------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

This restless world is just illusion
All at once, there’s a message from above
This senseless world of mass confusion ....
In the name of love
There’s a message from above ... (Sammy Hagar 2000)

Who is He to me?
My creator, my friend, my Lord, my saviour, my confidante, the only one that understands me, the real me.

He put everything together and keeps it running like it should.

He loves me so much He can't stand the thought of losing me so does all He can to keep me in His family.
He has saved me from a life of debauchery and straightened me out.

He changed me so much for the better, family members that couldn't stand to talk to me or be around me actually enjoy my company now.

The Godhead?
It's sort of like a family, with 3 members, all working together in complete harmony.
You have the Father, 'the head' of the family, He oversees everything with the Help of His Son, Jesus (our Saviour), and the Holy Spirit is the active agent in our lives, working with us and helping us change.

Not sure if this is what you meant, but, I have a limited background.

The way I figure it, they all work together like a well oiled machine, each doing their part in the creation and running of the universe.
There isn't any jealousy or rancor because one thinks the other has more than they do.
Each is different, but the same.

Thanks for your thoughts. I try to post my ideas about this later this weekend.

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

This restless world is just illusion
All at once, there’s a message from above
This senseless world of mass confusion ....
In the name of love
There’s a message from above ... (Sammy Hagar 2000)

We must know whom God is if we choose to worship him. Perhaps the Problem is we don't know how to explain it in a manner everyday people will understand. Well if that is the case then we do indeed need to discuss this, because that is what we have been called to do.

Matthew 28
18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Now how can we teach somebody about God if we can't explain who He is in a simple direct manner people can understand. I have seen many strong Christians flub up this simple task. I've done it myself. I think we all have. That is why I felt it was important we discuss the matter here. Have a place to practice. I don't know what anybody else in this Church out there is thinking, but for me, I know the hour is late. And I only have to get up form this seat and walk no more then 5 feet and look out the door to see a dying world out there that is perishing for want of the truth! The Simple Truth You and I have.

Are we like doctors with medication for our patients fatal condition refusing to administer it? I don't think so, (at least I hope not!). I think we are more like Doctors with a miracle cure that has the power, to cure a fatal disease, but we are unsure how to give the medicine to our patient in a way that it will work. What do we do? Go consult our Medical Training book! In this case the Bible! Make the issue secure in you mind, not just with "proof texts" but actually take the time to study and understand what those texts are saying. Absorb them into your heart so they become apart of your understanding. That is the only way we can explain it.

If nothing else I hope we come away from this topic understanding our need to be able to be real with people, and have the GOSPEL (GOOD NEWS) firmly planted in us in away that we can really share it.

Many times I think we know OF the GOSPEL but we don't Know it. That is we have a theological understanding that were not experiencing daily. Perhaps we do from time to time, like getting a glimpses here and there. But that is not a Daily walk.
We are human. And to often we walk around wrapped up in our own struggles, worrying about serious problems we have, financially, personally, family, emotionally and we completely lose Focus of GOD and what our objective is. Folks a Solider, who has lost His marching orders in the field is a well equipped time bomb! He wonders the jungle with allot a fire power and will only misuse it, unless he gets re-hooked up with his General. Where are you today? Are you like me sometimes, like the rest of us sometimes, carried away by serious issues, and struggles and before long, lost and floating further from God?

The Bible says this to us...
Matthew 6
32
(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
OH that we as bible believing Christians would take the bible seriously as the word of God and DO IT! That we would allow it to impact our lives and TRANSFORM US! What a Glorious piece of advise and counsel, and even promise Matthew 6 gives us.

Who is God? Hmmm. This question has been with me all week. There are a Thousand token answers I could give you. But I don't want to do that. I have given deep thought before I wrote down any of my thoughts.

Who God is, is to big of a question to give an absolute to. It is something I plan to keep experiencing for life! Not just this Short life, but everlasting life!

But I can tell you this... I Can tell you who GOD has been to me.

1) Forgiveness.

Folks I am a sinner. Worse, I am the Chief of sinners. I don't say that to be dramatic. Nor do I say that to make a strong impacted theological statement here. It is the sad bitter truth about me. One I tried to hide for years (even after being in the church!) Before I came to Christ I was Guilty. I was Heavy hearted. Running but not knowing from what. Numbing myself with anything that worked from alcohol, to food, television, sex to whatever I found. Slowly destroying myself and people I can into contact with without even knowing it. It was a sad, had an empty life (no matter how I tried to fill it), which I struggled to make look good, and fulfilled hoping if nobody saw the Flaws in my life they must not be there. Still even Now as a Believer, if I should wander outside of Christ, for mere seconds, I and grabbed and sucked back into (although to a lesser degree, unless I stay there) that trap. If I Go outside of Christ I am a SINNER. It is only Christ who gives me the transforming power, and I only get it when I STAY IN HIM. SO I need HIS Daily forgiveness every second of my life.

2) God is My HEALING POWER

I was born broken, I was defected merchandise. I did not perform as my designer had planned. Defective, short circuited, and tampered with. Years of Sin in my genetic pool rendered me SIN SICK at birth. And it did not take me long as a reasoning being to understand I was not right, well, or prosperous. Nor to realize the same about the cruel, hatred filled world I lived in. Everything I came into contact with was darkened, polluted, and some form of Poison until I Met my HEALER, Jesus Christ. God seeks to HEAL ME. RESTORE ME, to my original BLUE PRINT he based me on. God want to re-MAKE into who it was he had in mind for VINCENT MACISAAC truly to be. I don't know that. Imagion that? I don't know whom i am to be... But God does, and He IS REMAKING me into who I am to be. (so much for all those pop psychology books about finding yourself!) I am so far from the mark, I can't see it. But I know God is redesigning me daily, minute by minute, second by second into who it is He originally wanted me to be, who the true me is to be. He is taking that empty, broken, defective shell, I arrived into this world as and making me feel WHOLE and complete in HIM!

3) GOD IS LOVE- HE is all the Love I have ever known.

When I had hurt Him, When I had rejected Him, when I had publicly and personal mocked Him. When I had despised for that He stood for. When I had set myself up to push him out of my life, and to make war with Him. When I was his Enemy.

He SIMPLY Loved me.

Romans 5
10For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

How can it be??? You know not how many times I have asked myself that question. It has perplexed my mind like no other has. How is it possible? It is not logical. Nor is it able (by and human understanding or effort) Yet it is so! Oh what great Love! Oh How the kind of Love can change the Sinner! Call back the lost, reach the hurt!

God is LOVE. Is not just another catchy catch phrase. No it is not. It is Statement of what He does. HE Loves. And God does not Change!

1 John 4
8He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Hebrews 13
8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

No mater who we are, what we do, how bad we sin, God does not change, He still Loves us!
That my Friends is AMAZING! Beyond all understanding.

My most beloved family and Friends to me can not say the same. Who is this God, who chases after Sinners such as us? And when He finds us, does not punish but rather LOVE and TRANSFORM. OH WHAT A GOD!

GOD IS LOVE.
All Love in the world exists because of His direct or indirect influence on this world. I Can only show the level of LOVE I have learned at the feet of My God. The more time I spend there, the more able I become to love the unlovable. And Folks let me tell you, that is what God doesm, is LOVE the UNLOVABLE. And that is just what I am (trust me, you never saw my sinful side! haha). We are all unlovable. Yet God LOVES US and Transforms us into HIS IMAGE! Can you imagine that? I could spend weeks thinking about such a concept! But for now lets us just say PRAISE THE LORD, Oh my soul, PRAISE THE LORD!

In my next post I will talk more about the God Head. In the mean time, I welcome and look forward to all your thoughts.

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

This restless world is just illusion
All at once, there’s a message from above
This senseless world of mass confusion ....
In the name of love
There’s a message from above ... (Sammy Hagar 2000)

Whatever a person makes it. It's a very personal matter. It can be a "He" or a "She" or a "Thing" or a "Thought" - God is what we believe it is. It's relative. That's not to say there is no absolute truth about God. But God is whatever you make it.

Another question is - What does your God do for you personally?

What we think affects the way we live our lives, which in turn affects our inner being. Perfect peace should be the ultimate byproduct of our belief system. If peace avoids us we ought to question the basis of our beliefs.

How is that for a beginning point?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
What is God?

Whatever a person makes it. It's a very personal matter. It can be a "He" or a "She" or a "Thing" or a "Thought" - God is what we believe it is. It's relative. That's not to say there is no absolute truth about God. But God is whatever you make it.

---

Well I don't really agree with your view Mike. God is WHAT He is. What we want Him to be, or who we make HIm in our mind does not change who He is at all.

HE calls him the "I AM" and says he does not change. To me He is making a definite statement of His Being.

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

This restless world is just illusion
All at once, there’s a message from above
This senseless world of mass confusion ....
In the name of love
There’s a message from above ... (Sammy Hagar 2000)

Mankind may have his or her own individual thoughts on who God is, however, that doesn't make God the who that they may think He is. It's His Word that decides that.

What does God's own Word say about who He is?

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited May 03, 2001).]

quote:

---

What or who is God? Sounds simple huh? Well not so fast. How would you answer this question to a group of people who had never read the Bible and have very mixed up ideas about religion but are seekers?

---

Great idea. But when I attempted to answer this question you trashed it? How far back in this discussion of "What is God" should a person start? Can we assume the person we're witnessing to believes the Bible account of God?

Seems to me anybody can sit down and write a book that claims to be the sole authority on God. But does that make it so? Look at all the books that are like that - the Bible is just one of many. Who are we to say our Bible is the only right one? Does our saying it make it true?

And can we lead people to Jesus by first trying to get them to believe our Bible is the only one that tells the truth about God? Or can we begin as I suggested in an earlier post:

quote:

---

Another question is - What does your God do for you personally?

What we think affects the way we live our lives, which in turn affects our inner being. Perfect peace should be the ultimate byproduct of our belief system. If peace avoids us we ought to question the basis of our beliefs.

---

What would be the result of such introspective spiritual searching?

Who is God? He is the source of energy for a trillion suns. He creates intelligent, thinking life. And He becomes human, firstly to live a spotless life in our stead, but also because that's the only way created beings can comprehend and relate to His justice and mercy, and begin to fathom the surface depths of His unimaginable love for us. Who is God? Our Creator, who was present at our birth, and will preside at the moment of our death.
He is the source of all that is good in my life.
Alcoholics Anonymous sets a wonderful example regarding describing who God is, by referring to Him as a Higher Power. Once people can acknowledge a power outside of themselves, and permit that Power to change them, they begin to grow in the knowledge of how God works, and what He means to them.
Eternity won't be long enough to get to know who God is.

On one hand we have an infinite God, unexplainable, unapproachable.
On the other hand we have a God that was born just like us, lived in a human body and died a terible death that we might live a beautiful life, for eternity.

How do we explain this to someone that has no concept of who or what God is?
Very carefully.
We must be careful to not make Him so unapproachable they give up, nor should we make Him so like us they think of Him as just another man.

Hard? Yes.
Worth it?
Most definitely.
We need to pray and ask for guidance in presenting Him to others.

------------------
Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
But when I attempted to answer this question you trashed it?

---

Hi Mike,

Just a point of clarification. I am not trashing you position at all. But rather disagreeing with your statements. As a rational thinking being, I have the ability to do that, that is "disagree". And as a leader in this Sda-Today forum here, I have a moral obligation to God and fellow readers to point out what I see as Theological misgivings. I will be doing that here in this forum on a regular bases. There may even be times when I have to decide to edit a post or move it out (although that is not my desire or wish to have to do that ever). It is not meant to be mean, nor arbitrary, but rather protective and responsible. I am sorry if we won't always see things from the same viewpoint. That happens, and it is "OK". I still respect your right to have a different point of view, but please respect mine to protect the material shared here. I believe when I set a topic like this up God to a point holds me accountable by how it impacts people.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
Seems to me anybody can sit down and write a book that claims to be the sole authority on God. But does that make it so? Look at all the books that are like that - the Bible is just one of many. Who are we to say our Bible is the only right one? Does our saying it make it true?

---

That is a valid point Mike, One perhaps I will make a future topic here at some point. I hope you re-visit it with us then.
Just saying the Bible is true to a new Believe or seeker does not make it so to them. And "we" too often make that mistake. We need not only be a Student of the WORD but also a DEFENDER of the WORD. We must know it's history, how it came about, how the books were selected, why they are inspired, how the bible proves it's self. How science and history unfolding even today as we speak more and more proves the bible to be correct! How Prophecy have been 100% on the mark Thousands of years before it happened, and so forth and so forth.

Personally, I think the first place to start with a New believer or Seeker is not to hit them hard with the Bible, but rather give them a PERSONAL and heartfelt testimony of WHO GOD is to you. How JESUS has impacted your life, how He has changed you. What He Means to you, How He Loves you! When we LIFT JESUS UP all men will be drawn on to HIM. From this kind of testimony when can send people to the scriptures who are inspired to seek them and not being pried or pushed or beaten over the head with them. And there is indeed a difference.

Thank you for your thoughts Mike I hope this has helped you, as much as it has me, to write it.

Every Blessing from GOD to you!

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

This restless world is just illusion
All at once, there’s a message from above
This senseless world of mass confusion ....
In the name of love
There’s a message from above ... (Sammy Hagar 2000)

My father in heaven who I'm not worthy of His love.
He is the only one I can turn to in times of trouble. He knows before I speak.
When I'm sad or in trouble or pain I look up to heaven and feel strength for I know He is there watching on me.

When I was little I tried to describe what my Dad did at the lodge he went to. I was only five so I had to adlib a lot. I felt alot at a loss to really understand. So until God reveals information about Himself a lot of us have to adlib a lot ourselves.

We are little kids trying to understand the ultimate grownup. He probably does not say alot about personal details about Himself for good reasons.

we need to growup in His teachings & go home with Him and then let Him personally explain things ,as He sees we would benefit from the explanations.

------------------
Edward F Sutton

quote:

---

Originally posted by raintinkle:
Who is God?

My father in heaven who I'm not worthy of His love.
He is the only one I can turn to in times of trouble. He knows before I speak.
When I'm sad or in trouble or pain I look up to heaven and feel strength for I know He is there watching on me.

---

I really liked this. It was short, but right to the point! Thank you for sharing!

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

This restless world is just illusion
All at once, there’s a message from above
This senseless world of mass confusion ....
In the name of love
There’s a message from above ... (Sammy Hagar 2000)

Toward the end of the expedition things got pretty bad. The weather threatened to hurt alot of people. Indeed, several people had to be medically flown off the mountain. It made national news.

I prayed to God and asked a sign - if you want to show your self in a big way on this mountain impress someone to ask me to pray about it. About an hour later one of the guides came to me and asked me to speak to God about the weather. He said it was our only hope.

I prayed 7 times, like Elijah, and God chose not to change the weather. More people got hurt. The guide said later on - Guess the storm was too big for God. It left me speechless, and without a defense.

Who is God? To that guide God is smaller than a storm. Why didn't God chose to manifest His power and praise that day? I don't know. From my point of view, God blew it. But in my heart I know He did the right thing. However, I can't understand it just now. Some day it will make sense, perhaps not until I'm in heaven watching the rerun.

After that incident nobody was impressed with my God. They thought it was cute that I believe in the Bible God, but they are far from being impressed with Him. None of those stories about how Jesus calmed the wind tossed waves on Galilee had effect. Miracles and prophecies made no difference. Even my peace of mind was no better than the calm and patience the non-believers demonstrated during the good and bad times on the mountain. There was nothing that I could say or do that might have made a difference for the kingdom of heaven.

Was I frustrated? You bet. What would you have done?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
Was I frustrated? You bet. What would you have done?

---

A long time ago He used to do pretty spectacular things to get people's attention. In some cases it worked, and in others it didn't. The still small voice worked at times, and at other times He had to shake and shout.

I gotta wonder - why doesn't God select a place on earth where He can set up a camp for angels to heal people and do all kinds of amazing things to prove He's real and cares about people. Why does He have to resort to invisibility all the time, or at least most of the time? What would be wrong with a city of refuge where God can work out in the open through the angels, and nobody has to doubt whether it's real or not?

I'm not so sure this invisible thing is the best way to do things. And I don't completely buy the idea that we might love God for the wrong reasons if we could see His agencies face to face. That's not how it works for me and my family here on earth. Why would I love God less if I had visible proof of His existence? John said his hands handled the Lord and he believes. Why should we get less? Jesus is asking an awful lot when He expects people who have never heard of Him to believe in Him when they can't see Him.

Do you see my point?

I have a whole list of unanswered questions that are waiting on the back burner until I get to heaven. And I'm okay with that. And some of them are sources of frustration at times. Like why did God allow all those discrepancies in the Bible? Why did He allow my daughter to sleep so early in life? Why isn't He more visible at times? Etc.

And miracles? If we can so easily explain why God doesn't work many miracles today, how do we explain why Jesus performed so many during His time? Especially in light of what He said in John 10:38 - If you don't believe my words, at least believe my works.

Can we really say God does like to have to resort to miralces to stimulate people to love Him? That seems like a cop out to me. Isn't there a better answer? Like maybe no answer? Isn't that part of who God is? I mean, what we don't know about God is also who He is. Am I making sense?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
the weather. But my point is - Who is God? To me He's the kind hearted Father of the Bible, who has killed alot of people over the years. Strange, huh?

A long time ago He used to do pretty spectacular things to get people's attention. Do you see my point?

---

Depends how you want to look at it, or how you assign blame. I guess from one perspective God Kills everyone huh? Well we all die don't we?
NO the truth is God Kills Nobody, We kill ourselves, each and everyone of us when we Choose Sin! And we all have done that. If God puts us to rest early so be it, we still made our choices. I see no reason to Blame God After We choose Death He came to save us! Sounds like a great deal to me.

As for spectacular things well, I can tell you he has done so pretty awesome spectacular things in my life!!! And the things he has done in my life are every bit as spectacular and impressive to me as if he had parted the Red Sea, sent manna from Heaven, or brought the dead back to life for me. The more we have faith the more we see His spectacular Works.

Vince 8)

quote:

---

Originally posted by zyph:
(I have worked with a client who was convicted of a dreadful crime, and who said to me of his in-laws, who were Adventists, and who forgave him for the terrible trauma he had caused, that he wanted what they had. I was really moved by that.)

---

What a WONDERFUL testimony! Thanks for sharing that! To me this shows, Not only who God is, But Who we become when GOD IS IN US!
Again I say AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! PRAISE BE TO GOD!

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

This restless world is just illusion
All at once, there’s a message from above
This senseless world of mass confusion ....
In the name of love
There’s a message from above ... (Sammy Hagar 2000)

quote:

---

Originally posted by zyph:
The still, small work is like the still, small voice. And it is more effective than a magic show. (No disrespect intended.)
Zyph.

---

You Hit the nail on the head. Great Point!

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

This restless world is just illusion
All at once, there’s a message from above
This senseless world of mass confusion ....
In the name of love
There’s a message from above ... (Sammy Hagar 2000)

quote:

---

Originally posted by zyph:
[B I believe things will actually change during the latter rain, when individuals experience a revival, and God is able to work in and through them, in a way He can't at present. [/B]

---

I don't want this thread to go off the mark too much ok? So let's in this thread try to focus on who God is, and in miracles come up in that context, well then ok. We can have a future topic on both miracles and the Latter rain. Those are great future topics!

On that point (Who God is), as I said before, Miracles happen every day!!!! The Question is do we believe enough to see them?

My bible says...
Hebrews 13
8Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

It is us who Change.

------------------
~VINCE~ IN ~CHRIST~
SDA-TODAY moderator

This restless world is just illusion
All at once, there’s a message from above
This senseless world of mass confusion ....
In the name of love
There’s a message from above ... (Sammy Hagar 2000)

Can't the devil counterfeit peace of mind? I realize it can never be as good as the real thing, but does that make it totally bogus? I have quite a few friends and others I know of who are getting along very nicely in life without Jesus. And not just during the good times, but they do really well during the bad times as well. In nearly every respect they are as at peace with life as a good Christian.

I know we're quick to doubt the quality of their peace of mind, and rightly so, however I know them well enough to know that they really are experiencing some form of supernaturally blessed peace of mind. I believe their peace is of the devil to keep them away from Jesus and all, but try to tell them that. Especially when they see so many so called Christians missing the mark and falling all apart when the going gets tough.

So, who is God? God who allows the devil to bless some and curse others? How can we impress non-believers with the truth about life in and apart from Jesus? To me it seems like it's getting harder and harder to win people for the kingdom of God because there are so many other options that seem to work as good as genuine Christianity.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
What God is is who God is (sorry if that sounded trivial). Most of us are quick to cite the miracle of peace of mind as evidence our God is the true God. But isn't that rather subjective? And can it really be used as proof of who God is?

---

I don't Know About you... but I am NOT talking about "a peace of Mind" or emotional security. I am talking about genuine real miracles in my life. Occurrences that could only be divine interventions on many number of occasions.

Again, God is the SAME today as He was Yesterday and in biblical times, It is us who change. Have, faith, believe that and you will see 100% real miracles happen. That is MY testimony.

Vince