"Does God Destroy?"

or

“Who gave the order to kill the Amalekites?”

We do not have to overlook any words of the Bible when we are searching for the truth as it is in Jesus for there is a wonderful harmony among them all. We may have to say at times that we as individuals do not understand how certain thoughts fit in with others that we know of, but we can then plead with the Spirit of God to explain these to us. We should not put them aside “in faith”. Wrestling with the Lord (Jacob’s trouble) is one of the characteristics of the remnant church.

So let us look at this present problem.

1 Samuel 15:1-3
Samuel also said to Saul, “The LORD sent me to anoint you to be king over His people, over Israel: now therefore hearken you to the voice of the words of the LORD. Thus says the LORD of hosts, ‘I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass”.”

There is no doubt that the LORD of hosts gave the order. That is not the problem. The real question is: WHY did He give such a command.

First, let us establish that it was Jesus Christ, the Son of God who gave that order. In the Scripture it is noted that God the Father has not appeared to men because His majesty is such that we would die if we met Him. This is why we have a Mediator.

John 1:18.
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared [or revealed] Him.

The God of the Old Testament who appeared to men and women was ALWAYS the Son of God, commonly known as the LORD, as the apostle John has just told us.

So it was Jesus who gave the order to kill men, women, children, babies and animals. WHY?

1. Let us not confuse the issue by using man’s way of interpretation. It is true that the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” does refer to murder. This is the crime of taking another’s life when that person protests against it. It is to deprive the person of the freedom to live. It is an intentional act as compared with an accidental action which causes death. It is NOT the act of love [agape], for such love NEVER fails. 1 Corinthians 13:8. Therefore for God to kill sinners would be murder. Only men can make such a distinction.

The commandment is still correct when it reads “Thou shalt not kill”.

The ultimate “punishment” that most of us see in the Bible is death, the second death, therefore it is considered to be a terrible thing and should not be thought of as “simply the removal of life”.

2. It is true that at times it appears that God has initiated the action but we require a more careful search of the word before we accept that. When the “spies” were sent into Canaan we have this word.

Numbers 13:1-3
And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, “Send you men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give to the children of Israel: of every tribe of their fathers shall you send a man, every one a ruler among them.” And Moses by the commandment of the LORD sent them from the wilderness of Paran: all those men were heads of the children of Israel.

But we also have this one:

Deuteronomy 1:22-23
[Moses said] And YOU came near to me every one of you, and said, “WE will send men before us, and they shall search us out the land, and bring us word again by what way we must go up, and into what cities we shall come.” And the saying pleased me well: and I took twelve men of you, one of a tribe:

Here we have an instance of the people wanting something and the LORD God agreeing to their request and specifying who should go. Rulers or nobles! He who had promised them the land, and told them that they would have no problem acquiring it, found that His people were querying His word. But He did not rebuke them and allowed them their own way, which was to become “spies”, an underhand method of working, not the action of a righteous person. It was the same principle when Saul was chosen as king of Israel. Through His prophet Jesus warned them not to have a earthly king in His place, and what would happen if they persisted. But when they absolutely rejected His advice and claimed the right to be like the other nations, He went along with them. 1 Samuel 10:19.

This is the principle at the heart of the question.

The Son of God allows men and women to have their own way when they are determined to do so, and then tells them the best way for all concerned to accomplish their desire. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God! You may get what you want.

3. When our Saviour accepts the blame for the results of sin He is stating a fact, not bearing false witness. He who created the universe has put in place the laws and principles by which creation lives. It is these laws and principles which are based on His own character that allow sin to exist through the freedom of choice. He accepts the guilt because He is guilty of being sovereign and will not take away that most precious gift He has given us. Rather than do that, He came to bear the punishment of our actions for us.

We need a much closer look at the story of Job for us to understand this point. Job himself declares that he was in the wrong and that Christ was right in withdrawing from him (or more correctly, in not being able to get to him past his protestations of innocence). Elihu, the fourth friend of Job, was the only one who spoke correctly of God in the whole story. Chapters 32-37. Towards the end of the book Job confesses

Job 42:5-6
I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear: but now my eye sees You. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

He did not consider himself the spotless innocent at that point.

4. We should beware of limiting the Spirit to a few solutions when we have a problem in the Bible. Jesus put a question to the people of His time one day which made them realise this.

Mark 12:34-37
And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no man after that dared ask Him any question.

And Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, “How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David? For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, ‘The LORD said to my Lord, Sit You on My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool.’ David therefore himself calls Him Lord; and whence is He then his son?” And the common people heard Him gladly.

There are always many other ways of looking at a problem through God’s eyes and we need the “eyesalve” to see them.

5. When reading statements in the Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy it is impossible to comprehend them correctly without the right base. When Jesus told His disciples that they would have to eat His body and drink His blood many of them could not understand what He was saying. But, instead of asking the Spirit for the deeper meaning, they gave up on Him and clung to their preconceived understanding.

The problem of Pharaoh is as old as history. Romans 9. Did God do it to him, or did Pharaoh do it to himself? It is admitted in the query paper that “Pharaoh himself chose the way” so we have no argument here. It is not necessary to take one’s own life to be one’s own executioner, another agent can do it as the writer admits. In this case the question is, Who? Jesus the restorer, or Satan the destroyer?

The statement from PP 392 is clear enough but it depends where WE put the emphasis.

The illustration of a doctor removing a lung to save the life of the patient is a good one when looked at carefully. We applaud the doctor when he “prunes” or “cleanses” by removing the lung, but would frown upon him if he chose to kill his client instead as a hopeless case. However, should the patient die from the disease despite the doctor’s best efforts to save him then we understand.

Jesus told us that it is good to lose hand or eye rather than the whole life. Matthew 5:30. The Bible clearly teaches that God as a doctor attempts to remove the “disobedience” from His patients, but often fails because it must be with their consent. Exodus 15:26.

In the case of Jericho, we can read

Joshua 6:2-3
And the LORD said to Joshua, “See, I have given into your hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour. And you shall compass the city, all you men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shall you do six days.”

Joshua was promised the fighting men as his legitimate prey but no mention was made of the rest of the inhabitants. However, we find a few verses later that Joshua adds to the word of God and sets up the horrible picture of God as child-killer.

Joshua 6:16-18
And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said to the people, “Shout; for the LORD has given you the city. And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent. And you, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest you make yourselves accursed, when you take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it.”

The detailed description of how they were to conquer the city which was given by the Captain of the Lord’s host should have made the people stop and think but their blood lust put paid to that. From that time on, Jesus had to work with a people who thought that He wanted all His enemies dead, even though one of the greatest commandments is to love your enemy.

Matthew 5:43-45
You have heard that it has been said, “You shall love your neighbour, and hate your enemy.” BUT I SAY to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; that you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for He makes His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

This understanding of the fall of Jericho also teaches that He has favourites, for Rahab and her family were not killed.

And finally, when two of His disciples misunderstood one of the great stories of the Bible Jesus said,

Luke 9:54-56
And when His disciples James and John saw this [the rejection of Christ by the Samaritans], they said, “Lord, will You that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elijah did?” But He turned, and rebuked them, and said, “You know not what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.”

Jesus understood the correct interpretation of that story in 2 Kings chapter 1 while many of us have failed to see it. There are two “spirits” and it depends entirely on which we are following how we read the Bible. The god Baal has always had a fascination for the people of Israel.

On an earlier occasion, when Elijah decided that the false prophets at Mt. Carmel should be killed and had his LORD’s sad agreement, “the anger of the people had already been aroused” and “they were ready to obey”. 1 Kings 18; PK 154. But by the time of the second incident, he had learned his lesson.

To sum up:

Jesus gave the order(s) to annihilate and destroy when His people wanted it so and He could not dissuade them from their purpose. Therefore He gave them clearcut commands which were best for all concerned. Not just His people, but also for their victims.

Very interesting, as I always thought God had told them to kill men, women, children, oxen, etc.

What was God's response to King Saul via the prophet Samuel when King Saul failed to kill or destroy men, women, children, oxen, etc.??? They not only brought back the king alive, but also came back with some of the livestock alive.

I never thought of it as God giving such a command to satisfy their blood-thirstyness.

I will need to dig into that for myself. I hope others will to and share their thoughts here, after all this is where we can also discuss and messages/sermons we may share here in this particular forum.

My understanding is that God more directly led His people in the Old Testament times, especially the Children of Israel at the time of their wanderings in the wilderness after escaping Egypt. This is a complex subject and we are as ants compared to the mind of God. We can speculate about how God does, or does not, order the killing of His enemies, but we may never know for certain until we are in heaven during the Millenium, which is the time for studying the workings of God in regard to sin and sinners. First, I believe God is just and merciful. I also believe He is serious about His law for the good of the universe. For now, I trust that His workings are right, and will understand why, later, when I have the thousand years to pore over it.

The title of this topic is Does God Destroy?

In the Adult Sabbath School Bible Study Guide for August 18th, it says ib 2 Ch. 21:14 quoted below that the LORD will "smite" or "strike."

quote:

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2Ch 21:14 Behold, with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods:

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Isn't the LORD Himself doing the smiting or striking here?