Ikan, you confuse the underlying concept with the outward expression of such, and it is completely unwarranted to remove Catholicism from a discussion of Christianity and limiting comments to "Protestantism in general and Adventism in particular". This only tilts the playing field in your favor, ignoring historical facts and theological dogma which is a vital part of the discussion. It's like saying "What is 12, and don't tell me it is 6 + 6, or 3 x 4."

True, the Adventist church has not engaged in any of the above mentioned activities, but then they have only been around since the mid 19th century. Give them time. (This is not a slam against Adventism, just a lucid recognition that the SDA church is made up of humans.)

Notwithstanding, we digress.

Claudia
Like Ikan, you have missed the point. (And when did "not judging" become "politically correct" and when did you flip-flop on the issue? Whatever happened to "judge not"?)

There are two errors here:

1. The inability to stay on topic and actually address the question raised. The topic is actually "What are some of the things that Muslims believe" If one would like to judge those beliefs another topic can be started (But not by me; I'm not a member.) However, I sense that since we don't know what Muslims believe, we pick one difference and hammer it to death. This does not surprise me, since from the postings on the topic of "What must one believe to be called a Christian", We don't really know that answer, either. Oh, yes, one must BELIEVE. But believe what, exactly?

2. The second error is the tendency to compare what "I" teach with what "you" do. (This is not a personal attack) Christianity teaches thus; Muslims do so-and-so. In any fair discussion (there's that nasty little concept again, Ikan) one must compare teachings with teachings, doing with doing. Secondly, in terms of the doing, are these doings the direct result of commands or teachings of the group. We can, and often do, compare what Christianity teaches with what some Muslims do. And Muslims can, and often do, compare what Islam teaches with what some Christians do.

Since none of us actually do what the teachings say, the only real comparison is doctrine with doctrine, and this thread is attempting to find out (evidently unsuccessfully) what Islamic doctrine is.

One difference between true Christianity (not Catholicism) and all other religions, including Islam, is that Christianity is based on the attempt on God's part to reach sinful man. All other religions consist in man's attempt to reach God.

The 5 Pillars of Faith of Islam are:

1.Testimony that there is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his Messenger
2. The performance of prayers correctly
3.Payment of Zakit
4,Fasting month of Ramadan
5.Pilgrimage to the House (Makka) for him who can find a way thither

I thought that an answer from a unashamed Muslim of openess and honesty was overdue on this subject of Muslims beliefs , so I went to my good friend and nextdoor neighbour, Haji.
We discussed from the book "The Rites of Hajj and Umra and The Visit To Al Madina", printed and approved for pilgrims who speak English by The Academy of Islam Research in Mecca and His Royal Highness, the King of Saudi Arabia.
Haji, wishes to let me write for him that the posts under his name by me above are the Pillars of belief of all Muslims, as any 12 year old muslim boy or girl well knows.
He has full knowledge that I am posting for him on a christian forum, and asks that i come to him for any further questions.
So now we have a genuine Muslim, one who is glad to say "I am a Muslim".
I have great respect for him and his family.

It is good to hear their beliefs from a person who is one.

The site Claudia provided should also be of good assistance.

Yes, that's true, Daryl. Nothing clears the clouds like honest answers from candid men.
Any qustions about Haji's statement of what the Muslim's core beliefs are?

(An interesting footnote: The lay-out of mosques, one central dome and 4 towers or minarets, is synbolic of these 5 tenants of faith.)

Definitions:

"Zakit" is a type of tithe, but not a flat 10%. It's based on one's possessions and ability to pay. There are tithe collectors who go out and collect the zakit, once a year.

"Ramadan" is the mandatory fasting from sunrise to sunset for one month a year. No food or water is allowed and no smoking or sex and many other ""fasting rules", depending on your own sect's traditions.

"Makka" is Arabic spelling for Mecca, the holy centre of Islam in Saudi Arabia, the heart of Islam.

The obligatory month long fast has begun. Ramadan is one of the pillars of Islamic faith.
If there are any interested here, I will be glad to discuss this ritual.

[ October 17, 2004, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: Ikan ]

I am not clear how this whole idea about jehovah being Alla came up.Its widely believed like that in India too.Could you also explain how we say that Moslems believe in Mary.
jasmin