Interesting ideas here. We are encouraged in the Bible to uplift and support each other, but there will also come a time when we will be unable to rely on any individual person here on earth. We must be tied in to God! There will be a time when our spouses, our children, our friends will be unreliable, in fact they will be the ones to betray us, as Judas betrayed Jesus.

I think lonely times are times when you can draw closer to God. I know that human fellowship is important too, though. Otherwise, why would we be told 'where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them" ?

Hello Claudia, Sarah, and Piper

These are all such excellent contributions to this subject...all things I had in mind but didn't know where to begin.

Thankyou so much for your replies.

With every usual form of earthly support cut off; it is for most, a much different ball game.

All too often, we reject this garden experience as one with too many weeds. Or, we get there, into the garden alone, and we try to start pulling the weeds out ourselves! (and often, one by one). The trouble starts though, when the very next day, after pulling out one weed, a couple more spring up to take it's place.

Ever get "tired of it all," and want to pack in the Bibles in favor of an easier route?

I have found, personally, that God's whole purpose in getting us to the place where we are in the garden alone, is so that we may learn COMPLETE DEPENDENCE UPON CHRIST.

There is no other way to learn this lesson, but by having everything fall out from under your feet...your money, your job, your health, you name it. But when we are in a narrow confine, how many of us turn our backs on Christ and deny Him by our thoughts or actions?

How many of us would actually choose to go to the Garden alone, if we had a choice? What might it mean if we were to choose, or not choose this experience? Do we even have a choice, or does God just pick our name out of His cosmic hat, and say: "OK David...time for a little fire under your feet." If this were the case, I wonder how many would come to watch me "burn?" Would others know about my trials in the garden, under this kind of circumstance?

I would be interested to hear ideas on this question.

Hi David,

You asked:

"How many of us would actually choose to go to the Garden alone, if we had a choice? What might it mean if we were to choose, or not choose this experience? Do we even have a choice, or does God just pick our name out of His cosmic hat, and say: "OK David...time for a little fire under your feet." If this were the case, I wonder how many would come to watch me "burn?" Would others know about my trials in the garden, under this kind of circumstance?"

I dont think we have a choice of whether to go to the garden alone... sometimes. Of course you can always be alone if you want to ..but I think God watches our progress and sees if we need refining in some area of our characters... and its at those times that he might let us have to be alone.

I wouldnt have chosen to be alone in the past but lots of times now I would. Its just that it seems God has taught me so much more during those times. Remember that place in Minsitry of healing (I think) where it says that God will put us in a cage like a bird where its dark... the cage is covered,,, so we can "learn the song?" (I dont recall the exact quote but I hope you know what I mean). I think you cant really "hear God" and what He is trying to get across to you unless you are alone.

Sometimes people around you will make you think "well I seem to be just as good as they are, so Im doing ok". Sometimes their complacency makes it rub off on you. Sometimes their well-meaning "comfort" might injure you if what you really need is to be told whats wrong with you that needs correcting.

You know what? There are also a whole lot of things that I found out God gave me the ability to do... with His strength of course, ..that I would of never thought I could of done, unless I had to "walk through the valley of darkness" a few times.

I dont know about you but I grew up in a home that was basically loveless. So all the time I was growing up I longed for kindness and love.. etc... someone to lean on basically. This lasted a long time, way into my twenties... because I never had any. So I went around kind of always "looking" for someone to lean on... spiritually, especially. Because I felt like I couldnt do anything myself. (I was also made to feel like I was "stupid" and couldnt do anything when I was little).

Then when I got older God had to allow me to go through lots of bad stuff, and being alone made me have to draw upon gifts that God had given me but I didnt know I had... abilities to do things I never knew I could do... and things like that. If I always had someone to lean on, I'd never of learned those things.

I think that maybe God might deal with different people in different ways when it comes to this subject. Like maybe some people need more of the "alone" thing than others do..

Now Im sitting here wondering if Im even talking about the same stuff that you are or if Im on a whole different topic

As far as the last part of your question goes:

"If this were the case, I wonder how many would come to watch me "burn?" Would others know about my trials in the garden, under this kind of circumstance?"

I really dont understand what you are asking. Could you try to explain more?

Claudia

I believe we have a choice as to whether or not we are in the Garden alone. I believe we are never alone. Was Jesus truly in the Garden alone (not counting the sleeping disciples)? No. We must also remember that God promises to never tempt us beyond that which we can stand - Jesus had all He could stand and because His human friends were not there to comfort Him, God sent Him an Angel, one just waiting on tip toes, with bated breath to reach down and comfort the Saviour! Was there ever truly one moment of Jesus' life that He was completely alone? NO *(not until the moment before His death) !! Were there moments that He FELT completely alone? YES. Never for a moment are we to believe that we are abandoned by God. Never for a moment are we to rely on our feelings and decide that God has left us. Jesus suffered separation from His Father, and it killed Him. Just as it will us if God were to truly abandon us.

Does everyone need to pass through a Garden experience? Does every single person need to learn the hard way? Is it possible that some could learn from others mistakes and avoid the Gardens?

Sarah

I really appreciated your closing question; not only do they ask questions; but they make important statements of facts.

Claudia;

Here is the paragraph you were referring to. I will comment afterwards:

Quote:

"How many of us would actually choose to go to the Garden alone, if we had a choice? What might it mean if we were to choose, or not choose this experience? Do we even have a choice, or does God just pick our name out of His cosmic hat, and say: "OK David...time for a little fire under your feet." If this were the case, I wonder how many would come to watch me "burn?" Would others know about my trials in the garden, under this kind of circumstance?"
- end of quote

When I said "I wonder how many would come to watch me burn;" it was a cryptic stab at the fact that, like the disciples who fell asleep on Jesus, during His garden experience; too often, our usual sources of human comfort either are not there, or they take a very passive role, if they are present, and they somehow let us down during the really tough ones.

Jesus found out what it was like to be neglected by fellow "church members;" yet, as Sarah has so aptly pointed out here, Jesus was not alone, when He went to the Garden alone.

To me; it is very helpful to not palliate the pain that is experienced in our Garden experiences. I have found it best to look at the aspect of divinely appointed experiences, when we are in the Garden alone.

In other words; these experiences make more sense to me from a great controversy point of view.

Do we, as individuals really need to look at all of our Garden experiences as "God's workmen, whereby we are fitted for heaven?" Is it "OK" to just not know all that stuff, and say of an experience: "Ouch! That really hurt!" "And this is what happened between me and God during all that pain?"

David, we may have many earthly ties broken, or even considerably stretched, by distance,by circumstances,& by the busy lives we live. We may feel that those we love most on earth at times forget us, when they do not keep in touch. And, we feel alone. But, no we are not alone, for He has promised "I will never leave you nor forsake you." And, "LO, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world." That is not always easy to remember, for we crave a human hand to hold, and to hear a human voice of encouragement, for God created us with that need. But, often, when we think no one is thinking of us or praying for us, it is not true. I was away from the church for a few years, and one thing that really influenced my coming back and into an even deeper dedication and walk with our Lord, was when a dear sister in church, speaking of her husband, told me, "he calls your name in prayer each morning." We do not know how many are praying for each of us, and how many times our names are lifted up in prayer. So, we are not alone, where our fellow brothers and sisters are concerned, when we are praying for each other. I am praying for you, David, and Daryl, and all the moderators, and all who have a part on this board.

Thankyou Dora

Your post was very meaningful..."He calls you in prayer each morning..." That will keep me thinking for a while.

I have many questions in this topic area.

Here is one of them.

The Bible says in Rom.8:7, (I hope it's verse 7), that "the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God; neither indeed can be."

What role, might "going to the Garden alone," play in this line of Scripture?

This is a very important question, of which I intend to share more of later.

My internet time is up for the day! Bye!

David, this may not be what you are thinking at all, but, "the carnal mind," if it stayed in that state, seems to me, would not CHOOSE to be alone in the garden with Christ. Being alone with someone loved indicates close and imtimate fellowship. Someone in the "carnal mind state" wouldn't feel comfortable there, nor could Jesus promote fellowship with them, for how could the Holy Spirit communicate, unless or until the mind is changed to a "Spirit Filled Mind?"

To go to the garden in harmony with God's request requires the mind of Christ. The mind of Christ comes by the gift of His abiding presence and is analgous to the Shekinak in the sanctuary of our hearts. If you want to go the garden and Jesus is calling you, and then you go, you must therefore be in harmony with Him. If you are in harmony with Him then you can not be alone. Jesus, and His people are with you always, even though seperated by distance, yet still with you.