I think of what Ellen White wrote years ago about New York. Manhattan has been closed, locked down; you cannot get in or out. The White House has been evactuated.

WTC was a hub of communications and right now I cannot get any of the majoy news I'll post more later. It seems that America is under seige. A national emergency? The portent is ominous.

------------------
Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda

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Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda

It is obviously a terrorist attack. How quickly is Jesus coming? Isn't it time we stopped to evaluate our lives and ask what is really important to us? How many of those who died today were ready to go to judgment? Were they unready because of what we have failed to do to spread the 3 angels' message?

------------------
Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda

quote:

---

God has not executed His wrath without mercy. His hand is stretched out still. His message must be given in Greater New York. The people must be shown how it is possible for God, by a touch of His hand, to destroy the property they have gathered together against the last great day.--3MR 310, 311 (1902). {LDE 112.3}

I have no light in particular in regard to what is coming on New York, only that I know that one day the great buildings there will be thrown down by the turning and overturning of God's power. . . . Death will come in all places. This is why I am so anxious for our cities to be warned.--RH July 5, 1906. {LDE 112.4}

On one occasion, when in New York City, I was in the night season called upon to behold buildings rising story after story toward heaven. These buildings were warranted to be fireproof, and they were erected to glorify their owners and builders. . . . {LDE 113.1}

The scene that next passed before me was an alarm of fire. Men looked at the lofty and supposedly fireproof buildings and said: "They are perfectly safe." But these buildings were consumed as if made of pitch. The fire engines could do nothing to stay the destruction. The firemen were unable to operate the engines.--9T 12, 13 (1909). {LDE 113.2}

I have seen the most costly structures in buildings erected and supposed to be fireproof, and just as Sodom perished in the flames of God's vengeance so will these proud structures become ashes. . . . The flattering monuments of men's greatness will be crumbled in the dust even before the last great destruction comes upon the world.--3SM 418 (1901). {LDE 111.6}

God is withdrawing His Spirit from the wicked cities, which have become as the cities of the antediluvian world and as Sodom and Gomorrah. . . . Costly mansions, marvels of architectural skill, will be destroyed without a moment's notice when the Lord sees that the owners have passed the boundaries of forgiveness. The destruction by fire of the stately buildings, supposed to be fireproof, is an illustration of how in a short time earth's architecture will lie in ruins.--TDG 152 (1902). {LDE 112.1}

Men will continue to erect expensive buildings, costing millions of money. Special attention will be called to their architectural beauty and the firmness and solidity with which they are constructed, but the Lord has instructed me that despite the unusual firmness and expensive display, these buildings will share the fate of the temple in Jerusalem.--5BC 1098 (1906). {LDE 112.2}

---

It is quite long. Again this is not a law passed by Congress, but a "law" written by the President. Everything in capital letters is my supplied emphasis. I copied the entire order to my word processor and it is 26 pages long. This order has not been superceeded or revoked. Bill Clinton has used the power of executive order to take actions such as bombing Afganistan thereby bypassing congress.

Notice under Section 101 what can constitute a national emergency.

quote:

---

NOW, THEREFORE, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, and pursuant to Reorganization Plan No. 1 of 1958 (72 Stat. 1799), the National Security Act of 1947, as amended, the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended, and the Federal Civil Defense Act, as amended, it is hereby ordered that the responsibilities of the Federal departments and agencies in national security emergencies shall be as follows:

PART 1-Preamble

Section 101. National Security Emergency Preparedness Policy.

(a) The policy of the United States is to have sufficient capabilities at all levels of government to meet essential defense and civilian needs during any national security emergency. A national security emergency is any occurrence, including natural diaster, military attack, technological emergency, or other emergency, that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States. Policy for national security emergency preparedness shall be established by the President. Pursuant to the President's direction, the National Security Council shall be responsible for developing and administering such policy. All national security emergency preparedness activities shall be consistent with the Constitution and laws of the United States and with preservation of the constitutional government of the United States.

--------------

Sec. 202. Continuity of Government. The head of each Federal department and agency shall ensure the continuity of essential functions in any national security emergency by providing for: succession to office and emergency delegation of authority in accordance with applicable law; safekeeping of essential resources, facilities, and records; and establishment of emergency operating capabilities.

Sec. 204. Protection qf Essential Resources and Facilities. The head of each Federal department and agency, within assigned areas of responsibility, shall:

(1) Identify facilities and resources, both government and private, essential to the national defense and national welfare, and assess their vulnerabilities and develop strategies, plans, and programs to provide for the security of such facilities and resources, and to avoid or minimize disruptions of essential services during any national security emergency;

--------------

Sec. 1201. Lead Responsibilities. In addition to the applicable responsibilities covered in Parts 1 and 2, the Secretary of Labor shall:

(1) Develop plans and issue guidance to ensure effective use of civilian workforce resources during national security emergencies. Such plans shall include, but not necessarily be limited to:

(a) Priorities and allocations, recruitment, referral, training, employment stabilization including appeals procedures, use assessment, and determination of critical skill categories; and

(b) Programs for increasing the availability of critical workforce skills and occupations;

--------------

Sec. 1401. Lead Responsibilities. In addition to the applicable responsibilities covered in Parts 1 and 2, the Secretary of Transportation shall:

(1) Develop plans to promulgate and manage overall national policies, programs, procedures, and systems to meet essential civil and military transportation needs in national security emergencies;

(2) Be prepared to provide direction to all modes of civil transportation in national security emergencies, including air, surface, water, pipelines, and public storage and warehousing, to the extent such responsibility is vested in the Secretary of Transportation. This direction may include:

(a) Implementation of priorities for all transportation resource requirements for service, equipment, facilities, and systems;

(b) Allocation of transportation resource capacity; and

(c) Emergency management and CONTROL of civil transportation resources and systems, including privately owned automobiles, urban mass transit, intermodal transportation systems, the National Railroad Passenger Corporation and the SL Lawrence Seaway Development Corporation

---

[This message has been edited by Linda Sutton (edited September 11, 2001).]

Wouldn't be the first time someone has done something to get what they want.
And until Jesus comes back, it won't be the last, either.
My $0.02

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Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8

Thank you for those quotations, Linda. I'll take them for tonite's prayer meeting.

About those responsible: I believe that September 11 was the date of that crisis in the Munich Olympics. The Palestinian Black September movement was born there. I don't know why the networks aren't picking up on this connection.

Another person noted that some agreement at Camp David that the Arabs though favoured Israel was signed on Sept. 11--that's why Camp David may have been a target.

We'll be watching and praying.

------------------
The great ships are safe in the harbour, but that's not what they were built for.

The American news services said that the Canadian airports had also shut down. America will be reeling from this for a long time.

At the present time emergency personnel are unable to get into the collapsed towers due to out-of-control fires and the danger of collapsing buildings. The nation is on a state of high alert. Some of the things that have been said and done make me think that the EO mentioned may have been implemented, or at least partially implemented. Our borders are esentially locked downed.

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Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda

------------------
Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8

“Even in the face of this disaster, we cannot just throw our arms up in despair,” said Pastor Jan Paulsen, president of the Adventist world church, at a special meeting today with staff at the church’s world headquarters.

Speaking with ANN this afternoon, Larry Colburn, assistant to the world church president, said Adventists can respond to today’s events in a number of ways:

1. Appeal for prayer

“We are a praying people,” says Colburn. “Already, Adventists around the world, from Kenya to Australia, Ivory Coast to Poland, are reporting their solidarity in prayer for those affected by this tragedy.”

Local Adventist congregations are invited, wherever possible, to open their churches as places of prayer for their communities, reaching out to all those in need of pastoral care and to those who want to participate in a prayer vigil. “This is a time for coming together, for joining with all people of faith in prayer ministry,” says Colburn.

“Let’s pray both for the world’s leaders, who are in need of Divine guidance,” says Colburn, “and for the many thousands impacted by this tragedy, that they will feel the compassionate touch of our Lord, Jesus Christ.”

2. Financial Contributions

The Adventist Development and Relief Agency International is receiving donations on behalf of a concerted Adventist response to this disaster. Those who want to donate can call, in the United States: 1-800-424-ADRA (2372). Outside the United States, call: (301) 680-6049 within business hours (U.S. eastern daylight saving time).

3. Blood Donations

In the United States, Adventist Church members can respond to the national call for blood donors. News agencies are reporting the urgent need for blood supplies, and United States residents can participate by contacting their local blood collection facility.

Pastor Mark Finley was being interviewed live over the phone. He read parts of the SOP quote that Sister Linda posted about the tall buildings in New York.

The Canadian airports did not close down, however, flights were cancelled to receive the redirected planes. Moncton, NB was one of those cities as was also Halifax, NS. Also the closed down air force base in Gander, Nfld had been reactivated to receive both commercially redirected planes as well as US fighters jets.

The border between Maine, USA and New Brunswick, Canada are still open, however, questions are being asked and every vehicle is being extensively searched.

This is definitely a sign of the times.

This should also be a wake-up call for us all.

_________________________
In His Love,Mercy & Grace

Daryl

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited September 11, 2001).]

Angie

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Blessed is he... whose hope is in the
Lord his God. Psalms 146:5

Angie

quote:

---

On Sept. 11, 1972, the troubled Munich Summer Olympics, also remembered as "the Olympics of Terror," ended. For 21 hours under live television cameras, hooded gunmen of the Palestinian faction "Black September" held Israeli athletes hostage, killing 11 of them during a botched getaway and airport firefight with German antiterrorism squads.

---

quote:

---

On Sept. 11, 1922, a British mandate was proclaimed in Palestine, despite Arab protests. It lasted until 1948, after the United Nations authorized a partition of the territory and the state of Israel was established.

---

This morning they have pulled a few people alive out of the wreckage of the collapsed buildings in New York, but officials doubt that anyone living will be pulled out of the Pentagon. They expect about 200 dead there, according to Pentagon officials. In New York, they expect thousands are dead.

Jesus wants to come back. He wants the senseless killing to stop. But He can't return until His character has been perfectly reproduced in His people. He can't come back until every living person on earth has been told the good news of His soon return.

Even as anger rages, and calls for retaliation go out, and the president calls this an act of war (which it was), I have to tell myself that Jesus died even for those evil men who are so bent on destroying life. Even they must hear the good news. They may not accept it, but they are supposed to hear it. Do I think the perpetrators of these crimes and those who help them should escape punishment? No. Justice must be served.

Lord, we want to go home. Give us the courage to put aside those things in our lives that are unimportant and submit totally to you. Prepare us for doing the work you have given us to do.

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Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda

------------------
The great ships are safe in the harbour, but that's not what they were built for.

OTTAWA - As many as 500 Canadians may have been killed in Tuesday's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, foreign affairs officials said yesterday.

Officials late yesterday offered their first estimate of Canadian victims, saying the range could be anywhere from 60-500.

``It is an estimate, but we don't believe it will go beyond 500,'' said spokesperson Oussamah Tamim.

Foreign Affairs Minister John Manley said his department knows for certain of 50 missing Canadians who can be identified.

``There are numbers of other Canadians who we cannot get in touch with,'' Tamim said.

The estimate also has to be broad because Canadians living in or visiting the U.S. are not required to register at consulates.

The figure is based on the thousands of calls received at a toll-free number from Canadians seeking information on relatives and friends working at or visiting New York's World Trade Center or working at the Pentagon, as well as information provided by the airlines involved in four hijackings Tuesday.

Two Canadians died on the American Airlines Boeing 757 that crashed into the Pentagon Tuesday morning.

One confirmed fatality is that of Garnet (Ace) Bailey, a former National Hockey League player who was a scout for the Los Angeles Kings. The name of the second Canadian aboard the flight has not been released.

Those seeking information on Canadians in New York or Washington can call 1-800-387-3124 or in the Ottawa area the local number 943-1055, or e-mail sos@dfait-maeci.gc.ca.

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The great ships are safe in the harbour, but that's not what they were built for.

Pastor Jan Paulsen, president of the world church, Pastor Don Schneider, president of the church in North America, and Adventist evangelist Mark Finley, will each speak during the program, entitled "A Seventh-day Adventist Response to the U.S.Tragedy."

"In times like these, people feel a need to come together--to reflect, to console each other, and to call on God for guidance and comfort," says Larry Colburn, assistant to the Adventist Church president. "Through this satellite program, we want to help draw together as many as possible of our 12 million-member international family and all others who want to participate, for prayer and mutual support."

The program will be broadcast by Adventist Global Communication Network (AGCN) and its regional networks around the world, going first to the Pacific Rim, followed by Africa, Europe, and Inter and South America. Each of these regions will receive the signal Friday evening, local time.

In North America the program will be broadcast at 9:30 p.m. Eastern time Friday, September 14, by Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN). Adventist Communication Network (ACN) will broadcast the program to downlink sites at 8:00 a.m. Eastern time Sabbath (Saturday), September 15.

There are about 12,000 Adventist satellite downlink sites internationally, predominantly at local churches. For specific information for your region go to www.agcn.org. The program can also be viewed on 3ABN’s Web site at www.3abn.org.

What do you suppose the USA response will be?

_________________________
In His Love,Mercy & Grace

Daryl

Anger, frustration and a desire for vengeance, not justice, will make it worse before it gets better.

As an aside, they found several alive in the rubble and after the rubble was moved aside, they walked out on their own.

they just reported that thye have had a few more cell phone calls from survivors and they are hearing a rythmic pounding from the rubble.
May God get them to the survivors before they die.

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Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8

[This message has been edited by Claudia Burrow (edited September 14, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Claudia Burrow (edited September 14, 2001).]

There's nothing that drives the economy up more than a war on foreign soil, so that may be the way things go.

A comment I heard on one radio station was that when WWII came along, victory was not achieved by going after the madman in charge and a few of his decieved followers. Cities had to be carpet-bombed.

Support for a more agressive stance will build once the "stories" of victims and their relatives get told.

The most frightening factor in this is something brought out by William Safire in an Op-ed piece in the NY Times. He said that there was every indication that there was a mole in the White House. The terrorists were using very high-level American codes to co-ordinate their efforts. This was why Bush was reluctant to return from Florida on Tuesday and they're keeping the Vice President at such physical distance from him.

After the day of mourning, we shall see what the response is.

------------------
The great ships are safe in the harbour, but that's not what they were built for.

That was quite a response to Pearl Harbour!

I wonder how many died there?

_________________________
In His Love,Mercy & Grace

Daryl

So much death and destruction.
It is all you see oon the television these days.
It is sure to foment a desire for revenge.
That is what our leaders are calling for by the way.
Revenge, not justice.

------------------
Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8

quote:

---

Attacks Not "God's Punishment," Says Biblical Scholar September 18, 2001

The tragic events surrounding last Tuesday's terrorist attacks should not be interpreted as an expression of God's anger against America, says Dr. Angel Rodriguez, a leading Seventh-day Adventist Biblical scholar.
"Tempting as it is to speculate concerning the role of God in those events, we must simply acknowledge that they were the result of the presence of evil in this world," says Rodriguez.

Rodriguez' comments come just a few days after well-known Christian television evangelists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson speculated, on air, that,"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve."

Naming pagans,abortionists, feminists, homosexuals, the American Civil Liberties Union and the People for the American Way, Falwell said, "All of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'"

Falwell and Robertson have since backed away from their controversial comments, saying their "theological" observations have been widely misunderstood or misconstrued.

But the controversy has illustrated the perception among some people of an avenging God, who had a direct hand in the destruction of last week's terrorist tragedy, says Rodriguez.

"While we deplore the constant assaults on Christian values in American society through secular philosophies and action groups, we do not believe the terrorist attacks were a direct result of the waning spirituality in America," says Rodriguez, who is an associate
director of the Biblical Research Institute, located at the Adventist Church's world headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland, United States.

"We also believe God can bring good out of the chaos created by irrational assaults on buildings and human lives," adds Rodriguez.
"He can make us more sensitive to the need to strengthen our relationship with Him, realizing that our ultimate refuge is found in His loving Care. He can use the result of evil to invite us to forget ourselves, pray and work for others, and to unite the nation."

"A tragedy like the one our nation has experienced should motivate our leaders to serious reflection in an attempt to understand better why we have become the object of such hatred that led to this crime against humanity," he adds.

"God can bring good out of an unspeakable evil, without either being its cause or part of the process of justifying it."

Spiritual questions raised by the events of the past week were also addressed by Pastor Jan Paulsen, president of the Adventist world church, who spoke to church members around the world this weekend via a special satellite uplink.

“It is important to remember that God only knows precisely how the future will develop and how events will play themselves out,”said Paulsen.

“It helps no one, and it does not help the mission that God has entrusted to His church to carry out, for you or I to become overly speculative about that which is yet to happen. We are called on to be vigilant, to be sober, and to carry on with His mission until He comes.”

Paulsen also emphasized the positive contribution church members can make in the wake of the tragedy--humanitarian care, pastoral support and prayer, and a strength that comes from the assurance that good will ultimately triumph over evil.

“As believers, we are a people of hope and we speak the language of hope, faith, and belief in the future, even as we face such a distressing moment as we are now faced with,” said Paulsen.

He reassured viewers that, “God has not abandoned humanity; far from it! He has an immeasurable commitment to humanity, partially disclosed in the gift of his Son, and He is there to help.”

Bettina Krause Adventist News Network

---

What do you all think of that?

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

Moreover, Revelation describes the seals and the trumpets as God using earth's disasters to bring people to repentance. I will not back down from this truth.

------------------
The great ships are safe in the harbour, but that's not what they were built for.

In order to save someone, they must first know they are lost.
How best to get the attention of the lost than to hit them(allow them to be hit) where they live?

------------------
Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace. Jeremiah 8:11

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 5:3

My daughter and I were talking about this last evening. "Now, just stay calm. . . ." I fear that if we are looking to our leaders to tell us when the signs are fulfilling, we will continue to sleep. Mark Finley and some of the other evangelists seem to be aware that this was a fulfillment of prophecy and we need to be putting forth earnest effort to finish the work.

I heard on 3ABN that Kevin Paulson, an evangelist, will be holding an evangelistic series in the Manhattan SDA Church beginning in early October. This series had been planned for some time, but how fortuitous the timing is.

Heads up, folks, we're almost home!

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Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda

And to yours as well Linda! Both excellent statements of faith. Praise the Lord for His faithful few!

We'll see you soon!

God bless,
Wendy

quote:

---

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

---

We have obviously seen the bad things from all that has happened in the USA and its effects on the rest of the world.

In relation to God's promise, good things have also happened, are happening, or will happen.

What are these good things?

__________________________
Romans 8:28 And we
know that all things
work together for good to
them that love God, to them
who are the called according
to his purpose.

Daryl

quote:

---

Nine Seventh-day Adventist Church members are among the missing and presumed dead following the September 11 terrorist attacks in New York City and Washington, D.C.

1. Ted Moy, a deacon at the Spencerville Church in Silver Spring, Maryland, worked at the Pentagon. He was on a training exercise at an office very close to the point of impact. Moy leaves behind his wife, Madeline, and two teenagers, Jessica and Daniel.

2. Michael Baksh, mid-30s, was working in Tower 2 of the World Trade Center (WTC), his first day on the job. He was a very active member of the Church of the Advent Hope in Upper Manhattan and was recently elected chair of the church board. He leaves behind a wife and two children.

3. Lissy Martinez, late 20s, was also working in Tower 2. She was a Pathfinder leader of the Spanish Fort Washington Church in Upper Manhattan. She leaves a husband and two children.

4. Maxima Jean-Pierre, mid-40s, worked in Tower 2. A youth Sabbath School teacher at the Spanish Patchogue church, in Long Island, New York, she leaves a husband and four children.

5. Josue Velasquez worked at Tower 1. He was a faithful member of the Spanish Intervale Church in Bronx and helped out with camp meeting programs. He leaves a wife and three children.

6. LeRoy Homer was co-pilot of United Airlines Flight 93 that crashed in Western Pennsylvania. He was a frequent visitor to the Mt. Holly English Church in New Jersey where his wife Melodie is an active member.

7. Jorge Velazquez was a member of the Passaic I Spanish Church in New Jersey. As chief of security in Tower 2, he was busy ushering people out of the building from the 31st floor. He called home to communicate with his family at that time, but has not been heard from since. "Your father is a
real hero," the company president told Velazquez's family.

8. Steve Bunin, late 40s, was active in the audio visual department of the Corona Church in Queens. He worked for Cantor Fitzgerald on the 103rd floor of Tower 1. He leaves behind a wife, Hyacinth.

9. Michelle Nelson, 27, also worked for Cantor Fitzgerald on the 103rd Floor of Tower 1. She was a member of the Linden Church in Queens, serving as a clerk, Adventist Youth Services leader, and in the youth choir. Church members say she was well known for baking great pies.

Adventist members have also lost family and friends in the tragedy. Joan Silver, a member of the Sligo Adventist Church in Takoma Park, Maryland, lost a daughter, Valerie, 46, who worked near the top of one of the towers.

Dick Stenbakken, chaplaincy ministries director for the Adventist Church, reported that, despite rumors to the contrary, Rear Admiral Barry Black, chief of chaplains for the United States Navy and an Adventist Church member, was not harmed in the attack. "Chaplain Black was away when the
attacks occurred and is safe," said Stenbakken.

Source: Adventist News Network http://www.adventist.org/news/

---

[This message has been edited by Avalee (edited September 22, 2001).]

On Tuesday morning, 9/11/01, Pastor Batchelor was up early looking for pictures to use for the monthly letter they put out...Amazing Facts has been trying for quite awhile to get the Net New York Lessons they did back in 1999 on the air to replace the ones done at Andrews awhile back. But editing, equipment breakdowns, etc. has taken longer than expected..they could not understand the delay. As he was looking at some pictures they had taken on top of the WTC he received a phone call telling him to turn on the TV as someone had just flew a plane into the WTC. Pastor Batchelor said he thought that was very strange that he had just been looking at the pictures of the WTC. Each program will start with a fly by of the WTC. They had thought about if they should pull those shots of the WTC..but they did not. Pastor Batchelor says he now knows why God had them wait. These lessons are for now. I watched the first one this am and they are wonderful. Many of you might have already seen them back in the Fall of 1999. Praise God for His Hand in the timing of these lessons being shown.

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[This message has been edited by Avalee (edited September 23, 2001).]

An appeal has been issued to pastors and leaders from a wide array of ministry and denominational heads for American Christians to repent in the light of the Sept. 11 terrorism attacks. They say the tragedy is a
reflection of the country's "crumbling foundation" and that "we need to plead with God to forgive us."

Signers of the statement include Bill Bright (Campus Crusade for Christ), James Dobson (Focus on the Family), Thomas Trask (Assemblies of God) and Pat Robertson (Christian Broadcasting Network, CBN).

The group's "Biblical Response to America's National Emergency" is expected to be read in many churches and challenges Christians to
"repent of our past path of sin ... remember our present problems ...reach out to those in need ... and reclaim our precious promises of revival."

Dutch Sheets, a national prayer and intercession leader, issued an appeal to pastors not to use the word "judgment," adding that there needs to be discussions of the Sept. 11 events with carefully balanced
grace and truth.
http://news.christiansunite.com./religion/religion01046.shtml

[This message has been edited by Avalee (edited September 24, 2001).]

With so many students deeply affected by the attacks of Sept. 11, a high school assistant principal decided that the "church and state
separation" issue could not deter her from allowing the students to gather for a prayer service. According to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Ingrid Forbes commented that, after all, the president of the United States said we were going to be offering
prayers, and he didn't say "except in schools."

Prayer vigils and candlelight services were held in churches and on public squares; students across Georgia met together at the "See You at the Pole" events. "People for the American Way," which usually protests
breaches of the church-and-state separation, did not reply to a request for comment.

Right after the students heard of the terrorist attacks, they began praying together in some schools, with or without permission. One student said that her first reaction was to pray. She explained that a
lot of them had been raised up on Christian values, and she realized that it was time "to get right with God."
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/terrorism/nation/0919prayer.html

In Yankee stadium this past Sunday, the spirit of ecumenism was apparent. "One after another, members of the clergy -- Jews, Roman Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Protestants, Sikhs, Greek Orthodox -- stepped up to offer prayers." As the cameras panned the audience, one could see heads bowed during prayers by Christians and nonchristians alike.

------------------
Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda

------------------
Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

To us death seems to be the ultimate weapon, one that to us is absolute in it's effect. One that we can not combat. However it is not so to Jesus Christ. Only getting people to die in their sins and without Him, that is what He dreads. But death it's self He has already defeated. Life and sin's attraction to it and power over it, He has also already defeated.

Since the Biblical & SOP trend seems to be that Jesus dwelt upon certainties more than feelings, in contrast to all others on Earth. Perhaps we ought to major in His certainties and still minor in feelings, just enough to sympathize with the hurting around us. Then introduce them to our major focus, the certainties of Jesus and what He can and does do. It will give their raw and wounded feeling hope and courage and joy amid the suffering if they will receive Him and His certainties. It will encourage and strengthen us also.

As I think about your question my mind remembers the description of the events when Jesus was at Lazarus's tomb & how Desire of Ages described the behind the scenes thoughts, feelings, plans, events. A strong potential for parallels.

------------------
Edward F Sutton

I was one of the Taliban's torturers: I crucified people
(Filed: 30/09/2001)

In an astonishing interview with Christina Lamb, the Afghan leader's former bodyguard reveals the full brutality of the fundamentalist regime sheltering Osama bin Laden

"YOU must become so notorious for bad things that when you come into an area people will tremble in their sandals. Anyone can do beatings and starve people. I want your unit to find new ways of torture so terrible that the screams will frighten even crows from their nests and if the person survives he will never again have a night's sleep."

These were the instructions of the commandant of the Afghan secret police to his new recruits. For more than three years one of those recruits, Hafiz Sadiqulla Hassani, ruthlessly carried out his orders. But sickened by the atrocities that he was forced to commit, last week he defected to Pakistan, joining a growing number of Taliban officials who are escaping across the border.

In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, he reveals for the first time the full horror of what has been happening in the name of religion in Afghanistan. Mr Hassani has the pinched face and restless hands of a man whose night hours are as haunted as any of his victims. Now aged 30, he does not, however, fit the militant Islamic stereotype usually associated with the Taliban.

Married with a wife and one-year-old daughter, he holds a degree in business studies, having been educated in Pakistan, where he grew up as a refugee while his father and elder brothers fought in the jihad against the Russians. His family was well off, owning land and property in Kandahar to which they returned after the war.

"Like many people, I did not become a Talib by choice," he explained. "In early 1998 I was working as an accountant here in Quetta when I heard that my grandfather - who was 85 - had been arrested by the Taliban in Kandahar and was being badly beaten. They would only release him if he provided a member of his family as a conscript, so I had to go."

Mr Hassani at first was impressed by the Taliban. "It had been a crazy situation after the Russians left, the country was divided by warring groups all fighting each other. In Kandahar warlords were selling everything, kidnapping young girls and boys, robbing people, and the Taliban seemed like good people who brought law and order."

So he became a Taliban "volunteer", assigned to the secret police. Many of his friends also joined up as land owners in Kandahar were threatened that they must either ally themselves with the Taliban or lose their property. Others were bribed to join with money given to the Taliban by drug smugglers, as Afghanistan became the world's largest producer of heroin.

At first, Mr Hassani's job was to patrol the streets at night looking for thieves and signs of subversion. However, as the Taliban leadership began issuing more and more extreme edicts, his duties changed.

Instead of just searching for criminals, the night patrols were instructed to seek out people watching videos, playing cards or, bizarrely, keeping caged birds. Men without long enough beards were to be arrested, as was any woman who dared venture outside her house. Even owning a kite became a criminal offence.

The state of terror spread by the Taliban was so pervasive that it began to seem as if the whole country was spying on each other. "As we drove around at night with our guns, local people would come to us and say there's someone watching a video in this house or some men playing cards in that house," he said.

"Basically any form of pleasure was outlawed," Mr Hassani said, "and if we found people doing any of these things we would beat them with staves soaked in water - like a knife cutting through meat - until the room ran with their blood or their spines snapped. Then we would leave them with no food or water in rooms filled with insects until they died.

"We always tried to do different things: we would put some of them standing on their heads to sleep, hang others upside down with their legs tied together. We would stretch the arms out of others and nail them to posts like crucifixions.

"Sometimes we would throw bread to them to make them crawl. Then I would write the report to our commanding officer so he could see how innovative we had been."

Here, sitting in the stillness of an orchard in Quetta sipping tea as the sun goes down, he finds it hard to explain how he could have done such things. "We Afghans have grown too used to violence," is all he can offer. "We have lost 1.5 million people. All of us have brothers and fathers up there."

After Kandahar, he was put in charge of secret police cells in the towns of Ghazni and then Herat, a beautiful Persian city in western Afghanistan that had suffered greatly during the Soviet occupation and had been one of the last places to fall to the Taliban.

Herat had always been a relatively liberal place where women would dance at weddings and many girls went to school - but the Taliban were determined to put an end to all that. Mr Hassani and his men were told to be particularly cruel to Heratis.

It was his experience of that cruelty that made Mr Hassani determined to let the world know what was happening in Afghanistan. "Maybe the worst thing I saw," he said, "was a man beaten so much, such a pulp of skin and blood, that it was impossible to tell whether he had clothes on or not. Every time he fell unconscious, we rubbed salt into his wounds to make him scream.

"Nowhere else in the world has such barbarity and cruelty as in Afghanistan. At that time I swore an oath that I will devote myself to the Afghan people and telling the world what is happening."

Before he could escape, however, because he comes from the same tribe, he spent time as a bodyguard for Mullah Omar, the reclusive spiritual leader of the Taliban.

"He's medium height, slightly fat, with an artificial green eye which doesn't move, and he would sit on a bed issuing instructions and giving people dollars from a tin trunk," said Mr Hassani. "He doesn't say much, which is just as well as he's a very stupid man. He knows only how to write his name `Omar' and sign it.

"It is the first time in Afghanistan's history that the lower classes are governing and by force. There are no educated people in this administration - they are all totally backward and illiterate.

"They have no idea of the history of the country and although they call themselves mullahs they have no idea of Islam. Nowhere does it say men must have beards or women cannot be educated; in fact, the Koran says people must seek education."

He became convinced that the Taliban were not really in control. "We laughed when we heard the Americans asking Mullah Omar to hand over Osama bin Laden," he said. "The Americans are crazy. It is Osama bin Laden who can hand over Mullah Omar - not the other way round."

While stationed in Kandahar, he often saw bin Laden in a convoy of Toyota Land Cruisers all with darkened windows and festooned with radio antennae. "They would whizz through the town, seven or eight cars at a time. His guards were all Arabs and very tall people, or Sudanese with curly hair."

He was also on guard once when bin Laden joined Mullah Omar for a bird shoot on his estate. "They seemed to get on well," he said. "They would go fishing together, too - with hand grenades."

The Arabs, according to Mr Hassani, have taken de facto control of his country. "All the important places of Kandahar are now under Arab control - the airport, the military courts, the tank command."

Twice he attended Taliban training camps and on both occasions they were run by Arabs as well as Pakistanis. "The first one I went to lasted 10 days in the Yellow Desert in Helmand province, a place where the Saudi princes used to hunt, so it has its own airport.

It was incredibly well guarded and there were many Pakistanis there, both students from religious schools and military instructors. The Taliban is full of Pakistanis."

He was told that if he died while fighting under the white flag of the Taliban, he and his family would go to paradise. The soldiers were given blank marriage certificates signed by a mullah and were encouraged to "take wives" during battle, basically a licence to rape.

When Mr Hassani was sent to the front line in Bagram, north of Kabul, a few months ago, he saw a chance to escape. "Our line was attacked by the Northern Alliance and they almost defeated us. Many of my friends were killed and we didn't know who was fighting who; there was killing from behind and in front. Our commanders fled in cars leaving us behind.

"We left, running all night but then came to a line of Arabs who arrested us and took us back to the front line. One night last month I was on watch and saw a truck full of sheep and goats, so I jumped in and escaped.

"I got back to Kandahar but Taliban spies saw me and I was arrested and interrogated. Luckily I have relatives who are high ranking Taliban members so they helped me get out and eventually I escaped to Quetta to my wife and daughter.

"I think many in the Taliban would like to escape. The country is starving and joining is the only way to get food and keep your land. Otherwise there is a lot of hatred. I hate both what it does and what it turned me into."

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The great ships are safe in the harbour, but that's not what they were built for.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

In times of need, it is always better to focus on the love and goodness of God, rather than the hate and destruction of the Devil.

[This message has been edited by Wedntgp (edited September 30, 2001).]

I see what happened on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 as a wake-up call for all of us!

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited September 30, 2001).]

They must learn how to study the Bible for themselves.

They must learn to know Jesus for themselves as their Saviour.

They must follow Matt 28:18-20 & learn to follow Him by observing all He has taught and avail His tools for entrance into His Kingdom.

They must learn to work for others, through personal intelligent coordinated mission driven actions themselves.

Evangelism well thought out, well organized, both public & grass roots, is Heaven's counter terrorism . But it is neither survivalist nor watered down. It is telling & doing just what God has said to tell and do.

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Edward F Sutton

[This message has been edited by Edward F Sutton (edited September 30, 2001).]

Journalist Tamim Ansary, a San Francisco-based writer and the son of a former Afghani politician, wrote this piece on 14 September 2001 and e-mailed it to a handful of friends. Now it's been all over the world -- for example, the letter can be found on Salon.com under the title "An Afghan-American Speaks."

quote:

---

BY: Tamim Ansary

I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." One talk radio host said this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but, "We're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later, another TV pundit asked if we "have the belly to do what must be done."

And I thought about these issues being raised especially hard, because I am from Afghanistan. Even though I've lived here for 35 years, I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.

I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters.

But the Taliban and bin Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan," think "the Jews in the concentration camps."

It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims. They would exult if someone came in and took out the Taliban and the rat's nest of international thugs holed up in their country.

Some say, "Why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban?" The answer is, they're starved, damaged, incapacitated, exhausted. Credible international aid organizations estimate that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan -- a country with no economy, no food. Two million men were killed during the war with the Soviets. There are millions of Afghan widows -- and the Taliban has been executing women for being women. The soil is littered with landmines. The farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely.

In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat. Only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only help the Taliban -- by crushing the same people they've been raping all this time.

So what can be done, then?

Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done," they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Pushing aside moral qualms and killing innocent people, what's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.

And guess what: that's bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that?

Bin Laden does. Anyone else?

---

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Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda

As a male, I make the observation that people are constantly separating the military (often young men who do have mothers, wives and children) from civilians (always pure and innocent).

If armed forces are targeted then it's somehow justified, but civilians...

Recent reports said that the Taliban went into villages looking for young men. If they refused to join up, they would burn their families' houses up.

History tells us that some of the Old Testament battles, unfortunately, are an example of the only way to fight a war.

I hate it to be this way--but I'm a pragmatist.

Pray for wisdom for our leaders--I'm glad that I'm not in charge!

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The great ships are safe in the harbour, but that's not what they were built for.

I wonder what the response of the terrorists will be? More terrorist attacks in the USA, and maybe now also in Britain?

__________________________
Romans 8:28 And we
know that all things
work together for good to
them that love God, to them
who are the called according
to his purpose.

Daryl

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited October 07, 2001).]

The irony is not lost upon me. The battles outside our home & our Church may be bigger but are less dangerous than the battles inside our home & inside our Church.

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Edward F Sutton

I agree about the attacks from within, which we are actually discussing in this weeks Sabbath School lesson study thread in the Sabbath School forum.

The devil first tried to destroy the church from without, however, he soon saw that he would have more success at destroying the church from within by having Christians destroy other Christians as shown by the entrance and eventual enforcement of the false Sabbath (Sunday) into the church which will soon be happening again.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

quote:

---

Christian Book Sales Soaring Across U.S.

Sales of Christian books, Bibles and books on prophecy are on an upswing that began soon after the terrorist attacks last month. And, according to The Daytona Beach, Fla., News-Journal, industry leaders are saying
the surge is expected to continue through Christmas. Cris Doornbos, a Zondervan publishing house executive, said, "They certainly turn to religion because they believe it is something of a bedrock."

A Christian bookstore sales clerk said, "Worried parents are coming in to buy Bibles because they are trying to get their children something to stand on." A mother, buying a Bible for her college-age son, said, "I guess this makes you stop and think." Bible sales are up between 27 and
30 percent, according to Berean and Family Christian Stores.

"Books on prophesy were hardly selling prior to Sept. 15, and now, sales are up 80 percent." The manager of another Christian bookstore, Books-A-Million, remarks that "customers are asking for anything to do
with end times." Already in demand, the "Left Behind" series by Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye has gained in popularity.

"People are unsettled and unsure, and they want to know how events like this play in the bigger picture," said a Warner Books executive. "They turn to authors who can interpret scripture and prophecy to find ssome kind of comfort and explanation."

http://www.news-journalonline.com/2001/Oct/3/FLA9.htm

---

From: Religion Today

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[This message has been edited by Avalee (edited October 08, 2001).]

Daryl,

That's exactly it. We are in the Omega of Apostasy. Sunday worship is just around the corner for God's church, and persecution for those who refuse as well.

Maranatha!!!

I am happy to see that our church is using this as an opportunity to do a great work in New York City. As you probably already know, we took up a NAD wide special offering for the work that needs to be done there. They have a $1,000,000.00 goal.

It's too bad that our Ignite Canada event wasn't this Fall instead of next Fall, however, we should nevertheless use and create every means to do something now from increasing the need to awaken in our own local churches, to going and doing door-to-door surveys leading, hopefully, to some kind of Bible studies, to offering special two or three nights a week prophecy seminars. to.......... The methods are unlimited when allowing ourselves to be led by the Holy Spirit.

__________________________
Romans 8:28 And we
know that all things
work together for good to
them that love God, to them
who are the called according
to his purpose.

Daryl

I gave a sermon on this which I believe I will post in the appropriate forum of MSDAOL.

__________________________
Romans 8:28 And we
know that all things
work together for good to
them that love God, to them
who are the called according
to his purpose.

Daryl

quote:

---

I gave a sermon on this which I believe I will post in the appropriate forum of MSDAOL.

---

Yes please Bro Dayrl,

Id love to hear you speak, er, so to speak.

Amelia

In The Blessed Hope of Jesus Soon Coming

Avalee

I also remember reading about a warning prior to September 11th that was given to a friend of one of the hijackers, reported to the authorities after the September 11th terrorist attacks, to stay away from planes on September 11th and to also stay away from malls on October 31st.

Tomorrow is October 31st.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

Did all you Canadians know that the Canadian military is also involved in the war against the Taliban in Afganistan?

quote:

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Chaplain Ministers to Canadian Troops in the Persian Gulf

October 29, 2001

Crosswalk.com News Channel - Lt. Commander Stephen Merriman, 47, says he wouldn't have it any other way. "I got into the military because I want to take care of soldiers," said the Free Methodist minister just days before "mustering out" with the ship, HMCS Preserver.

This senior chaplain of the Canadian Navy's East Coast fleet has a daunting task - he's responsible for the morale of thousands of Canadian troops involved in the U.S.-led military action in the Persian Gulf, as reported in the Canadian Christian newspaper, "Christian Week."

Merriman knows many Canadian Christians and peace activists have concerns about Canada's involvement in this military campaign. He agrees that war is not always the answer, and that there is a time and a place for diplomacy. "However," he says, "if every avenue of dialogue and debate is exhausted, there is sometimes the need for more radical intervention. ... We're not dealing with rational people who want to talk things through. There are no possibilities of ending this conflict in a peaceful way. The only way to deal with this is military action."

---

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Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda

I am glad that is a hoax, although I thought I had read it on cnn.com who I thought normally checks out their sources before reporting it.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl