I want to say, further, that I use the web to study into many ideas on the end time. Some are really far out, as the guy who believes the stingers on the locusts tails in Revelation are hypodermic needles used by the gov to make people have mental illness. Also is the interpretation of the 70 weeks, and specifically the "week" they tag on the end for The Tribulation. Most of the protestant churches are pushing that now. I believe the Adventist interpretation. But what I'm getting to is that many Adventists are going to be thrown into terrible confusion when the argument heats up due to Sunday laws and pressure to receive the Mark. I think Adventists should start researching some of these alternative interpretations so they will not be taken by surprise that there are other ways to see it. I am an independent thinker, not a follower type, and anyone like that should become able to answer the opponents before they are put under great crisis. Do you sense that also?

As a pastor I find that many SDA's are willing to explore other views of prophecy. I have found that this particular forum (MSDAOL) is not quite as open as others. If you suggest, for example, that the antichrist may be a UFO visitant, some will become alarmed. But others are willing to explore the issue.

I mention the 7 heads/mountains/kings of Rev 17 because some people believe they symbolize the last 7 successive popes beginning with the pope in 1939 (can't remember his name). I personally do not subscribe to this theory, but I think it illustrates how willing people are to study the prophecies, which I think is great. As you said, studying the prophecies have the potential of drawing us closer to Jesus in ways other studies cannot, which is not to say we should neglect them, but rather that we should do it all.

Are you comfortable with the traditional idea that the antichrist is whoever is occupying the office of the pope?

Mike,

You asked about the comfort level of the idea that popes are represented by the heads of Rev 17's beast. Personally, I am uncomfortable with the idea that any pope since 1798 has any major part to play in last day events at all.

Traditionally, Adventists have suggested that the first four heads represent Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome. After that, they point to Papal Rome which seems like a likely candidate. But then Rev 17 suggests that the next head doesn't exist. Other texts say a head received a deadly wound (Rev 13:3) though vss 12 and 14 seem to indicate that the whole beast had been wounded and healed. Following the lead of Rev 17:11, it seems that the beast actually had one head at a time so wounding a head would, in fact, kill the whole beast and when the wound was healed, it would have a different head. From all this, it seems obvious that the Papacy has had it's turn. It was the fifth head not the sixth or seventh.

Look around today. There is no universal kingdom. Even more to the point, there is no overt worship of Satan or any of his symbols, Marduke, Zeus, Jupiter, or the pope. Even worship of any deity is almost non-existant. So this is the era of the sixth head which "is not." Following this will come a restoration of Satanic power in the form of the seventh head. I suggest that the New Age movement with support from nearly all Earthly religions, including Catholics, Protestants, Jews, and Muslims, will constitute that seventh head. It will last but a short time (Rev 17:10) then Satan will appear and become that eighth head John points to in verse 11.

I agree that the support for this scenerio is convoluted, but that's how I see it at the present.

Bob Lee

Bob, no doubt the New Age will play a prominent place during the final days of Earth's history and the great controversy.

Revelation 17
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Here's what makes sense to me: the beast symbolizes the powers through which the devil has worked to implement his plans. When referring to the first head the beast symbolizes Babylon, when referring to the second head it represents Medo-Persia, etc.

In verse 8 the beast (during the Catholic Europe tenure) is pictured between the wounded head (5th) and the healing of the wound (somewhere between 1798 and the future). It says it "was (538-1798), is not and yet is (church and state exist independently), and shall ascend (when the wound is healed sometime in future and church and state reunite)."

The "one is (6th)" rules until the 7th kingdom comes to power. I believe the 6th is Communist Europe and the 7th is the USA (not lamblike beast phase, but the image beast phase, when MOB is being enforced). The 8th is Catholic Europe restored (wound healed). Ten horns are the nations that unite with the USA and Catholic Europe to enforce the MOB.

What do you guys think?

Satan won't need no space ship to impersonate Christ.

"He will appear AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT."

There is no Bible account of angels appearing in spaceships, past, present, or future.

If there is, and I have missed it, please fill me in.

I could just as easily conjure up a tale like this; and say "I think this must be so," but that would not necessarily make it so.

We are not to add to the Word of God, nor take away from it. I am surprised that a Pastor would do this, on an SDA forum.

[ June 14, 2002, 06:16 AM: Message edited by: Benaiah ]

Here's what I wrote about it:

[q]Restin, I agree with you that Satan will more than likely impersonate a UFO encounter with earth. The world is definitely set up for this kind of event.

But personally I think one of two things about this possible scenario: the UFO visitant will encourage people to worship in harmony with the antichrist and to receive the MOB, or Satan will deceive the Babylonian churches (non-SDA Christian churches) into believing the UFO visitant is the antichrist.[/q]

If Satan chooses to use an UFO event to further deceive people, which I am not saying the Bible or SOP says he will, it will not be as a fulfillment of Satan impersonating the second coming of Jesus. EGW is clear on this point.

But can you show from the Bible that Satan will personate the return of Christ in the manner EGW wrote about it?

I dont have a major cause to promote the idea someone will appear in a spaceship. It's just that Satan can certainly take people off guard by utilizing modern styles and playing along with their fads. I didn't mean it in any kooky way of little green men with bug eyes, but of something very high-tech and looking very much like a noble ambassador from somewhere in the heavens. I'm not stuck on this. I'm not trying to add to EGW. She purposely has been generalized about specific endtime events. Just what will be the "fireballs" destroying "thousands of cities"?. We speculate whether they will be meteors, or brimstone, or missles from other nations. I'm not trying to be stuck on anything, but just want people to be open to unexpected possibilities so that they can be on guard.