There is a very real situation that presents itself when the "elite" in any formal religious group seek to use heavy-handed control measures to force the whole structure into an unchangeable and stifling mass of formalism as if to force individuals into a doctrinal padded cell. There is a passage in Early Writings that exposes the sins of Babylon. In this passage the prophet speaks of the slave holder and the slave.

There is an application of greater import here for those who hold members in the vice grip of false doctrine and compromised religious practice all the while thinking they are towing the line of sacred duty. There are, of course, those honest ones who have no knowledge that what they are doing is causing eternal loss of souls. But the real condemnation comes against those who are willfully covering up darkness. As Luther put it, they are "like a cloak that covers evil." This passage holds the just punishment for those spiritual slave-holders...

The Sins of Babylon

I saw that since the second angel proclaimed the fall of the churches, they have been growing more and more corrupt. They bear the name of being Christ's followers; yet it is impossible to distinguish them from the world. Ministers take their texts from the Word of God, but preach smooth things. To this the natural heart feels no objection. It is only the spirit and power of the truth and the salvation of Christ that are hateful to the carnal heart. There is nothing in the popular ministry that stirs the wrath of Satan, makes the sinner tremble, or applies to the heart and conscience the fearful realities of a judgment soon to come. Wicked men are generally pleased with a form of piety without true godliness, and they will aid and support such a religion. {EW 273.1}
Said the angel, "Nothing less than the whole armor of righteousness can enable man to overcome the powers of darkness and retain the victory over them. Satan has taken full possession of the churches as a body.

The sayings and doings of men are dwelt upon instead of the plain, cutting truths of the Word of God. The spirit and friendship of the world are at enmity with God. When the truth in its simplicity and strength, as it is in Jesus, is brought to bear against the spirit of the world, it at once awakens the spirit of persecution. Very many who profess to be Christians have not known God. The natural heart has not been changed, and the carnal mind remains at enmity with God. They are Satan's faithful servants, notwithstanding they have assumed another name." {EW 273.2}

I saw that since Jesus left the holy place of the heavenly sanctuary and entered within the second veil, the churches have been filling up with every unclean and hateful bird. I saw great iniquity and vileness in the churches; yet their members profess to be Christians. Their profession, their prayers, and their exhortations are an abomination in the sight of God. Said the angel, "God will not smell in their assemblies. Selfishness, fraud, and deceit are practiced by them without the reprovings of conscience. And over all these evil traits they throw the cloak of religion." I was shown the pride of the nominal churches. God is not in their thoughts; their carnal minds dwell upon themselves; they decorate their poor mortal bodies, and then look upon themselves with satisfaction and pleasure. Jesus and the angels look upon them in anger. Said the angel, "Their sins and pride have reached unto heaven. Their portion is prepared. Justice and judgment have slumbered long, but will soon awake. Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, saith the Lord." The fearful threatenings of the third angel are to be realized, and all the wicked are to drink of the wrath of God. An innumerable host of evil angels are spreading over the whole land and crowding the churches. These agents of Satan look upon the religious bodies with exultation, for the cloak of religion covers the greatest crime and iniquity. {EW 274.1}
All heaven beholds with indignation human beings, the workmanship of God, reduced by their fellow men to the lowest depths of degradation and placed on a level with the brute creation. Professed followers of that dear Saviour whose compassion was ever moved at the sight of human woe, heartily engage in this enormous and grievous sin, and deal in slaves and souls of men. Human agony is carried from place to place and bought and sold. Angels have recorded it all; it is written in the book. The tears of the pious bondmen and bondwomen, of fathers, mothers, and children, brothers and sisters, are all bottled up in heaven. God will restrain His anger but little longer. His wrath burns against this nation and especially against the religious bodies that have sanctioned this terrible traffic and have themselves engaged in it. Such injustice, such oppression, such sufferings, are looked upon with heartless indifference by many professed followers of the meek and lowly Jesus. And many of them can themselves inflict, with hateful satisfaction, all this indescribable agony; and yet they dare to worship God. It is solemn mockery; Satan exults over it and reproaches Jesus and His angels with such inconsistency, saying, with hellish triumph, "Such are Christ's followers!" {EW 275.1}
These professed Christians read of the sufferings of the martyrs, and tears course down their cheeks. They wonder that men could ever become so hardened as to practice such cruelty toward their fellow men. Yet those who think and speak thus are at the same time holding human beings in slavery. And this is not all; they sever the ties of nature and cruelly oppress their fellow men. They can inflict most inhuman torture with the same relentless cruelty manifested by papists and heathen toward Christ's followers. Said the angel, "It will be more tolerable for the heathen and for papists in the day of the execution of God's judgment than for such men." The cries of the oppressed have reached unto heaven, and angels stand amazed at the untold, agonizing sufferings which man, formed in the image of his Maker, causes his fellow man. Said the angel, "The names of the oppressors are written in blood, crossed with stripes, and flooded with agonizing, burning tears of suffering. God's anger will not cease until He has caused this land of light to drink the dregs of the cup of His fury, until He has rewarded unto Babylon double. Reward her even as she rewarded you, double unto her double according to her works; in the cup which she hath filled, fill to her double." {EW 275.2}
I saw that the slave master will have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and the sins of the slave will be visited upon the master. God cannot take to heaven the slave who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master's lash, and holding a lower position than the brutes. But He does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He permits him to be as if he had not been, while the master must endure the seven last plagues and then come up in the second resurrection and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the justice of God will be satisfied.

The passage in Early writings exposed the pride of the "nominal churches." Are these nominal churches SDA Churches, or the fallen Babylonian, Protestant Sunday Churches? Note:

"I was shown the pride of the nominal churches."

But what about the pride of the nominal SDA Churches? What are the characteristics of the nominal churches? What are the characteristics of the nominal SDA churches? Is there a link?

Notice,

Pride of Nominal Churches

I was shown the pride of the nominal churches. God is not in their thoughts; their carnal minds dwell upon themselves; they decorate their poor mortal bodies, and then look upon themselves with satisfaction and pleasure.{EW 274.1}

Pride of Sabbathkeepers

I saw that God's people are on the enchanted ground, and that some have lost nearly all sense of the shortness of time and the worth of the soul. Pride has crept in among Sabbathkeepers-pride of dress and appearance. Said the angel, "Sabbathkeepers will have to die to self, die to pride and love of approbation." {EW 120.1}

Would think that the true categories are only two, true churches with genuine christians in one group and nominal churches and everyone else in the secound group. This irrespective of what the church chooses to call itself.

/Thomas

There is a world of souls who draw no line of separation between Israel & Babylon. Apparently you are one of them. I am of the other...

Greetings,

The word nominal means in name only. When the Sabbath came as light on the world, every church had the opportunity in Mrs. White's time to accept this as light and to come into the fold. When the various faiths forsook the light, they then also became in name only Christ's.

This does not mean that there cannot be honest Christians in the nominal churches through out the world. But these Christians would have to live up to the light that they come to know.

Nominal Adventists are those that have light and live in name only.

With regards to truly understanding the term nominal Adventists we should look to the understanding of the wheat and the tares.

So many times people assume that the wheat and tares look like sinners sinning. But that is not what the wheat represents.

The wheat represents the good and pure grain. Therefore, if one is a tare, they will only have sins hidden in their hearts until they become open sins. This is why we should not judge another based on assumption of what we think is in the heart based on some actions, which are not open sins.

When the tare is showing its fruit, it is no longer the tare, but the tare bearing its fruit because the secret things of the heart are no longer hidden to the brethren and sisters.

The church of God has instituted a method in which open sin is handled. If you would read Matthew 18 you would find that this is a method filled full of love for the brethren and sisters of His church. And of course the writings of Mrs. White are of a great benefit in teaching the methods of love and disobedience in God's church.

In this post I truly believe it would be of more benefit to expound on the characteristics of God's Church where Christ is the head.

quote:

---

1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."
Romans 12:10 "[Be] kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;"
1 Corinthians 12:26 "And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it."

---

• aspostles
• prophets
• teachers
• miracles
• gifts of healings
• helps
• diversities of tongues
• governments
• Genuine brotherly love
• The Lord's children suffer together
• The Lord's children rejoice together

Then there is the one which every Adventist should understand, the Sabbath truth.

But what is the Sabbath truth? Is it merely a law? No, never, it is the sign between God and us which shows that we will be a sanctified people.

Sabbath is only a sign when the people of the Lord are willing to be humbled and molded into the reflection of our Savior. It is the work which teaches the Lord's children that we are willing to be molded today.

quote:

---

Will man take hold of this divine power which has been placed
within his reach, and with determination and perseverance resist
Satan, as Christ has given example in His conflict with the foe in
the wilderness of temptation? God cannot save man against his
will from the power of Satan’s artifices. Man must work with his
human power, aided by the divine power of Christ, to resist and to
conquer at any cost to himself. In short, man must overcome as
Christ overcame. Christ was a perfect overcomer; and we must be
perfect, wanting nothing, without spot or blemish. . . .{BEcho, January 1, 1893 par. 3}

---

Truly Brethren and Sisters we will be known by our fruits, and Proverbs 20:11 says "Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right."

Your Sister in Christ Jesus,
Cheri Fritz

That is precisely the problem Thomas, everyone wants to draw their own line and noone wants to accept the line that the Lord has already drawn.

A line that says that membership in the SDA church is more important for which group the church is part of than its members devotion to Jesus Christ?

/Thomas

Let's not put words into anothers' mouth here Thomas. The line that is drawn is done by the Lord through His prophet.

A church that believes there is no difference between their own theology and that of the fallen churches they have, in times past, called souls out from, will at one time or another, fail to find a difference in their own faith and those of other faiths. Is this healthy and just? Is this the Lord's purpose for SDA's?

The Lord called SDA's to a higher calling by forming this denomination. Where is the difference in Sabbath to Sabbath preaching? I don't see much.

I am sorry to read that you feel the SDA church is no different than the fallen churches as you imply.
The indifference you feel from Sabbath to Sabbath is really a personal problem, one that Christ can fix, not man. If you go to church to criticize, and not share the Gospel with those who don't know Christ, then yoy would do well to not be on that screams out "Did we not prophesy in your name"..
May God give you the peace you need in your heart.
-Will

If your church is lazy and sleeping in the pews there is a problem. The church is not a vacation spot filled with a buffet of entertainment, and you can go home and relax afterwards. We are told by Jesus to go and make disciples of all nations.
If anyone here is not doing that, I highly recommend heeding His word's and starting there first.
God Bless,
Will

Yes, members' outreach doesn't have the same energy or numbers as the Sabbath School class - small as it is!, but it's the sermon more than the prayer meetings which should inspire, and they generally just don't, ignoring the urgency and message of the times...

I'm learning the humble trade of a laypreacher at this time, and preachers are supposed to bring out of God's treasure house insights of God's truth and righteousness in Christ which are new to the congregation, and to the preacher. Pastors aren't bold enough with sermons, either, in my experience.

It's all the parish leaders who should look higher, spiritually, for their morsels of inspiration.

I am speaking mainly about church administrators who are seeking to squelch the pioneer truths of the past by not allowing the changes required to do this Colin. We have nothing to fear of the future, except that...

Jesus's own words:

quote:

---

Matthew 12:10-12
10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

---

No personal attacks Dennis. The Sabbath was made for man, which is all mankind Mark 2:27,28. If we have food and clothing and tell someone who is in need to beon there merry way and take care then faith is alone is dead. Thats from James chapter 2.
Jesus knew what He was talking about and knew what He was doing, remember His Father worketh on the Sabbath as well John 5:17. We are not talking about recreational type of work. we are talking about providing for you and me, the birds, and everyone on the earth day in and day out.
The Sabbath is a very special day,and Holy to God. In it we worship Him who made the heavens and the earth, and we are to love our neighbor as ourselves.
Obviously I wouldn't help someone out to paint their home on Saturday just because they have plans for Sunday, but I will give the clothes off my back, and feed someone, or spend time with someone who is naked, hungry, and alone on the Sabbath. It is a sin not to.
God Bless,
Will

I'm not sure who you are referring to, my name is Eugene. Apology accepted Will. No this thread is not about the Sabbath unless you want it to be. I understand what you are saying.

Where are you posting from Eugene?

I just happened to stumble across this interesting topic that for some reason came to an abrupt end, however, it seems to be a topic worth bumping.

this passage had to do with the very real slavery going on when ellen white wrote this and Gods abhorrence of it, not some spiritual slavery someone made up in their mind and then tried to use this to prove.

many of the fallen churches justified, protected and enacted laws to keep slavery then had the nerve to show up in church week after week to "worship" God.