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Re: Are Adventists THE True Christians? #43952
11/10/00 03:55 AM
11/10/00 03:55 AM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

1. What is a Christian? Some who gives themselves to Jesus and follows Him till a comfortable stopping place is found.
2. What is a Seventh Day Adventist Christian? The same one who gave themselves to Jesus and follows Him, but can not find a stopping place where they are satisfied with too much Jesus and His teachings; so till they die they just kept following Him & He kept teaching and leading and they kept responding, surrendering & following.
---------------------

"All His life, Jesus had lived in the presence of His Father. The Spirit of God had been His constant guide and support. He always gave God the glory for His works on earth, and said, "I can of Mine own self do nothing." John 5:30. {SJ 101.3}

We can do nothing of ourselves. It is only by relying on Christ for all our strength that we can overcome, and do His will on earth. We must have the same simple,
childlike trust in Him that He had in His Father. Christ said, "Without Me ye can do nothing." John 15:5. {SJ 101.4}

The terrible night of agony for the Saviour began as they neared the garden. It seemed that the presence of God, which had been His support, was no longer with Him. He was beginning to feel what it was to be shut out from His Father. {SJ 102.1}

Christ must bear the sins of the world. As they were now laid upon Him, they seemed more than He could endure. The guilt of sin was so terrible, He was tempted to fear that God could no longer love Him. {SJ 102.2}

As He felt the awful displeasure of the Father against evil, the words were forced from Him, "My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death." {SJ 102.3}

Near the gate of the garden, Jesus had left all His disciples except Peter, James, and John, and He had gone into the garden with these three. They were His most earnest followers, and had been His closest companions. But He could not bear that even they should witness the suffering He was to endure. He said to them: {SJ 102.4}

"Tarry ye here, and watch with Me." Matthew 26:38. {SJ 102.5}

He went a short distance from them, and fell prostrate upon the ground. He felt that by sin He was being separated from the Father. The gulf between them appeared so broad, so black, so deep, that He shuddered before it. {SJ 102.6}

Christ was not suffering for his own sins, but for the sins of the world. He was feeling the displeasure of God against sin as the sinner will feel it in the great judgment day. {SJ 102.7}

In His agony, Christ clung to the cold ground. From His pale lips came the bitter cry, "O My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless not as I will, but as Thou wilt." Matthew 26:39. {SJ 102.8}

For an hour Christ bore this terrible suffering alone. Then He came to the disciples, hoping for some word of sympathy. But no sympathy awaited Him, for they were asleep. They awoke at the sound of His voice, but they hardly knew Him, His face was so changed by anguish. Addressing Peter, He said: {SJ 103.1}

"Simon, sleepest thou? Couldest not thou watch one hour?" Mark 14:37. {SJ 103.2}

Just before He bent His footsteps to the garden, Christ had said to the disciples, "All ye shall be offended because of Me this night." They had given Him the strongest assurance that they would go with Him to prison and to death. And poor, self-sufficient Peter had added, "Although all shall be offended, yet will not I." Mark 14:27, 29. {SJ 103.3}

But the disciples trusted to themselves. They did not look to the Mighty Helper as Christ had counselled them to do. So when the Saviour was most in need of their sympathy and prayers, they were found asleep. Even Peter was sleeping. {SJ 103.4}

And John, the loving disciple who had leaned upon the breast of Jesus, was asleep. Surely the love of John for his Master should have kept him awake. His earnest prayers should have mingled with those of his loved Saviour in the time of His great agony. The Redeemer had spent whole nights in praying for His disciples, that their faith might not fail in the hour of trial. Yet they could not remain awake with Him even one hour. {SJ 103.5}

Had Christ now asked James and John, "Can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" they would not have answered so readily as they did before, "We can." Mark 10:38, 39. {SJ 103.6}

The Saviour's heart was filled with pity and sympathy at the weakness of His disciples. He feared that they could not endure the test which His suffering and death would bring upon them. {SJ 104.1}

Yet He did not sternly reprove them for their weakness. He thought of the trials that were before them, and said: {SJ 104.2}

"Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation." {SJ 104.3}

He made an excuse for their failure in duty toward Him: "The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." Matthew 26:41. What an example of the tender, loving pity of the Saviour! {SJ 104.4}

Again the Son of God was seized with superhuman agony. Fainting and exhausted, He staggered back, and prayed as He had prayed before: {SJ 104.5}

"O My Father, if this cup may not pass away from Me, except I drink it, Thy will be done." Matthew 26:42. {SJ 104.6}

The agony of this prayer forced drops of blood from His pores. Again He sought the disciples for sympathy, and again He found them sleeping. His presence aroused them. They looked upon His face with fear, for it was stained with blood. They could not understand the anguish of mind which His face expressed. {SJ 104.7}

The third time He sought the place of prayer. A horror of great darkness overcame Him. He had lost the presence of His Father. Without this, He feared that in His human nature He could not endure the test. {SJ 104.8}

The third time He prays the same prayer as before. Angels long to bring relief, but it may not be. The Son of God must drink this cup, or the world will be lost forever. He sees the helplessness of man. He sees the power of sin. The woes of a doomed world pass in review before Him. {SJ 104.9}

He makes the final decision. He will save man at any cost to Himself. He has left the courts of Heaven, where all is purity, happiness, and glory, to save the one lost sheep, the one world that has fallen by transgression, and He will not turn from His purpose. His prayer now breathes only submission: {SJ 105.1}

"If this cup may not pass away from Me, except I drink it, Thy will be done." {SJ 105.2}

The Saviour now falls dying to the ground. No disciple is there, to place his hand tenderly beneath his Master's head, and bathe that brow, marred indeed more than the sons of men. Christ is alone; of all the people there are none with Him. {SJ 105.3}

But God suffers with His Son. Angels behold the Saviour's agony. There is silence in Heaven. No harp is touched. Could men have viewed the amazement of the angelic host as in silent grief they watched the Father separating His beams of light, love, and glory from His beloved Son, they would better understand how offensive in His sight is sin. {SJ 105.4}

A mighty angel now comes to the side of Christ. He lifts the head of the divine sufferer upon his bosom, and points toward Heaven. He tells Him that He has come off victor over Satan. As the result, millions will be victors in His glorious kingdom. {SJ 105.5}

A heavenly peace rests upon the Saviour's blood-stained face. He has borne that which no human being can ever bear; for He has tasted the sufferings of death for every man. {SJ 105.6}

Following Him you became a Christian, continuing to follow Him; He taught you how to become a Seventh Day Adventist. In the near future every man, woman, and child will be presented with this path to follow or decline. To follow it or reject it's path will forever settle the question asked that began this thread.

John 21:
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Hebrews 11:
32 ¶ And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy : ) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Hebrews 12:
1 ¶ Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 ¶ Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;


Follow Jesus as close as He will let you, modern religion is but a faint glimmer of what it could be. Ism's are the signiture of where you are at, the Remnant faith is the aim for this world of where we ought be going. For the faith to be a Remnant it must be part of the original faith it is but a remnant of. Such faith warned every creature under the sun in that generation for love of the Victor in Gethsemene. Till we do the same perhaps we are not so Advent seeking Adventists?

To be God's child comes from "new birth" to be His friend comes from this continually .

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

------------------
Edward F. Sutton


Re: Are Adventists THE True Christians? #43953
11/10/00 04:57 AM
11/10/00 04:57 AM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

Quote by Cathy:

"Although I have little contact with non-Adventists these days, I find that I am still able to offer support and encouragement to those I do associate with. That is important too."

Thankyou Cathy

If I had to vote for the best post on this thread; I'd give first prize to you. Your positive christian outlook, and practical comments are encouraging to read. It can be hard to be positive when health concerns are in the equation. Truly, we are SDA's, because "The joy of the Lord is our strength." (Neh.8:10).

------------------
"We are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets; Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Cornerstone!" (Eph.2:20).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler


Re: Are Adventists THE True Christians? #43954
11/10/00 05:21 AM
11/10/00 05:21 AM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

Quote by brother Ed:

"What is a Seventh Day Adventist Christian? The same one who gave themselves to Jesus and follows Him, but can not find a stopping place where they are satisfied with too much Jesus and His teachings; so till they die they just kept following Him & He kept teaching and leading and they kept responding, surrendering & following."
---------------------
Thanks for all your efforts in your last post Ed.

I don't know if you have thought of the fact that you could have just stopped at the above quote I have posted from your last quote. It is complete; and reflects the practical side of this post's first question.

We are indeed SDA's, because we try to teach our people to be like the Bereans, (Acts 17:11), and we want to inspire others to continue to "grow in grace," learning more of Jesus, and sharing more of Him with others.

Have you any further thoughts on one of the last verses you quoted, (Heb.12:15), and how this particular verse applies to the question first asked in this post?

I know that other denominations have their share of troubles with this "root of bitterness" part - but why would an SDA have these same troubles as say, a Baptist does in this area, if they have the Truth?

Please bear with me in this thread. I am deliberately playing "devil's advocate," and not actually reflecting all or any of my true beliefs in the questions I am posing. These are questions that are asked me by a lot of people.

I appreciate your diligence in providing us with some answers in this direction.

"The eternal God has drawn the line of distinction between the saints and the sinners. The unconverted and the converted. The TWO CLASSES do not blend into each other imperceptively; like the colours of the rainbow. They are as distinct as midday and midnight." (TM 87)

------------------
"We are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets; Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Cornerstone!" (Eph.2:20).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

[This message has been edited by DavidTBattler (edited November 10, 2000).]


Re: Are Adventists THE True Christians? #43955
11/10/00 06:15 AM
11/10/00 06:15 AM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

Lack of diligence to internally and externally follow the teachings of Scripture has lead to, first a proliferation of various ideologies of faith though there is One Lord, and One Spirit. This has occurred and reoccurred over centuries. This has worked to attempt to forever ban the unity among those who worship Him, for which Jesus prayed after the First Communion supper. Jesus will still create Scriptural unity among His spiritual children on Earth, despite these impediments.

Secondly this lack of diligence to internally and externally follow the teachings of Scripture has lead to, a proliferation of various divisions of faith and fellowship among the children of "the good woman of Revelation chapter 12 also.

These roots are many, throughout Christendom, but have One cure.

The Bible's Author inspired the multi-faceted answer.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Matthew 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The first work is heart work, the second is action that follows that heart work. Jesus keeps moving the heart work closer and closer to the final preparations for the Second Coming.

Is it possible that a person can be born again, then refuse to follow where Jesus continues to lead them and looses their first love because they are lead to Scripture's teachings and they decide they don't want to follow Jesus in this area?

Would it constitute the end of their hope, or the beginning of their struggle? That having struggled and surrendered not to themselves, but to Jesus. Through the surrender to the teachings of Scripture by observing or (obeying from the heart and through the actions). They have begun to realize what it means to grow up in Christ.

When a baby is first born his or her first struggle is to breath, then to cry, then to latch on and nurse. Gravity and cold are new things to the baby, which the baby can not compensate for. The parents have to do for the baby what it does not know how to do, nor is able to do or the baby can not survive long enough to grow and mature .

Breathing, crying, feeding are fine for a while; until more physical & mental growth occurs that's all that is expected of the baby.

Soon however comes the time of feeding yourself, dressing yourself, walking, potty training, school, puberty, High School, College, Marriage, kids of your own, the cycle of life coming full circle. Physical life moves on, but so does spiritual life. Getting trapped in an immature stage of physical life is usually not a choice.

Spiritually settling down short of the Second Coming usually is a choice. Seventh Day Adventism is the Ideology prepared with the best of all other Christian Ideologies included and additional ones of it's own, for the purpose of preparing you to fulfill the expectations of Jesus, as He leads you ever closer to the Second Coming.

More later focusing on practical logistics and the opening question of this thread.
------------------
Edward F. Sutton

[This message has been edited by Edward F. Sutton (edited November 10, 2000).]


Re: Are Adventists THE True Christians? #43956
11/10/00 02:14 PM
11/10/00 02:14 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
What Ed posted made me think of the rich young man who came to Jesus saying that he had kept the Commandments of God from his youth up. When it came to the real test of practicality, however, he walked away after Christ told him to go and sell what he has and come and "Follow Me" for he was very rich.

It is interesting to note that this person could have been the 13th disciple.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl


Re: Are Adventists THE True Christians? #43957
11/10/00 02:14 PM
11/10/00 02:14 PM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

Hi Daryl,

Nice to "see" you, when do we get video online cell phones ?

------------------
Edward F. Sutton


Re: Are Adventists THE True Christians? #43958
11/10/00 02:16 PM
11/10/00 02:16 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
It is nice to see you on here also.

Pastor Andrew is on here right now also.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl


Re: Are Adventists THE True Christians? #43959
11/10/00 02:18 PM
11/10/00 02:18 PM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

After the apostasy and death of Judas, he (the rich young ruler) would have been the 12 th disciple and they all would have been hand picked and personally trained by Jesus Himself.

Too bad He didn't change bank accounts. Jesus is a more secure banker, the compound intrest & dividends never stop.

------------------
Edward F. Sutton


Re: Are Adventists THE True Christians? #43960
11/17/00 05:57 AM
11/17/00 05:57 AM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
[B]What Ed posted made me think of the rich young man who came to Jesus saying that he had kept the Commandments of God from his youth up. When it came to the real test of practicality, however, he walked away after Christ told him to go and sell what he has and come and "Follow Me" for he was very rich."


Brother Daryl

You made a good point here. But, here I go again...

I wonder...does giving "all" make us a Christian in light of 1 Cor.13:3:

"And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned; if I have not love; I am nothing."

Apparently, even if you give your life, and all your possessions; you can still be outside the realm of being a Christian?


Re: Are Adventists THE True Christians? #43961
12/30/00 03:44 AM
12/30/00 03:44 AM
A
Anonymous OP
Unregistered

Well, I have waited quite a while for an answer to my last question above; but that's OK. I have a little something to enclose that answers my first question in this thread of "Are SDA's THE True Christians?"

May God add His blessing to the reading of His Word...I learned the following from SDA's and this explains in part why I am a Seventh Day Adventist. Truly, our church has a message of salvation!

“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [people] unto Me...” John 12:32

It was literally true that when Jesus was lifted up upon the cross that He drew all kinds of people unto Him: good, bad, and indifferent.

The weary crowd gathered about the foot of the cross on that dread day, are good examples of people from all ages who have looked upon the cross to either receive or reject.

There were the two criminals, one hardened in his guilt, the other grasping at a last minute hope. There were the rulers and the priests, ridiculing the crucified One in their gross spiritual pride and self-sufficiency. Then the vulgar soldiers, with their course and cruel jests, cast lots for the seamless robe of Christ. A crowd of people were milling back and forth, beating their breasts, some scoffing, others uncertain, as they witness the agony of God.

But, then there is the Centurion, forced by what he had seen, to loudly exclaim: “Truly, this was the Son Of God.” And standing afar off from the cross, as if unable to bear the dreadful sight, are the many women who had ministered to the needs of the Savior while He was in Galilee. And here and there, His bewildered disciples, torn between loyalty to their stricken Master and the fear of the crowd. What fears, what anguish, what hopes raced through their benumbed minds? Would there be some final demonstration of divine power on their behalf? And there, near the cross, stands the mother of Jesus, weeping softly for her Son, Who tenderly commits her to the care of His beloved disciple.

In what area of your life have you rejected the cross? What anguish, what needs, what hopes do you need to take to the foot of the cross today? How would your life be different if you did?

Prayer: Dear Jesus, Man of Calvary, my heart fills with wonder and adoration as I contemplate the love that brought You to the earth, and took You to the cross for us, your “online children,”...here at MSDAOL.:

”Jesus keep us near the cross; there a precious fountain
Free to all a healing stream; flows from Calvary’s mountain
Near the cross a trembling soul; love and mercy found us
There the bright and morning star; sheds it’s beams around us


Near the cross O Lamb of God! Bring it’s scenes before us
Help us walk from day to day; with it’s shadows o’er us

Near the cross we’ll watch and wait; hoping, trusting ever
Till we reach the golden strand; just beyond the river!

In the cross, in the cross: Be our glory ever. Till our troubled soul shall find
rest beyond the river.”

As we enter another New Year, let us remember that “God crowneth the year with His goodness…” (Ps.65:11).


------------------
Soul winning is soul loving.
see 1 Thes.5:14-15).

Your brother in Christ

David T. Battler

[This message has been edited by DavidTBattler (edited December 29, 2000).]


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