Here is the record of it as found in the 1893 General Conference Bulletin with A.T. Jones as the speaker. But first, in order to help us realize how important these lectures are to us, let us consider the words of Sister White in regard to them:

"There have been things written to me in regard to THE MOVINGS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD at the last Conference (1893), and at the College, which clearly indicate that because these blessings were not lived up to, minds have been confused, and THAT WHICH WAS LIGHT FROM HEAVEN has been called excitement. I have been made sad to have this matter viewed in this light. We must be very careful not to grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in pronouncing THE MINISTRATION OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT a species of fanaticism. How shall we understand THE WORKINGS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD if it was not revealed IN CLEAR AND UNMISTAKABLE LINES." 1 SM 130.

We turn now to Elder A.T. Jones:

"Well, the latter rain is the loud cry of the third angel's message; it is the beginning of that message of glory that lightens the earth. But the latter rain is the teaching of righteousness. When did that message of the righteousness of God, as such, come to us as a people? (Congregation: "Four years ago.") Where? (Congregation: "At Minneapolis.") Yes. This point was brought up the other night, and can be read on page 183 of the Bulletin. I do not know that we can state it any more clearly than we did that night.

Now, that message of the righteousness of Christ is the loud cry. It is the latter rain. We have been praying for the latter rain here at this Conference already, haven't we? Have you? (Congregation: "Yes sir.") What were you looking for when your prayer was answered? Are you ready now to receive the latter rain? We have been praying here for the latter rain. Now there is the connection. The testimonies tell us what it is and Joel tells us what it is. I simply ask now, Are you ready to receive the latter rain? That is, are you ready to receive God's message of righteousness, according to righteousness? Let us look at it a little further. Joel says, according to the margin, that it is a teacher of righteousness, that which brings the teaching of righteousness according to righteousness. Whose idea of righteousness? (Congregation: "God's.") No, mine. (Congregation: "No.") Yes, mine will do! (Congregation: "No.") Why? If I receive the righteousness of Christ according to my idea, is not that enough? Is not that receiving the latter rain? Is not that receiving the righteousness of Christ? (Congregation: "No sir, it is your own righteouness.") But that is what is the matter with a good many people who have heard this message of the righteousness of Christ. They have received the message of the righteousness of Christ according to their own idea of what His righteousness is, and they have not the righteousness of Christ at all.

Now, let us ask again, how are we to receive that? How is that to be given?--'According to righteousness.' How, then, is it to be received?--'According to righteousness.' It is given 'according to righteousness,' and we must receive it 'according to righteousness.' We must receive it as it is given. But let us dwell further upon that thought; and I am in no hurry to get away from it, either. When we receive the teaching, that teaching of righteousness 'according to righteousness,' we must receive it according to God's idea of righteousness, and not according to our own measure of it. And he who thinks of receiving that message of Christ's righteousness according to his own idea of it, will miss it entirely. We are to receive it according to God's idea of it, and nothing else than God's idea of righteousness. Nothing else than that is righteousness.

There is a thought again that we had the other night, that when it was presented four years ago and all along since, some accepted it just as it was given, and were glad of the news that God had righteousness that would pass the judgment, and would stand accepted in His sight. A righteousness that is a good deal better than anything that people could manufacture by years and years of hard work. PEOPLE HAD WORN OUT THEIR SOULS ALMOST, TRYING TO MANUFACTURE A SUFFICIENT DEGREE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS TO STAND THROUGH THE TIME OF TROUBLE, AND MEET THE SAVIOR IN PEACE WHEN HE COMES; BUT THEY HAD NOT ACCOMPLISHED IT. These were so glad to find out that God had already manufactured a robe of righteousness and offered it as a free gift to every one that would take it, that would answer now, and in the time of the plagues, and in the time of judgment, and to all eternity, that they received it gladly just as God gave it, and heartily thanked the Lord for it. Others would not have anything to do with it at all; but rejected the whole thing. Others seemed to take a middle position. They did not fully accept it, neither did they reject it. They thought to take a middle position, and go along with the crowd, if the crowd went that way. And that is the way they hoped to receive the righteousness of Christ and the message of the righteousness of God. Others deliberately discounted the message about fifty per cent, and counted that the righteousness of God. And so, all the way between open and free deliberate and positive rejection of it,--all the way between--the compromises have been scattered ever since; and those who have taken that compromising position are no better prepared to-night to discern what is the message of the righteousness of Christ than they were four years ago." A.T. Jones, 1893 General Conference Bulletin, p.243,244.
__________________________________________
RECEIVING THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD AS GOD GIVES IT, ACCORDING TO HIS OWN IDEA OF IT!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 05, 2001).]

A remark: If you have noticed, in the previous post, Elder Jones touched briefly on the fact that the subject of the latter rain had been discussed in a previous meeting as recorded on page 183 of the General Conference Bulletin. I thought I would make this available to you. I find it quite interesting and very thought provoking.

Starting on page 182 of the Bulletin: "The time has come when Christ's friends should be known. And if it is a Seventh-day Adventist that is called in question for his standing in Christ and the message, let your friendship in Christ be known by standing by Him. Now we have a few minutes to talk upon how we got into this position, how these dangers came upon us. You remember the other evening when I was reading that second chapter of Joel, that one of the brethren, when I had read that 23rd verse,--Brother Corliss--called attention to the margin. Do you remember that? And I said we would have use for the margin at another time. Now all of you turn and read that margin. The 23rd verse says: 'Be glad, then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the Lord your God; for he hath given you the former rain, moderately." What is the margin? "A teacher of righteousness." He hath given you "a teacher of righteousness." How? "According to righteousness." "And he will cause to come down for you the rain;" then what will that be? When He gave the former rain, what was it? "A teacher of righteousness." And when He gives the latter rain what will it be? "A teacher of righteousness." Then is not that just what the testimony has told us in that article that has been read to you several times? "The loud cry of the third angel," the latter rain has already begun, "in the message of the righteousness of Christ." Is not that what Joel told us long ago? Has not our eye been held that we did not see? Did not we need the anointing? Brethren, what in the world do we need so much as that? How glad we ought to be that God sends His own Spirit in the prophets to show us, when we did not see! How infinitely glad we ought to be for that!

Well then the latter rain--the loud cry--according to the testimony, and according to the Scripture, is "the teaching of righteousness," and "according to righteousness," too. Now brethren, when did that message of the righteousness of Christ begin with us as a people? (One or two in the audience: 'Three years or four years ago.') Which was it, three or four? (Congregation: 'Four.') Yes, four. Were was it? (Congregation: 'Minneapolis.') What then did the brethren reject at Minneapolis? (Some in the Congregation: 'The loud cry.') What is that message of righteousness? The Testimony has told us what it is; the loud cry--the latter rain. Then what did the brethren in that fearful position in which they stood, reject at Minneapolis? They rejected the latter rain--the loud cry of the third angel's message.

Brethren, isn't it too bad? Of course the brethren did not know they were doing this, but the Spirit of the Lord was there to tell them they were doing it, was is not? But when they were rejecting the loud cry, 'the teaching of righteousness,' and then the Spirit of the Lord, by His prophet, stood there and told us what they were doing,--what then? Oh, then they simply set this prophet aside with all the rest. That was the next thing. Brethren, it is time to think of these things. It is time to think soberly, to think carefully." A.T. Jones, 1893 General Conference Bulletin, p.182,183.
___________________________________________
THEY REJECTED THE LATTER RAIN, THE LOUD CRY OF THE THIRD ANGEL, THE TEACHING OF RIGHTEOUSNESS ACCORDING TO RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Here is one of the Testimonies which was sent to warn them not to reject the latter rain message:

"I would speak in warning to those who have stood for years resisting light and cherishing the spirit of opposition. How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God's righteousness? God has given them His message. They bear the word of the Lord." T.M.96,97.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"Now I want to ask a few questions on what we have gone over. What is the latter rain? (Congregation: 'The teaching of righteousness according to righteousness.') What is the Loud Cry? (Congregation:'The message of the righteousness of Christ.') The Loud Cry has already begun in the message of the righteousness of Christ. Where does the latter rain come from? (Congregation: 'From God.') All of it? (Congregation: 'Yes.') What is it? "The Spirit of God."

Now let us just put two things together. The teaching of the righteousness according to righteousness--that is the Loud Cry; that is the latter rain; that is the righteousness of Christ. Is that so? (Congregation: 'Yes.')
The latter rain comes down from Heaven. How much of that latter rain comes out of me? (Congregation: 'None of it.') How much of it can I manufacture? (Congregation: 'Not any.')
Now is that so? (Congregation: 'Yes.') I cannot manufacture any of it? None of it springs from me at all? Where does it come from? (Congregation: 'Heaven.') Will you take it that way? Will you receive it from Heaven? (Congregation: 'Yes.') ("In the work of God humanity can originate nothing." C.O.L.418)

Now that is where we came to the other night. Are you ready to take it from Heaven? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Is everybody in this house to-night willing and ready to take righteousness from Heaven? (Congregation: 'Amen!.') According to God, without asking that God shall get some of it from us? Are you? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Whoever is willing to take righteousness from Heaven can receive the latter rain (Congregation: 'Amen!'); whoever is not, but wants the Lord to get some of it out of him, he cannot have the latter rain, he cannot have the righteousness of God, he cannot have the message of the righteousness of Christ.

What is the latter rain? (Congregation: 'Righteousness.') Are we in the time of the latter rain? (Congregation: 'Yes.') What are we to ask for? (Congregation: 'Rain.') What is it? (Congregation: 'The teaching of righteousness according to righteousness.') Where is it to come from? (Congregation: 'Heaven.') Can we have it? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Then the latter rain being the righteousness of God, his message of righteousness, the loud cry, it all being that, and that to come down from Heaven, we are now in the time of it, we are to ask for it, and receive it. Then what is to hinder us from receiving the latter rain now? (Congregation: 'Unbelief.')" A.T. Jones, 1893 General Conference Bulletin, p.358,359.
__________________________________________
ARE WE WILLING TO RECEIVE THE LATTER RAIN AS GOD GIVES IT?

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"But not all are following the light. Some are moving away from the safe path, which at every step is a path of humility. God has committed to his servants a message for this time... I would not now rehearse before you the evidences given in the past two years (four years now) of the dealings of God by His chosen servants; but the present evidence of His working is revealed to you, and you are now under obligation to believe." E.G. White quoted by Elder Jones during lecture # 15 in 1893.

Believe what? What message is there referred to that God has given to His servants for this time? (Congregation: 'The message of righteousness.') The message of the righteousness of Jesus Christ. This is a Testimony that had been despised, rejected, and criticised for two years, and two years have passed since that time. But now the present evidence of His working is revealed, and now what does God say to every one of us? 'You are now under obligation to believe" that message. Then whoever does not believe it simply has to answer to God, does he not? That is all. Well, then, let us begin.

There is, however, another word to which I wish to call attention. You will remember that I read Isa.59:6 in the last lesson; it was about those people who were trying to cover themselves with their works. In the fourth verse we have these words: 'None calleth for justice.' After the lesson Brother Starr called my attention to the German translation, and that, he says, is: 'None preacheth righteousness.' I looked at the revised version and that has it: 'None calleth for righteousness.' I looked at Young's literal translation, and that likewise reads: 'None calleth for righteousness.' So you see the thought as expressed in this verse, 'None sueth,' that is to say, to court, to ask for, to beseech, 'for righteousness.' None calleth for that. The same idea is conveyed in the German, only it is put in other words, 'None preacheth righteousness.' Well, is not that what the Lord says? They are trying to cover themselves with their works, and that is not righteousness.

Isaiah 54, last sentence of the chapter: 'This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of Me, saith the Lord.' Their righteousness is of whom? of themselves? (Congregation: 'Of the Lord.') Their righteousness is of their works? No, 'their righteousness is of Me, saith the Lord.' What do you say? (Congregation: 'Amen!) Than any man who expects, looks for, or hopes for any righteousness that does not come from God, what then? What has he? (Voice: 'Filthy rags.') It is no righteousness at all. Even those who want to get it out of their works, will it work that way? (Congregation: 'No.')
Is that of God? (Congregation: 'No sir.')
A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.B. p.359.
_________________________________________
WE ARE NOW UNDER OBLIGATION TO BELIEVE!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"The only way that God can get into our works is by having Him to start with, and having His righteousness to begin with; and our only ground of hope is in the righteousness of Christ imputed to us, and in that wrought in us by His Holy Spirit. Do you see it is Christ in us, that living presence that does the righteous work, and that is by the Holy Spirit. That is what the Holy Spirit brings; that is the outpouring of the latter rain, is it not? You see we cannot study anything else. That is the message for us now. One interest will prevail, one subject will swallow up every other, Christ and His righteousness. Matt.6:33.

Shall we receive the message? When we receive the message what do we receive? (Congregation: 'Christ.') When we receive Him what have we? (Voice: 'The Holy Spirit. The latter rain.') This will come more fully afterward.

Now another thing, brethren. I do not want you to put off until after the meeting, your receiving of it. You do not need to do that at all. What the Lord wants is for you and me to come here each evening and sit down and receive that just exactly as He gives it. Just exactly as He says it. You just open your mind and heart to the Lord, and say, 'Lord, that is so.' (Congregation: 'Amen.') 'Well,' says one, 'are we to sit down here and take everything that is said without any question at all?'--No, not in that sense. But we are to sit down here and have such a measure of the Spirit of God that we can see what He gives through that word which is the truth, and then take it because it is the truth of God. (Congregation: 'Amen.')" A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.Bulletin, p.360.
__________________________________________
WE CANNOT STUDY ANYTHING ELSE!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

Can we not trust God to give to us what He wants us to have? Brethren, there is a question in that that I want to ask: When we come into a place like this, come with hundreds of people who are seeking the Lord, come asking the way to Zion, with our faces thitherward, do we need to sit here suspiciously looking cross-eyed at the Lord as though we did not dare to trust Him for what he would give? Is that honest? (Congregation: 'No.') Is that fair? (Congregation: 'No.') No sir. I believe this much in the Lord; that when we come together with our hearts seeking Him, every one that lays his heart wide open to receive what the Lord has to give, will not receive anything but what God gives. And the man who comes into such a place as this, with his suspicions aroused and with a readiness to look askance at the Lord--that man is not treating the Lord as a person ought to treat the Lord: he is treating the Lord just as a person might fairly treat the devil. Is he not?

Now, brethren, let us treat the Lord honestly; let us be honest with Him, and He will be honest with us. 'To him that showeth himself froward the Lord will show himself froward.' If you and I treat the Lord honestly, He will treat us just exactly like God treats people. So I say, we need not come into this house with a particle of suspicion as to whether the Lord is going to give us things straight. He will do it; and I am going to expect He will do it, and so I am going to receive lots of blessing out of this thing. That is settled.

Now put those two things together: 'Their righteousness is of Me, saith the Lord.' He who receives it, what does he receive? (Congregation: 'A gift.') He who receives it as the gift that it is, receives what? (Congregation: 'Righteousness.') According to what? God's idea of righteousness. Will He give us anything than that which is righteousness in His own sight, and according to His own will? (Congregation: 'No.') Do you see that point? Then he who does not receive the righteousness of God as the free gift of God, does he have it? (Congregation: 'No.') and he cannot so have it, you see, because it is a gift. It is of God. It comes from God by the precious gift that it is. And therefore it being of God, and He giving it of His own gift, it is left to me to get it in His own way. He gives what is His own and He gives it according to His own idea. That is the genuine article; that is the righteousness of God alone.

Then don't you see in that there can be no room for a single thread of human invention? We cannot get it in there at all. Don't you see what ample provision the Lord has made that we may have the perfect robe which He Himself hath woven, which is the righteousness of God itself, and which will make us complete now, and in the time of the plagues, and in every other time, and throughout eternity? Brethren, I am glad that that is so. I am just as glad as I can be." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.B. p.360,361.
_____________________________________________
THERE IS NO ROOM FOR A SINGLE THREAD OF HUMAN INVENTION!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 08, 2001).]

"A sister told me not long ago that before that time four years ago (1888) she had just been lamenting her estate, and wondering how in the world the time was ever going to come for the Lord to come, if He had to wait for His people to get ready to meet Him. For she said the way she had been at it--and she had worked as hard as anybody in this world, she thought--she saw that she was not making progress fast enough to bring the Lord in any kind of reasonable time at all; and she could not make out how the Lord was going to come.
She was bothered about it; but she said when the folks came home from Minneapolis and they said, 'Why the Lord's righteousness is a gift, and we can have it now.' 'O,' said she, 'That made me glad; that brought light; for then I could see how the Lord could come pretty soon. When He Himself gives us the garment, the clothing, the character, that fits us for the judgment and for the time of trouble, I could then see how He could come just as soon as He wanted to.' 'And,' said she, 'it made me glad, and I have been glad ever since.' Brethren, I am glad of it too, all the time.

Now there is sense in that thing to-day. You know we have all been in that same place. You know the time was when we actually sat down and cried because we could not do well enough to satisfy our own estimate of right doing; and as we were expecting the Lord to come soon, we dreaded the news that it was so near; for how in the world were we going to be ready? Thank the Lord He can get us ready. (Congregation: 'Amen.') He provides the wedding garment. The master of the wedding feast always provided the wedding garment. He is the Master of the wedding supper now; and He is going to come pretty soon; and He says, 'Here is clothing that will fit you to stand in that place.' Now there will be some folks that cannot attend that feast, because they have not on the wedding garment, but the Lord offers it as a free gift to all, and as to the man who does not take it--who is to blame?" A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.B. p.361.
____________________________________________
HE HIMSELF GIVES US THE CLOTHING!

If you please, I would like to quote the words of Ellen White which I believe are most appropriate at this point:

"Some seem to feel that they must be on probation and must prove to the Lord that they are reformed, before they can claim His blessing(His righteousness). But these dear souls may claim the blessing even now. They must have His grace, the Spirit of Christ, to help their infirmities, or they cannot form a Christian character. Jesus loves to have us come to Him as we are--sinful, helpless, dependent... He who will lay hold of Christ's righteousness need not wait one moment that he himself may blot out his own sins. He need not wait until he has made a suitable repentance before he may take hold upon Christ's righteousness. We do not understand the matter of salvation. It is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it." F.W38,64.
____________________________________________
WE BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD AND IT IS COUNTED UNTO US FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 07, 2001).]

"The true religion, the only religion of the Bible, that teaches forgiveness only through the merits of a crucified and risen Savior, that advocates righteousness by the faith of the Son of God, has been slighted, spoken against, ridiculed, and rejected. It has been denounced as leading to enthusiasm and fanaticism." T.M.468.

"It is quite possible that Elders Jones and Waggoner may be overthrown by the temptations of the enemy; but if they should be, this would not prove that they had had no message from God or that the work that they have done was all a mistake." Letter 24, 1892, p.5 (To Elder Uriah Smith, Sept.19, 1892)

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"Another thing: Do you believe now--let us have that settled before we go any further. I want to know how many people in this house actually believe, right down honestly in their hearts, that God is able to say what He means when He says it? (Congregation: 'Yes.') What the Lord asks of you and me is stated in 2 Tim.2:7, and it is the key of all Bible study; it is God's directions for Bible study; 'Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.' The only things He asks of you and me to consider is what He says; and if we have to consider it for ten, fifteen, or twenty years to find out what it means, we will find that it was worth twenty years of waiting; we need not be disappointed at all. Bear in mind that the longer you have to consider a text to find out what is in it, the more it will be worth when you get it. So there is no place for discouragement, ever. Therefore if I cannot measure the depths of it, I am going to be glad that it is so deep that when I do get it, I shall rejoice as long as I live.

All we have to do in these lessons is to consider what He says, and depend upon Him to give us the understanding. Luke 24:45. That is all. That is all I can do, and every one that will do that will get more out of it than the one who does not consider what He says.

Then 'their righteousness is of Me, saith the Lord,' That is what He says. (Congregation: 'Yes.') It is a gift of righteousness; it is a gift; is that so? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Now how do we receive a gift? 'Their righteousness is of Me;' He gives it, a free gift; how do we get it? (Congregation: 'By faith.') By faith. Let us bear in mind also the definition which we have studied, of what faith is: not a satanic belief; that is not faith at all; but a submission of the will to God, a yielding of the heart to Him, the affections fixed upon Him,--there is faith. That is God's idea of faith. And when we read of faith, and get His word of belief which He has spoken in His word--that is what He means.

Mark this: it is received by faith; it is known by faith: but let us read the text and see that it is so. Rom.1:17. The 16th verse is talking about the gospel. 'For therein is the righteousness... revealed from faith to faith.' What alone can obtain it, then? (Congregation: 'Faith.') Not from faith to works; but from faith to faith. But what is faith? Submission of the will to Him; yielding of the heart to Him, the affections fixed upon Him. That is surrender of self, and takes what God says as the fact; in other words, faith is just simply this: that when God says a thing, and you and I read it, we say, 'That is so.' That is faith.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom.10:17. What is the source of faith, then? (Congregation: 'The word of God.') How does faith come to us? (Congregation: 'By hearing the word of God.') Faith comes to us by the word of God. That is the source, the fountain of faith. Then when that word is read, you yield to that and say, 'That is so.' I take that as it says; with no attempt to explain it even to myself. I take it as God says it; I receive it just as He says it; I rest upon it just as He says it; He giving me understanding of it,--then I want to know whether I do not receive in that word and from it just what He has in it to give to me. Assuredly. That also precludes our getting any thread of human invention into it.

Then it is of faith; it comes by faith; we receive it that way. Then don't you see, that with the man who does not understand, who begins to question righteousness by faith alone, the trouble is that his soul is not submitted to God, his heart is not yielded to God, the affections are not fixed upon Him? That is the difficulty. All the trouble that ever comes to anybody in this world over justification by faith is in the heart; in the refusal to submit to God; and that is the carnal mind; as we read the other night, the carnal mind cannot comprehend it; does not know it." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.Bulletin, p.361,362.
_____________________________________________
I TAKE THAT AS IT SAYS! THAT IS FAITH! FROM THE HEART MEN BELIEVE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"Don't you see then how that the works take care of themselves in him who has faith in Jesus Christ,--I do not mean that satanic belief; I mean the man who has faith. Then don't you see what those people miss who get their minds on works, more than on Christ? They miss the very incentive and the very power that alone can do the things that are good, to reach and minister to the sick in the right spirit, to visit the poor and minister to them in the right spirit. Have you not seen people that have ministered to the poor and the sick, in a way that makes those people feel worse than if they had not gone there at all? That is not the kind of ministering Jesus Christ does. No, sir. It is Christ in you. And when He goes with you and in you there stands the testimony, 'It will win even from worldlings the statement, They are like Jesus.'

Did not Paul strive, says one, and does not the Savior say, 'Strive to enter in at the strait gate'? Yes. But how can I strive when I have nothing to strive with? 'Without Me you can do nothing.'--how much? (Congregation: 'Nothing.') Is that so? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Then without Christ I want to know how you are going to strive. Paul says, "I also labor, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily." Col.1:29. I want you to think of that. 'Without Me ye can do nothing.' 'Dead in trespasses and sins.' Is that so? How can a dead man strive? 'When we were without strength." Rom.5:6. Were we withouth strength? (Congregation: 'Yes.') That is so. Then how can a man strive who has no strength? Don't you see, then, that it is an utter satanic perversion of the divine idea, to go to striving and working and wearing the life out in order to get to Christ to obtain this gift of justification. No; it is the free gift of God to every man, and every man who receives it, receives Jesus Christ Himself indeed.

Then where does the striving come in? To find the Lord? or to be used by the power which the Lord gives, which He puts into us? Which is it? 'The love of Christ constraineth us.' 2 Cor.5:14. Constrains, impels, drives on with an irresistible force. That is the idea that is in the word striving. Other translations give it, 'agonize' to enter into the strait gate. And they do really and bodily agonize and wear themselves out, doing penance, just like any other Catholic--and they will do it all in order to move the Lord, so that He will have pity on them. That is not the thought.

It is agonizing; but everybody who is acquainted with it, knows that the word is taken from the Greek games, the Greek races. One who entered the games was an agonistes. They started out to run a race. Now what does he do? He just strains every nerve to win the race; every faculty of his being is devoted to the object before him, isn't it? (Congregation: 'Yes, sir.') Now that is bodily exercise; that is bodily striving, agonizing. Is this that kind that Christ is talking about? (Congregation: 'No.') What kind is this? Spiritual. Yes, of course. Then carrying that thought from bodily exercise, that bodily straining of every nerve,--carrying that into the spiritual realm, what does it signify? Doesn't it signify that complete surrender of the will to Christ, that surrender of the heart, and the affections to Him, that makes no reserve? Then His power moving in us, His divine power urging us on, don't you see? I say again, that in all cases he who believes in Jesus Christ most fully will work most for Him.

Now let us have this word, and that will be the best close I could make to the whole thing to-night. 'Steps to Christ,' page 71. 'The heart that rests most fully upon Christ will be the most earnest and active in labor for Him.' Amen. (Congregation: 'Amen.') Do not forget that now. Do not think that the man who says that he rests wholly upon Jesus Christ is either a physical or spiritual loafer. If he shows this loafing in his life, he is not resting on Christ at all, but on his own self.

No, sir; the heart that rests most fully upon Christ will be most active in labor for Him. That is what real faith is. That is the faith that will bring to you the outpouring of the latter rain; that is the faith that will bring to you and me the teaching of righteousness according to righteousness-- the living presence of Jesus Christ--to prepare us for the loud cry and the carrying of the third angel's message in the only way in which it can be carried from this Conference." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C. Bulletin, p.310,302.
____________________________________________
THE FAITH THAT WILL BRING TO US THE LIVING PRESENCE OF JESUS CHRIST.

"Into the hearts of all those who are united to God by FAITH, the golden oil of LOVE flows freely to shine out again in good WORKS, in real, heartfelt service for God." C.O.L.419.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"The man that is so anxious and so dreadfully afraid that you will not let him have any works to do, and that you are going to destroy all his works--if Christ is dwelling in the heart, he will find works to do. Brethren, don't be so anxious about works; find the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will find work, more than you can do. (Congregation: 'Amen!') But the difficulty is, when the people get their minds on works, and works, and works, instead of upon Jesus Christ in order to work, they pervert the whole thing. Satan does not care how much a man professes justification by faith, and righteousness by faith, so long as he keeps his mind on works. That is just the thought that is before us here in this definition of faith that we read the other night. Let me read it again. Page 63, Steps to Christ: 'When we speak of faith there is a distinction that should be borne in mind. There is a kind of belief that is wholly different from faith. The existence and power of God, the truth of His word, are facts that even Satan and his hosts cannot at heart deny."

They believe that, but what power does their believing it bring to them to make them righteous, or to enable them to do good works? What power is there in their belief? What power does that give to them? (Congregation: 'None.') No, it is away off there, simply a theory, held off to look at, held as a theory, held as a creed; and so, a spirit even, can believe in the existence and power of God; he can believe the truth of the Bible; he can believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, the holy One of God, and be a devil. Many can believe all this in this way and profess justification by faith at the same time; and they can be great sticklers for what they call 'good works' at the same time. Yes they can work the very skin of their bones in order to do good, in order to be righteous, in order to move God, as we read the other night. You know they do it. You know they make pilgrimages, and do penances, and fairly wear themselves out; and in addition to these things they will shut themselves off from every earthly comfort.

But who is doing the work? Who in these things does the work? Self does the work in order to be righteous, in order to have that treasure of merit that will give an increase of grace in this world and an increase of glory in Heaven. That is what it is for, is it not? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Who is doing this then? (Congregation: 'Self.') Yes sir. Has the mind, has the heart been yielded to God? Are the affections fixed upon Him? Is the surrender of all to Him? No. And therefore it is still self in all. Who then is to do the work in order that it may be good works always? Let us read it: 'If Christ is dwelling in our hearts, He will work in us 'both to will and to do of His good pleasure.'" A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C. Bulletin, p.298.
______________________________________
THAT IT MAY BE GOOD WORKS ALWAYS!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"I received a letter a little while ago from Brother Starr in Australia, I will read two or three sentences because they come in well just at this place in our lessons:--'Sister White says that we have been in the time of the latter rain since the Minneapolis meeting.'

That is just what we have found in our own study of these lessons, is it not? Brethren, how much longer is the Lord going to wait before we will receive it? He has been trying these four years to have us receive the latter rain, how much longer is He going to wait before we receive it? And the fact of the matter is, something is going to be done. Those who will seek the Lord that way, who will receive His message that way, will get what He wants to give. Those who will not do that will be left to themselves, and when that is done it will be forever. And that is the fearfulness of the situation at this meeting; that is what lends to this meeting its fearful character. The danger is that there will be some here who have resisted this for four years, or perhaps who have not resisted it that long, who will now fail to come to the Lord in the way to receive it, and fail to receive it as the Lord gives it, and will be passed by. A decision will be made by the Lord, by ourselves in fact, at this meeting. On which side are you going to be found?

Here is another word that teaches the same thing that we had last night in our lesson, to receive the word of God just as it is, just as He says it, with no question of our own. Brother Starr says that he was talking with Sister White one day about the angels at Mt.Sinai at the giving of the law, and he says this:--

"She saw that the angels, ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, surrounded the people of God as they assembled around the mountain, and all above them, thus making a great living tabernacle from which every evil angel was excluded; that not one word that was to come from the voice of Jesus should be altered in any mind, or one suggestion of doubt, or evil, to a soul, be made."

Now that is what we want here. (Congregation: 'Amen.') What we want right here is for each one to just put up his own prayer himself, for himself, to the Lord to cover us with such a canopy as that at this Institute, that when the words of the Lord are read, not one word shall be altered in any mind from just what God speaks, and that not one suggestion of doubt or evil shall come to a single soul; but that we, each one may receive just what the Lord says in His own way, as He says it, and as He means it.

Then further from Brother Starr: "In a late testimony to an individual here, Sister White was forbidden to send it to him in writing, but to read it personally, for the reason that evil angels are at work substituting words for those that are written. Other words are pronounced in his ears and he gets a meaning just opposite from that designed of God."

Well if that man needs that, is he the only one in the world that needs it? If Satan is working that way, is he going to confine himself to Australia? Then don't you and I need to have our ears anointed as well as our eyes, that we may hear? And does not that word of Jesus, 'Take heed how ye hear,' come to us?" A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C. Bulletin, p.377.
_______________________________________
TAKE HEED HOW YOU HEAR!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"Now turn again to Romans 4th chapter. We want to read of the righteousness of God, and while we read of this righteousness of God, we want to receive it just as the Lord has spoken it. Don't forget now, we want that canopy of angels over us and around us, that no word may be perverted to our understanding. We want to receive it just as He gave it.

'What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.'

What was it that was counted unto him for righteousness? (Congregation: 'He believed God.') When God said a thing, Abraham believed it. He said 'that is so.' What was it that the Lord said to him? Let us turn and read, because that is important to us. Genesis 15:4-6. The Lord "brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the Lord; and He counted it unto him for righteousness.'

Now do you believe that Abraham became righteous in just that way? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Honestly now, do you? (Congregation: 'Yes, sir.') Do you know he did? (Congregation: 'Yes.') The Lord called Abraham out and said, Look at the stars and tell the number of them, so shall thy seed be. Abraham said, 'Amen.' And the Lord said, 'You are right.'

Now do you know that it was as simple a transaction as that? Was it just like calling you and me out of this Tabernacle, and the Lord saying to us, See the stars; tell the stars if thou be able to number them. Yes, so shall such and such be. And we say, 'Amen.' And He should say, 'You are righteous.' Suppose the Lord called you and me out to-night. No, he can do it without calling us out. He called Abraham out doors, to show him the stars; but He can show us sins without calling us out doors. Has He shown you a great many sins? Has He? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Now He says, If thou be able to number them, 'they shall be white as snow.' What do you say? (Congregation: 'Amen.') Then what does the Lord say? (Congregation: 'You are righteous.') Are you? (Voice: 'Yes.') Do people become righteous as easy as that? Is it as simple a transaction as that? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Amen. Thank the Lord. Now let us turn again to the 4th of Romans and get the particular verse where this is told. Rom.4:23,24. 'Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe in Him that raised up Jesus from the dead.'" A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C. Bulletin, p.377,378.

"THE MATTER OF SALVATION IS JUST AS SIMPLE AS ABC. BUT WE DONT UNDERSTAND IT." F.W.64
___________________________________________
BELIEVE THE WORD BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH, BECAUSE GOD SAYS IT, AND YOUR FAITH IS COUNTED UNTO YOU FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"Some of the brethren were saying this morning in the social meeting, that last night they felt as though they would like to praise the Lord out loud, but they thought they had better not. 'Quench not the Spirit.' If you want to praise the Lord for anything, the Lord tells you to do it. We might as well start here as any other time to have Seventh-day Adventists praise the Lord, or say, 'Praise the Lord,' in meeting. We might as well start that here as anywhere.

What the Lord said to Abraham, Abraham believed: And what He says to you and me, you and I believe, then we get the same results. It is not some particular thing that the Lord says, that we must believe in order to be righteous; whatever He says believe it, and then He says, 'you are right.'

I would like to know whether it is not so, that when the Lord says a thing He is right? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Then when I say 'That is so,' am I not right? (Congregation: 'Yes.') What in the world hinders me from being right? Can you tell? I will say it again: When the Lord says a thing, is He right? (Congregation: 'Yes.') He is right in saying it; then when I say 'That is so,' when I say, 'Amen,' when I say 'be it so,' when I say, 'Yes, that is so,' then am I not right? Yes. Am I not right just as certainly as He is? Certainly. Can even He say I am wrong? (Congregation: 'No.') When you say the same thing, can He say that you are wrong? (Congregation: 'No.') Well then, when we are in such a situation that the Lord Himself cannot say that you and I are wrong, I would like to know what in the world is the reason we are not right? And believing God puts us in just that situation, as he did Abraham. I would like to know what can keep us out of Heaven then? What can keep us out of the kingdom of God, then?

The only thing that can keep you and me out of the kingdom of God is to tell the Lord that He lies; and if you and I will stop that business we will get into Heaven all right. That is just what people need to do, to stop telling the Lord that He lies. 'He that believeth not God hath made Him a liar.' 1 John 5:10. But whoever would make God a liar, is a liar himself, and liars cannot get into the kingdom of God.--Without are liars' and all those other people referred to in Rev.21:8,27, and 22:15. Then the thing we want to do is to stop lying. Let us quit right now. Stop lying. No difference what the Lord says, you say, 'That is so.'

Don't you see this is the whole story, and the very idea that Brother Haskell was trying hard to inculcate upon us here in our lessons, that there is salvation in every line of the Scriptures. For God says it, don't He? Well, when God says it, and we say it, then we are righteous, that is the end of it. God said that to Abraham; Abraham said, 'Amen, that is so, I take that.' So this shows that there is salvation in every line of the Scriptures, in every thing God says." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.Bulletin, p.378.
_____________________________________
THE MATTER OF SALVATION IS JUST AS SIMPLE AS ABC. BUT WE DONT UNDERSTAND IT! f.w.64

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"The story is simple enough, the mischief of it is, though, that we allow so much of Satan's devices to get in to mystify it. That is the mischief of it. God does not want that. He wants it to be just as simple as He has told it; and He has told it so simply that a little child can understand it and receive it. And you who do not receive it as a little child, cannot receive it. So I say again, that it is no difference what God says or when He says it; whatever He says, we, like Abraham, say, 'Amen, Lord I believe that, that is so.' Then He says you are right. And you are right, too.

Let us read on now, in Rom.4:3-5. 'For what saith the Scriputre? Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.'

Believeth on him that justifieth who? (Congregation: 'The ungodly.') Who is it, in this world, that the Lord justifies? (Congregation: 'The ungodly.) The ungodly; I am glad of it; for that assures me everlasting salvation. If it were otherwise there would be no hope for me. If God justified people who were only half saints that would leave me out. If He justified people who had only one good thing, that would leave me out. If He justified people who had only a little good about them, that would leave me out. But, thank the Lord, He is so good, He loves me so much, He has such wondrous power, the divine power of His righteousness is so great, that when He pronounces that word upon such a corrupt sinner as I am it makes me through and through righteous in the sight of God. (Congregation: 'Amen.') That is the worth of God's word 'righteousness.'

And because He is so good, because there is such divine power in His righteousness, and because He justifies the ungodly, therefore I have the perfect security of His everlasting salvation. Then what in the world is going to keep me from being glad? Can you imagine anything that is going to keep me from being glad? Can you imagine anything that is going to keep you from being glad? It is not enough for me to be glad; I want you to be glad; I can attend to my part of it. (Voice: 'I am glad.') Amen.

"To him that worketh not.' Yes, if it required works I could not do enough. If there was anything at all required it would leave me out. But O, as we read the other night, ye have 'sold yourself for naught' and 'ye are redeemed without money.' But not without a price; but lo, He has paid the price. And the blessing of it is that He was rich enough to pay the price, and the other blessing is He was good enough to spend all His riches in paying the price, that He might have me. He can have me.

I have heard brethren say, 'I thank the Lord I have confidence in Him.' I thank the Lord He has confidence in me! I think it is little enough for a man, for whom the Lord does that much, to have confidence in the Lord; but to think that the Lord would make such a wondrous investment in me with the confidence of ever getting the worth of it; His confidence in me I cannot grasp. That is too wonderful for me. And I am thankful that the Lord had that much confidence in His risk upon me. For that reason I am so glad I dont know what else to do. Brethren, the Lord is good. (Congregation: 'Amen.') Then let us trust Him." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C. Bulletin, p.379.
__________________________________
NOTHING CAN TAKE THE PLACE OF SIMPLE FAITH c.o.l.159.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"'As David describeth the blessedness of the man'? Well, I should say so. I should say so. The blessedness of the man 'unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works.' Brethren, do you know the blessedness of that man? or are there some in this house who know only the distressedness of that man, who tries to get it by works? There is no blessedness of that kind; the Bible does not describe any blessedness of that kind. That is all distressedness only, and you know it. But God imputeth righteousness without works saying, 'O the blessedness of the man.'

There is a blessedness to that man; I tell you there is. O the blessedness of the man to whom He will not impute sin. To whom the Lord will not impute sin because he has received the gift of Jesus Christ, and all that God has given in Him, and when He looks at that man, He sees Jesus Christ; He does not impute sin to that man at all. Oh the blessedness of the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin!

'Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? For we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.' Three times, you see, there inside nine verses, three times the Lord has said it over, FAITH COUNTS FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Look at it. 'Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness.' 'To him that believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.' 'We say that FAITH WAS RECKONED TO ABRAHAM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.' Brethren, let us do like Abraham did; let us say, 'Amen.' (Congregation: 'Amen.') Counting that what God has promised He is able to perform.' (Congregation: 'Amen.') And then thank the Lord that He imputes to us righteousness, and makes us free.

'How was it then reckoned? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision?' Did not he have to go and circumcise himself and all his house before he could be righteous? (Congregation: 'No, sir.') 'When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? When he was a Gentile. Is that so? (Congregation: 'Yes, sir.') Abraham was counted righteous when he was a Gentile? A heathen? (Congregation: 'Yes, sir.') Before he was curcumcised? 'And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness' that he had? (Congregation: 'Righteousness of the faith which he had.') Doesn't it say, he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness which he had? (Congregation: 'No; 'A seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had.') Yes, sir; Yes, sir; 'he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had.' (Congregation: 'Amen.') A seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had; not the righteousness that he had; but the righteousness of the faith which he had; because the righteousness that he had came by the faith that he had.

'That he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised.' Is that so? Father of all them that believe God. (Congregation: 'Amen.') All them that believe. Is that so? (Congregation: 'Yes, sir.') That righteousness might be imputed unto them also. He is the father of all them that believe, what for? 'That righteousness might be imputed unto them also.' Come along then. 'Father of all them that believe.' No wonder he could not count them, only the mind of God could count the seed of Abraham. They are indeed numberless as the stars, but lo, of the stars it is said, 'He calleth them all by name, and the blessing of it is, He is going to give us a new name. I tell you, brethren, the Lord loves us. Indeed He does." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.Bulletin, p.380.
______________________________________
FAITH COUNTS FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS FOR "FROM THE HEART MEN BELIEVE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS."

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

Thankyou for all your efforts here. I have enjoyed reading through your posts. You are putting a lot of work into this!

As I understand it, the purpose of this particular thread is for people to question the beliefs of the SDA Church; and I guess I am wondering if you have questioned anything yet? Did I miss that somewhere?

Don't stop, just because of my questions! I want to read your next post/s.

------------------
Courage is fear that has
said it's prayers.
Therefore, the Bible
says: "Be of good
courage!"

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure.' Oh! The Lord wants His promise to be sure to us, does He? And in order that it might be sure to us, where did He put it? 'Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure.' Look now; think of that carefully. I will say it slowly. 'Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace.' The word 'that' is what I am after. What does it mean? In order that, just this way. 'That it might be by grace.' Then it is of grace, is it? (Congregation: 'Yes.') It is of faith, that it might be by grace; what for? 'That it might be sure.' Then he who receives anything from God by faith, he is the man that is sure of that thing, isn't he? (Congregation: 'Yes.') And he who thinks of getting anything from God in any other way than by faith, never can be sure that he has it, because in fact he does hot have it at all. Do you see that? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Let us act that way.

'Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all.' Good. (Congregation: 'Amen.') To all. To all. 'To the end the promise might be sure to all the seed.' To Abraham He said, 'I have made thee a father of many nations, before Him whom he believed, even God; who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.' What does He do? (Congregation: 'Quickeneth.') What is that? (Congregation: 'Makes alive.') Giveth life unto the dead. 'Calleth those things that be not as though they were.' When He calls a thing that is not as though it were, then is it? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Did He not do that when He made the worlds? There were no worlds; He called them; what then? (Congregation: 'They were.') There was no light; He called the light; 'There was light.'

In me is no righteousness; here is all ungodliness; here is all uncleanness; God has set forth that same One who declared the word and the worlds came, and who declared the word 'light,' and light came--He has set forth that same One to declare righteousness in place of this body of sin. (Congregation: 'Praise the Lord.') In this place, this body, the character of sin, He calls that which is not as though it were, and, thank the Lord, it is. (Congregation: 'Amen.') And I am glad of it. Calleth those things that be not as though they were.' A sinner is not righteous; the ungodly are ungodly; but God calls that which is not, as though it were, and it is. (Congregation: 'Amen.') It is." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.Bulletin, p.380,381.
_____________________________________
IT IS OF FAITH THAT IT MIGHT BE BY GRACE. WHAT FOR? THAT THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT MIGHT BE SURE TO ALL!

TO BE CONTINUED!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

I am not sure what you meant by your other comment. All I can tell you is that we are under obligation to believe these messages because they are "the movings of the Spirit of God," the message of the righteousness which is of God by faith! These messages are to be repeated for the last time. The church will have a last opportunity to accept this message or else she will sealed her final rejection of God's mercy as the Jewish nation did in 34 AD. This latter rain message has been long over due, dont you think? God bless! ab

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited February 24, 2001).]

"'Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, so shall thy seed be. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about a hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: he staggered not at the promise of God though unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; and being fully persuaded, that what God has promised He is also able to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised for our justification.'

He was raised that we might be justified; raised for our justification. I am going to let Him accomplish what He was raised from the dead for. That is settled. He knows how to do it, and He can do it; and I am going to let Him.

Now the fifth chapter of Romans--'Therefore being justified by faith.' What do you say? (Congregation: 'Amen.') Therefore being made righteous, being justified by faith, 'we have peace with God.' And I know it; don't you? We have peace with God. He syas so. Then it is so. Even though it were not so. Then it is so. Even though it were not so, it is so after He calls those things that be not as though they were. We cannot understand it; but we can know it. I know it; and that is all I care to do.

'Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: by whom also we have access into this grace.' How did we get into this grace? By faith. We have it, thank the Lord. 'Wherein we stand.' Do we stand there indeed? (Congregation: 'Yes.') He says so; it is so, isn't it? He says so, and it is so. He says we stand there; and we do, thank the Lord. 'Wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.' Don't we? He says we rejoice, and we do. Because when He says we do, He is right; and we say, 'Amen,' and then we are right. 'And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also.' Tribulations will come along as easy as can be; but they will not amount to anything against us. 'For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared to the glory that shall be revealed'--not to us only but'--'in us,' which shall be a part of us. That is how we shall shine as the sun in the kingdom of our Father.

Well, that is the righteousness of God; that is how Abraham received it. What is the blessing of Abraham, then? (Congregation: 'Righteousness by faith.') How did he get it? (Congregation: 'By faith') The blessing of Abraham is not received except by that man who has the faith of Abraham, is that so? (Congregation: 'Yes, sir.')

'Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law.' Has He? He says He has; then He has. 'Being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree: that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ.' Why did Christ become a curse on the tree? That the blessing of Abraham might come on you and me. Why did He redeem us from the curse of the law? That the blessing of Abraham migt come on you and me. What is the blessing of Abraham? 'Righteousness by faith.' Christ died that you and I might be made righteous by faith. Brethren, insn't it awful when a man will rob Christ of the very thing for which He died, and want righteousness in some other way? Insn't it awful? Brethren, let us believe in Jesus Christ.

'That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ.' Now then we are redeemed from the curse of the law; Christ is made a curse for us, that the blessing of Abraham might come upon us. And what does that come upon us for? 'That we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.'

Then, when we as a people, we as a body, we as a church, have received the blessing of Abraham, what then? (Congregation: 'The latter rain.') The outpouring of the Spirit. It is so with the individual. When the individual believes in Jesus Christ, and obtains the righteousness which is by faith, then the Holy Spirit, which is the circumcision of the heart, is received by him. And when the whole people, as a church, receive the righteousness of faith, the blessing of Abraham, then what is to hinder the church from receiving the Spirit of God? (Congregation: 'Nothing.') That is where we are. What is to hinder, then, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit? (Voice: 'Unbelief.') Our lack of the righteousness of God, which is by faith,--that is what holds it back; for when that is received, it is given in order that we may receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Then let us be sure we have the blessing of Abraham, and then ask and we shall receive." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C. Bulletin, p.382,383.
_________________________________
WE ARE MADE RIGHTEOUS BY BELIEVING JUST WHAT GOD SAYS THAT WE MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

1 - God works through an organization - For example, He worked through the nation of Israel, and now He is working through the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

2 - The Seventh-day Adventist Church is an organization that will go through to the second coming of Jesus Christ - The nation of Israel rejected Him, however, the wheat, not the tares, within the Seventh-day Adventist Church will awaken from their sleep and not reject Him. When persecution looms, the tares will leave and the wheat still not awake will awaken or also be shaken out.

I haven't had a chance to read these posts in detail, however, I plan to do so later.

__________________________
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."
Romans 8:28

Daryl

Just over 10 years ago the pastor of a non-Adventist church group meeting in our building in Swan River was preaching word-for-word a series on the Latter Rain that Neal C. Wilson had penned for Ministry Magazine.

I only read it after he told me about it.

By the way, he said that he thought everything this "Ellen White person" said (as printed in the article) was "exactly right.

------------------
Cheer up ye pilgrims,
Be joyful and sing.
Jesus is Coming Again!

Pastor Andrew

This parable, which was a prophecy, has a double application. The parable deals with the wedding garment which all must have in order to successfully pass the investigative judgment. "By the king's examination of the guests at the feast is represented a work of judgment." C.O.L.310. The second fulfillment of this parable began in 1844 when Jesus entered the Most Holy Place of the sanctuary above to begin the work of investigative judgment. "At the appointed time the Bridegroom came, not to the earth, as the people expected, but to the Ancient of Days in Heaven, TO THE MARRIAGE." G.C.427.

But the marriage was not consummated in 1844 or shortly after. Because of unbelief, the work was not finished and the second coming was delayed. G.C.457.458. The first call of the parable came in 1888, that is, between 1888 and 1903. As we all know, just as the parable had predicted, the message was rejected. Jones and Waggoner were the servants who gave the first call. About 1903, Sister White said that we would have to remain in this world indefinitely because of unbelief. 1 SM 234,235.

Between the first and the second calls of the parable, there is the crucifixion. Between 1955 and 1957, we crucified the messages of the three angels when we repudiated the central pillar of our faith in order to gain the approval of the other churches. 18 meetings were held with representants of the Evangelical churches which ended in compromising the pillars of our faith. This was the crucifixion as prophesied in the parable. 1 SM 204,205.

After the crucifixion, "God's care and labor for the Jewish people had not lessened but increased." C.O.L.218. Likewise, though we have betrayed sacred trusts and declared that "We are one with our fellow denominational Christian groups in the fundamentals of the faith delivered to the saints," (Questions on Doctrine, p.32) "The Lord's care and labor for us have not lessened but increased."

After the crucifixion of Christ, the disciples were filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost and the second and final call to the professed people of God was given until the Jewish nation sealed her final rejection in 34 AD.

Now, the second call is to be given to our church by men of God's own choosing just as it happened in the time of the first fulfillment of this parable. The message which is to be given is found in the 1893 General Conference Bulletin. Elder A.T. Jones gave that message "in demonstration of the Holy Spirit," (T.M.91) and in 1SM 130 Sister White identified the content of his lectures as "the workings of the Spirit of God in clear and unmistakable lines." It is the teaching of righteousness according to righteousness, according to God's idea of what constitutes righteousness.

We are admonished to forget the human instrumentality. "The human agent is to be kept out of sight and God alone and His word are to be exalted." T.M.112.

The parable tells us that the majority will reject the invitation as did the Jews between 31 and 34 AD. But those who accept the call will be forced to leave the church they love. The ministers and leading men will not tolerate them very long and they will have no other choice but to go to the Gentiles. In other words, there will be those in the Church who will rise up against this solemn message and "this is what will cause a shaking among God's people." E.W. 270. But "Persecution will spread the light." D.A.354.

As the message is being proclaimed, "Men belonging to the different companies and revered by them will pass through, some with pleasing words, and others with wrathful looks and threatening gestures, and will fasten the cords which will be weakening. These men will be constantly saying, 'God is with us. We stand in the light. We have the truth.' I inquired who these men were, and was told that they were ministers and leading men who had rejected the light themselves and were unwilling that others should receive it." E.W.241.

This will be a terrible ordeal but nevertheless it must take place. Which side will we be on? Personally, I have studied these very messages for years. This has not been brought to my attention as of late. These messages, and what I have posted in this thread are only a small fraction of what is there in that Bulletin, and I know that indeed, as Sister White has said, Elder Jones's messages were "the ministration of the Holy Spirit of God."

We are to study these messages, accept them, and take them to our families and to our churches. I believe that with all my heart! History will be repeated. The work will be finished with men and women who are not too wise or too learned to believe just what God says. We must receive the righteousness of God as He gives it, as He gave it in 1893 which was 1888 "in special measure." 1893 G.C.Bulletin, p.494. God bless you all!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 01, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 01, 2001).]

These words were penned regarding the message given by Elders Jones and Waggoner. These lectures are "the workings of the Spirit of God in clear and unmistakable lines." 1 SM 130. If we do not accept this message we are rejecting the latter rain! Its that simple. We need to have our ears and our eyes anointed by the Holy Spirit that we may be able to distinguish between the work of God and that of man! The Lord calls upon each one of us to take hold of this message and share it with our families first and then with our brothers and sisters in the Church. It will not be long before it spreads like fire in the stumble and the work will be a complete success for Christ's righteousness will accomplish everything! 1 SM 118; F.W.27.
________________________________________
ONE INTEREST WILL PREVAIL, ONE SUBJECT WILL SWALLOW UP EVERY OTHER, CHRIST AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS! r&h dec 23,1890

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"Some have said they cannot see how a man can acknowledge himself to be wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, and don't know it, and at the same time be rejoicing in the Lord. Well, I would like to know how any one else can. I would like to know how a man is going to rejoice in the Lord, when he thinks he is all right himself. Can you tell? I can't imagine. But when a man knows that he is what the Lord says he is, and acknowledges that, and then finds that the Lord is so good that he will take him just as he is, and fits him to stand in the presence of God through all eternity, then that man has something to rejoice for. He can't do anything else.

Why, brethren, the Lord does not save us because we are so good, but because He is so good. Do not forget that. He does not save us, nor bless us in the work of God at all because we are so good, but becauwe He is so good and we are bad. And the blessedness of it is that He will bless us so much when we are so bad. And the rejoicing of the whole thing is that He saves us and makes us to relfect His own image, as bad as we are. That is where the rejoicing comes in. "He justifies the ungodly." Rom.4:5.

Well, about understanding that; I cannot understand it, but I know it is so, and that is all I care for. It will take eternity to explain it so we can understand it; but as long as I know that it is so, I am not going to trouble myself and worry about HOW the Lord can do it, or whether I can understand it. Are you? (Congregation: 'No.')

There is another point right here that we may bear in mind,--those who can't see that that it is so. Brethren, you tell the Lord over and over that it is so, and then you will see it. You will not understand it then, but you will see it. You can't see how it can be, but you see that it is a fact; and that is the only way you can. Can I see it as long I keep myself from it?--No. It is a thing that pertains to the heart, and you can't see it with your eyes; you must see it with your heart, and it is only the Spirit of God who gives the eye-salve that you can see it. Here is something that will--not explain it, but it will perhaps help you to get the idea a little better. In Testimony No.31, page 44, I read these words: 'Are you in Christ? Not if you do not acknowledge yourselves erring, helpless, condemned sinners."

You are not in Christ unless you acknowledge yourself to be that. Now is that so? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Are you willing to stick to that now whether you understand how it is so or not? (Congregation: 'Yes.')

That is what some of the brethren say they can't see. They say, 'I can't see how, if I am in Christ, I am to acknowledge myself a helpless, undone sinner; I thought if I was in Christ, then I could thank the Lord I was good.' Why no. He is. When you are in Christ, He is perfect, He is righteous, He is holy and never errs, and His holiness is imputed to you--is given to you. His faithfulness, His perfection is mine, but I am not that." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.Bulletin, p.178.
_______________________________________
THERE IS NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY ARE ERRING, HELPLESS, CONDEMNED SINNERS! What a beautiful Scriptural paradox!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"No man can receive the promise of the Spirit who has not the blessing of Abraham--the righteousness of God, which is by faith.' Then, the man who knows that he believes God can ask with perfect confidence for the Holy Spirit. Not the man who thinks that he believes God; a part of the time he does, a part of the time he does not; a part of the time he thinks de does, a part of the time he does not know whether he does or not. That is not believing God at all, but the Lord wants you and me to know that we believe God. He wants us to know that, and to have that thing as firmly settled and fixed as that we live. Then, I say that the man who knows that he believes God, can ask with perfect confidence for the Spirit of God, and receive it by faith, for 'if ye ask, ye shall receive.' He said so. But we must ask something according to His will. But it is not according to His will to give the Holy Spirit to anybody who has not the blessing of Abraham; and just as with the individual, so with the church: When the people of God reach that place where they KNOW that they believe God, they can ask with perfect confidence for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and wait in perfect confidence and faith that they shall receive it, and they will. That is a fact.

Now let us study a little further to-night, how we may know the blessing of Abraham is our own, and how we may know that with perfect confidence we may ask the Lord to give us His Holy Spirit, and then just simply wait His own good time, and we receive it according to His own wish--we have no anxiety about whether we are going to receive it or not. We want to learn how all that anxiety as to whether we can receive the Holy Spirit or not--learn how that can be taken away from us, and then we can present our petitions to the Lord in faith, expecting nothing else, and simply waiting for Him to give it in His own good time, while we still ask and still seek Him that it may be so.

I tell you, brethren, when we get into that place, it will not be difficult for us to be 'with one accord in one place.' Now, at this meeting, when we reach that condition--that place where we know that we believe God, and know that we may ask with perfect confidence for the Holy Spirit, it will be an easy thing for every one of us--and it will be so, too--to be with one accord in one place, every time there is a meeting. The fact of the matter is, each one will be afraid to be away; because, if he should be away from any of these meetings, and the promise of the Holy Spirit be fulfilled, he would miss it. Every one will be here waiting and watching for the Lord to do what He says, just when He gets ready. Don't you see how that will bring all with one accord into one place? It will do it.

Of course, if the work of the Lord should call us away from some meeting in the order of our work and the order of the Lord, and the Holy Spirit should be poured out while we were away, we would get it anyhow, wherever we were. But it will not be so with those who are away from the meeting from their own inclinations. I am afraid to be away from any of these morning meetings. For I can't tell at what meeting the Spirit may be poured out upon us, I cannot risk being absent.

Now let us take up the Scriptures and read just how the Lord has led us, and will lead every one right through to that place to-night, if you will go. If you will start where I begin to read, the Lord will lead you and me right straight through." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.Bulletin, p.399,400.
_____________________________________
THE MAN WHO KNOWS THAT HE BELIEVES GOD CAN ASK WITH PERFECT CONFIDENCE FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

Would you say that righteousness by faith is righteousness by faith? When we accept Jesus as our personal Saviour He empowers us to crucify the old man character habits of sin and to receive the sinless seed of the new man, which enables us to recognize and resist sin, self, and Satan unto the honor and glory of God and to reproduce the lovely character of Christ Jesus our Lord.

That is what happens to us individually. But what God is waiting for is for it to happen to us corporately, right? See COL 69. And I got the impression that you believe, like Robert Weiland (who I used to work for when a student at Weimar), that God cannot or will not bless the SDA Church with the latter rain until she corporately repents for rejecting the message of Jones and Wagoner back in 1888 and since then.

And I'm not so sure God is punishing us today for whatever wrongs the Church may have been guilty of back then. The little yellow book - SDA Believe - I think represents righteousness by faith very well. And that thing back in the 50's was bad, but not near as bad as some make it out to be.

Mike

Before 1888 what was the call to the SDA Denomination & their responce? What conditions caused this and resulted from this ? Jones & Waggoner gave a sixteen point reply from Scripture ate the end of their contributions as speakers. Does anyone have that reference with the Bible passages. My copy was destroyed in the Cambridge Ohio flood a few years ago.

During and after 1888 what was the call to the SDA Denomination & their responce? What conditions caused this and resulted from this ?

During & after the 1950's what was the call to the SDA Denomination & their responce? What conditions caused this and resulted from this ?

What happened in (1888 & 1950's) & the issues involved and their results.

Was our responce to 1888 & 1950's not so bad, or the disaster that created the long delay in the Second Coming ?

Accurate historical evidence & inspiration focusing right to the point to answer that specifically will be needed.

------------------
Edward F Sutton

[This message has been edited by Edward F Sutton (edited March 02, 2001).]

Okay Edward, great questions. I believe AB shared quotes to the effect that because the leading brethren rejected the message of Jones and Wagoner that a long delay resulted. However, I don't know if we can attribute the fact that we still here today to what the church officials did back in 1888 or even the 1950's.

We must make doubly sure we are not guilty of saying - "My Lord delayeth his coming" - by trying to explain that Jesus has not returned yet because the leadership has not corporately repented for our pioneers rejecting the message of Jones and Waggoner.

There are other reasons mentioned in the SOP as to why Jesus hasn't returned yet. See 1 SM 68 and GC 458 and CS 52. But if we insist that no matter what Jesus can't come until the church officially repents for rejecting J&W - as if that were still true today - then we are making the return of Christ dependent upon church leadership. Are you sure you want to give that kind of power to the church leaders?

Yes, the latter rain was stopped or delayed by the rejection of the message of J&W. But is that still true today? That is, God can't send the latter rain now because of what happened back in 1888? According to the book LDE in the chapter "The Latter Rain" she says the latter rain will come during the mark of the beast crisis to ripen the harvest and to empower the 144,000 to endure the great time of trouble after probation closes.

From what I've read on the J&W situation and the reasons Ellen gives for the delay I get the distinct impression that when personal piety results in enough church members seeking and saving the lost the world will take notice and start enforcing the MOB which will then lead into God pouring out the LR in due season which swells to a loud cry just before probation closes. See quotes referenced above.

Therefore, if I'm reading things correctly, God is waiting for us to get busy saving souls for the kingdom before He sends the LR, and not that He's waiting for the clergy leadership to officially repent of rejecting the messages of J&W. Thus, I see the power to hasten or delay the coming of Christ having more to do with our personal and collective witness than anything else.

And yes, I realize we must also be experiencing righteousness by faith too, which requires the correct understanding of the message.

Did I miss the boat?

Mike

Ed, thanks for asking those questions. Its good to know that there are others out there who have done their homework. You and I dont know each other from Adam and amazingly we seem to be speaking the same language. Its very refreshing to say the very least of it.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 03, 2001).]

As far as the latter rain is concerned, I believe that anyone who takes the time to prayerfully read every single post in this thread, should be able to appreciate "the workings of the Spirit of God in clear and unmistakable lines" which, if accepted by the will and accepted into the heart, will bring to him personally the blessing of Abraham so that he can ask for the promise of the Spirit in perfect confidence. Its up to us individually what we will do with this message. It is the only message that can bring to us the outpouring of the Spirit in large measure. It has been kept intact for us in the 1893 General Conference Bulletin. Thank God!

Mike, I realize that we do not see eye to eye as to the identity of "the glorious land" in Daniel 11:41. I believe it refers to our beloved SDA church, which everyone will agree is "Modern Israel." If I am understanding you correctly, you believe it refers to Jerusalem in the Middle East. You have demonstrated that the only way one can arrive at this conclusion is by adopting the dual method of interpretation, the geographical and spiritual. But I believe that in order to be consistent, it can only be the one and that is the spiritual or gospel one.

And if we consider the fact that the message which was to lighten the earth with its glory (1888 message) was resisted and kept away from the world in a large degree (1 SM 234,235) and the fact that we have compromised the pillars of our faith between 1955 and 1957 and that as a result we immediately pusblished a book which contained the declaration that thenceforth we were "one with the different christian denominational groups in the fundamentals of the faith delivered to the saints," (Questions on Doctrine, p.32) then it should not be too difficult to see that Daniel 11:30 and 41 point to Modern Israel.

Is it not significant that since the compromises in the 1950s we have had congenial fellowship with the Sunday-keeping churches? And is it not significant that ever since then the WCC has recognized us and that we are now numbered among the churches as a Christian denomination as opposed to an anti-christian cult? This is how all Christendom viewed us until 1958 because, of course, of our Sanctuary teaching and what our position had been on the human nature of Christ. These two pillars of our faith had to be repudiated in order to win their approval and anyone who was holding on to these two pillars of our faith was said to belong to the "lunatic fringe" or was a "wild-eyed irresponsible" in the church.

And this is of little consequence?!! As we study the history of the Advent Movement, it becomes very clear that we are living in the time of "added probation" and that the Lord will give a last opportunity to His professed people to fulfill their God given task and if they refuse this last offer of pardon for betraying sacred trusts, and the offer of salvation only through the merits of the blood of Christ (T.M.97), like the Jews, we too will be rejected and the bearers of the message will be forced to go out and give the message to the rest of the world as the apostles and their converts did after 34 AD. See C.O.L.294,304.

I hope this helps answer your questions somewhat!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 03, 2001).]

"Let us not question how that can be. When the Lord speaks, that is the end of the whole story, no difference what He says; that is the end of it; and we say, 'Lord, that's so.' Now, let us go together tonight, and we will arrive at that place where every one of us can KNOW that we have the blessing of Abraham; and then we can ask God for His Spirit in perfect confidence, and wait to receive it, as He gives it in His own good time.

Let us see what the Lord has done, and how He works, and how He brings us up to that place. Let us begin where He began. We will read first from Eph.1:3-6. That takes us to the point where God began concerning us, and that will be as far back as we need to go. The third verse:--

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.' What is it He 'hath' done? (Congregation: 'Blessed us.') Is it so? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Has done it? (Congregation: 'Yes.') He has blessed us with how many blessings? (Congregation: 'All spiritual blessings.') All the blessings He has? He has given us all? (Congregation: 'Yes.') How? (Congregation: 'In Christ.') In Christ. Then in giving Christ, what did God give? (Congregation: 'All spiritual blessings.') All the spiritual blessings that He had.

Well then, when you and I believe in Jesus Christ, are we not blessed? Have not we all the blessings that the Lord has? Then what is going to bother us? A person that is blessed like that, is he going to be anything else than happy? (Congregation: 'No.') Can he have the blues? (Congregation: 'No.') Can he get into the sulks because things don't go just right? (Congregation: 'No.') They are going just right any way. However things go they can't take his blessings away. 'All things work together for good to them that love God.'

But the fourth verse is the one particularly that I want to read:--'According as he hath chosen us.' Will choose us? (Congregation: 'Hath chosen us.') Has He? (Congregation: 'Yes.') When did He do it? (Congregation: 'Before the foundation of the world.') Thank the Lord! 'Before the foundation of the world" He chose you and me. (Congregation: 'Praise the Lord.') Now, will you say 'Amen' to that every time? (Congregation: 'Amen!') I do not mean just now. Will you say it all the time? (Congregation: Yes.')

How long is that Scripture going to remain there? (Congregation: 'Forever.') Then how long is it going to be true that 'He hath chosen you before the foundation of the world?' (Congregation: 'Always.') Then how long are you going to be bothered to know whether you are the Lord's or not? Hasn't He chosen you? Hasn't He chosen you? (Congregation: 'Yes.') What did He do it for? Because He wanted us? Did He? (Congregation: 'Yes.') He chose me because He wanted me, and He shall have me. I am not going to rob Him and disappoint His choice. He has chosen us, hasn't He? (Congregation: 'Yes.') 'Before the foundation of the world.' Now the rest of the verse: 'That we should be holy and without blame before Him in love.' His blessed purpose is, He wants us to 'be holy and without blame before Him in love.' Then we can let Him have His own way, because it is our everlasting salvation to let Him do it." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.Bulletin, p.400, 401.
________________________________________
ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THE WORD OF GOD.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"Next verse: 'Having predestinated'--appointed the destiny that He wants us to reach, long before hand. The destiny that God fixes for man is worth having. 'Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.' Why did He do it then?--Not because we were so good, but because He is so good; not because we were so well pleasing to Him, but because of the good pleasure, of His own will. It was just Himself to do it. That's why He did it.

Verse 6. 'To the praise of the glory of His grace wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved.' Now what do you say to that? (Congregation: 'Amen.') When did He do that? (Congregation: 'Before the foundation of the world.') Precisely; 'Before the foundation of the world.' That answers all this idea about whether we can do anything in order to be justified or not. He did it all before we had any chance to do anything--long before we were born--long before the world was made. Don't you see that the Lord is the One that does things, in order that we may be saved and that we may have Him?

Now see what He has done: 1. 'He hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings' in Christ. 2. 'He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world.' 3. 'He hath predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ.' 4. And 'He hath made us accepted in the Beloved.' Well, I am glad of it. I know that that is so. (Congregation: 'Amen.') Don't you? (Congreation: 'Yes.') For He says so. He says so. Here then are four things that we can be everlastingly sure of.

A word further about those blessings the Lord hath given us. We have all the blessings that God has, when we believe Jesus Christ. Then they are our own. We don't need to be so very particular about praying for blessings. Would we not do better, think ye, to spend our time in thanking Him for the blessings that we have, than in asking Him for blessings? How does that look? Which do you think looks better, to thank the Lord for the blessings He has already given us, or to ask Him to give us some, when He hasn't any more to give? Now which is better? (Congregation: 'To thank Him.') He hath given us all the blessings He has in Christ. Christ says, 'I am with you.' Brethren, let us feed on the blessings. We have them, and they are our own. Then we can be sure all the time that we have all spiritual blessings. We can be sure all the time that He has chosen us. He says He has. We can be sure all the time that He has predestinated us unto the adoption of children. We can be sure all of the time that He has made us accepted in the beloved. We can be sure of all these things; for God says so, and it is so. Then isn't that a continual feast itself?

Now He has done all that, and has done it freely. For how many people did He do it? (Congregation: 'All.') Every soul? (Congregation: 'Yes, sir.') Gave all the blessings He has to every soul in this world; He chose every soul in the world; He chose him in Christ before the foundation of the world; predestinated him unto the adoption of children, and made him accepted in the beloved, did He not? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Of course He did.

We will read other verses presently. The thought I am after just now is that no one can have these things, and know they are his, without his own consent. The Lord will not force any of these things upon a man, even though He has given them already, will He? (Congregation: 'No.') This is a co-operation, you see; God pours out everything in one wondrous gift, but if a man will not have it, the Lord will not compel him to have a bit of it. Every man that will take it, it is all his own. There is where the co-operation comes in. The Lord has to have our co-operation in all things." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.Bulletin, p.400,401.
________________________________________
FOUR THINGS WE CAN BE EVERLASTINGLY SURE OF! Thank God!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

"Now let us turn to Titus 2:14, speaking of the Lord it says, 'who gave Himself for us.' That is the past tense, too, is it not? It is done. He did give Himself for how many people? (Congregation: 'All.') How many people on the earth can read that text and say 'That means me?' Every soul on the earth. Wherever we go, then, on the earth and find a man, we can read to him that 'Christ gave Himself for you,' can we not? (Congregation: 'Yes.') He gave Himself for you, then. That is the price that Peter refers to in 1 Peter 1:18-20.

Whether you or I let Him have us, that is not the question just now. What has He done? What did he do? (Congregation: 'Paid the price.') Before the foundation of the world He bought me, did he not? And you? Then whose are we? (Congregation: 'The Lord's.')

Well, then, is there any prospect of your getting into doubt as to whether you are the Lord's? How is a man who wants to be the Lord's, and has confessed his sins--how is it possible for him to get into doubt as to whether he is the Lord's or not? It is only by going back on the word of God altogether and not believing it at all, and saying that the Lord has lied. Is not that the only way he can do it? 'He that believeth not God hath made Him a liar.' Then the only way a man can doubt as to whether he is the Lord's or not is by going back on the word of God and saying that the Lord lies. That is the only way he can do it. Because for a man to doubt is to do that; he may not do that in so many words; but when he gets into doubt as to whether he is the Lord's, that is what he has done. He has allowed unbelief to overthrow him, and Satan to get the advantage and sweep eerything away. That is so.

But still, though the Lord has bought us, He will not take what He has bought without our permission. There is a line which God has set as fixing the freedom of every man, and He Himself will never go over that line a hair's breadth without our permission, never. He respects the freedom and dignity which He has given to intelligent creatures, whether man or angel; He respects it and He Himself will not transgress the limit; He will not go over the limits without the permission of that person. But when the permission is given, then He will come for all that He is; then that opens the flood gates and the Lord flows in. That is so.

Well, then, He has bought you, has He? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Do you want to be the Lord's? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Now, friends, let us make this a real practical, tangible thing. He has bought us, has He not? He has paid the price for us; we are His by His will. Now then, when our will is there, whose are we then? (Congregation: 'The Lord's.') He has shown His will on that subject by paying the price, has He not? And when we make known our will on the subject by saying, 'Lord, that is my choice, too; that is the way my will goes, too; then I want to know how in the universe anything is going to keep us from being His? Then can you KNOW you are the Lord's? (Congregation: 'Yes, sir.') Can you, now? (Congregation: 'Yes, sir.')" A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.Bulletin, p.401,402.
__________________________________________
FAITH IS COUNTED UNTO US FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
THE MAN WHO KNOWS THAT HE BELIEVES GOD HAS THE BLESSING OF ABRAHAM AND THAT MAN MAY ASK IN PERFECT CONFIDENCE FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 06, 2001).]

Thank you for answering my questions. And I'm very sorry your first post got lost in hyper space. It is never fun when that happens. I'm sure all of us can testify to that.

I must admit that although I agree with J&W's basic conclusions - righteousness is by faith - I find reading the transcripts of their lectures more than tedious. I prefer reading the same thoughts in books like Steps to Christ. Also, I find their argumentative style less than ingratiating. I prefer the smooth rolling style of Ellen White.

Also, in spite of what the church did in the 1950's I still believe the official doctrine of the SDA church on righteousness by faith and the sanctuary (and the other pillars) is clearly and accurately documented in our publications. There are individual SDA authors whose ideas contradict the truth, but their ideas do not represent the official church position.

Thank you for clarifing your thoughts on corporate repentance. I'm sorry I missed it before. Yes, when enough of God's people understand and experience righteousness by faith and are also actively seeking and saving the lost then things can begin to happen on a prophetic level.

Yes, I respect your views on Dan 11. And I definitely agree with your thoughts on how apostate Christian forces are infiltrating the hearts and minds of many, many SDA church members. It's sad to think about. But praise God for the straight testimony of the True Witness which will one day, the sooner the better in my opinion, shake and purify the church.

What do you think about the idea that Ellen wrote about saying that the latter rain will follow the shaking? And that the shaking begins sometime after God starts numbering and sealing the 144,000 during the sunday sabbath crisis?

If this chronology is correct - sunday crisis, judgment of the living, numbering and sealing of the saints, shaking, latter rain, loud cry, close of probation - if this line up is right then what are we expecting to happen next?

According to my study of Ellen and the Bible we should be expecting the politicians and pastors to respond to upcoming economy crippling natural disasters by establishing and enforcing sunday legislation. Which is the signal for the balance of things listed above to start unfolding in rapid quick succession.

Thus, I'm not expecting anything to happen with any of the events listed above until after natural disasters threaten the economy of the USA. In the meantime, I will do my best to cooperate with heavenly agencies to experience the truth in my own life while sharing, according to my God-given gifts, the gospel of grace with people I come in contact with.

Mike

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 03, 2001).]

In my own words, circumstances bring a national & world crisis. The SDA position seekers & political climbers vanish & the loyal SDA's do their best to hide. After a while God causes a calm eye in the storm for a while and allows the sheep to come out of hiding. They cry to God because they have no leaders. He pours out His Spirit to reorganize & strengthen them, then as they are reorganized and readied He pours the Latter Rain and they go out and warn the world.

That is my condensation. It did not condemn being a leader, but it did not spare leaders who climbed at the expense of the flock. Who knew their Master's will and performed their own.

What I noticed as signifigent was that as soon as the winds of strife hit, there was no vacation & no rest till the Second Coming. The things that seperated the wheat & tares was their internal responce to the crisis & God's protection or not. Position in leadership was not a factor in being a sheep or goat, it was completely internal rediness that made sheep and the lack that made goats.

I think this was called "A terrible Storm is coming" Vance Farell published it in his track packs.

------------------
Edward F Sutton

Again, and as usual, thank you for those well though out words regarding the chronology of last day events. I agree with you that the loud cry follows the shaking during the sunday crisis.

However, my reading of chapters 9-16 in the little Red Book entitled "Last Day Events" (which I just read again this sabbath) serves to convince me that the natural disasters which move politicians and pastors to legislate and enforce the catholic sabbath is the event that triggers the fulfillment of the remaining events:

1. Economy choaking natural disasters
2. Pastors and politicians unite
3. Sunday laws enacted and enforced
4. Sabbath keepers tried and tested
5. Judgment of the living begins and continues to the close of probation
6. God begins numbering and sealing the 144,000 which continues until the close of probation
7. The saints who have been sealed immediately begin proclaiming the 3AM's messages and the testimony of the True Witness
8. The preaching of the sealed saints causes a shaking of adventism which contiunes until the church is purified
9. The shaken and sifted adventists will leave the church some will join the ranks of the opposition and become our most bitter enemies
10. When the church is purified the influence of the latter rain empowers the growing number of sealed saints to declare the three warning messages more perfectly
11. The latter rain swells to a loud cry as more and more sealed saints add their voices to the warning messages
12. A lull in persecution allows the sealed saints to proclaim the warning messages with relative freedom great numbers will embrace the truth most of them to suffer martyrdom some to be number and sealed
13. The influence of spiritualism gains momentum until finally Satan personates the second coming of Christ
14. Eventually everyone everywhere will decide for or against the seal of God and then probation will close

I believe this is the chronology that is spelled out in the Ellen White quotations compiled in the little publication called "Last Day Events."

My studies of the latter rain have led to me to believe that it is more a consequence than a cause. That's not to say that it isn't also a cause. But I believe it will be the direct result of what happens after the experience of the investigative jugdment of the living. And that is - each person as they are found worthy of eternal life will have their past history of sins blotted out and they will be unable to recall or remember them. This dynamic result will give them a new experience which will add power to their testimony. This is what we call the latter rain. It's very similar to the cause and effect experience that the early church enjoyed under the early rain.

What do you think?

Mike

I hope this is a tantilizing offer, and will begin to add the references to the table.

Direct references

"Former Rain" 4 - texts (Bible)
Jeremiah 5:24 Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.

Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

"Former Rain" - hits on EGW search engine - 66 hits

"Latter Rain" - 9 texts (Bible)
Deuteronomy 11:14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.

Job 29:23 And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.

Proverbs 16:15 In the light of the king’s countenance is life; and his favour is as a cloud of the latter rain.

Jeremiah 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore’s forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

Jeremiah 5:24 Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.

Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

Zechariah 10:1 Ask ye of the LORD rain in the time of the latter rain; so the LORD shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

"Latter Rain" - 279 hits on EGW search engine.

Please suggest indirect references (like "times of refreshing" ect.

------------------
Edward F Sutton

It was her constant burden to tell our people to hear the voice of God in the Scriptures. "Let the word of God speak to the people. Let them hear the voice of Him whose word can renew the soul unto eternal life." C.O.L.40.

How important it is to receive the Scriptures as the Word of God to us, not merely written but spoken! To believe it because it is the truth, because God says it and then our faith is reckoned unto us for righteousness! This is how we "attain to righteousness." Rom.9:30;4:13. Thank the Lord! Praise the Lord! The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC!

"Abraham believed God and it was counted unto Him for righteousness... But it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed unto him, but for us also, to whom it will be imputed if we believe Him who raised Jesus from the dead." Rom.4:3,23,24.

Whatever we read in the Scriptures, we are to receive it as the voice of God to us and say, "Lord, That is so," and our believing God is counted unto us for righteousness, for "From the heart man believeth unto righteousness." Rom.10:10. Whatever God says we believe it because it is the truth, because He cannot lie, and our faith is reckoned unto us for righteousness! In other words, the Lord declares His righteousness unto all and upon all them that believe. Rom.3:21,22. Believe what? His word. "This is the word of faith which we preach." Rom.10:8,17. Not only is our faith counted unto us for righteousness, but the word effectually works in us who believe! 1 Thess. 2: 13.

The Lord says that "We are justified by His blood." What do we say? "Amen, that is so," and our faith is counted unto us for righteousness! This is what it means to be "justified by faith." Rom.5:1. Then "We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Rom.5:1. He says that "We are reconciled unto God through the blood of His cross." (Col.1:20) What do we say? "Amen Lord, that is so." He also says that "We are sanctified by His own blood." (Heb.13:12) What do we say? "Amen, Lord that is so." And our faith in counted unto us for righteousness! Thank the Lord! That is how a man is made and remains righteous! Praise the Lord!

The Lord says, "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." What do we say? "Amen, that is so." Our affections are fixed upon the word, the mind is in subjection to the word and our faith is counted unto us for righteousness. It is the same with every line of the Scriptures. There is salvation in every line of the Scriptrues as long as we receive the word in faith. The reception of the Word is the reception of Christ Himself. John 6:63; 2 Cor.3:17; Rev.19:13. Not only does God count our faith for righteousness, but the Lord has promised to give us understanding in all things if we receive His word just as He speaks it. 2 Tim.2:7.

The Scriptures can be a continual feast. This is the teaching of righteousness according to righgteousness, according to God's own idea of it. Feed upon the word, receive it as the voice of God to your soul and believe it implicitly with the simple faith of a little child and the Lord declares His righteousness unto you and upon you who believes. "Your are right" He says, and you are right, too. The Lord says so! Amen. Rom.3:21,22.

Is the righteousness which is of God by faith found in the book of Genesis? Absolutely. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Gen.1:1. As we accept this declaration as the voice of God speaking to us directly and believe it because it is the truth, because God says it, our faith is counted unto us for righteousness! Amen, thank the Lord. The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC but we dont understand it! There is righteousness and salvation in every line of the Scriptures. "The end of your faith is the salvation of your souls." 1 Peter 1:9. "Faith comes by hearing the word of God." Rom.10:17. "After you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise." Eph.1:13. Believing unto righteousness! Rom.10:10. "Continue in the faith." Col.1:23.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 12, 2001).]

When Jesus tells you and me we are blind, the thing for us to do is to say: 'Lord, we are blind.' (And your believing Him is counted unto you for righteousness) He told those folks they were blind, and they were blind; but they said it was not so. It was so. If they had confessed their blindness they would have seen God in that man's healing from his blindness.
Well, then, brethren, the thing for us to do is to come square up to the Laodicean message, and say that every word He says is so. When He says you and I are wretched, tell him, 'It is so, I am wretched; miserable, it is so, I am miserable; poor, it is so; I am poor, a perfect beggar, I shall never be anything else in the world; blind, I am blind, and shall never be anything else; naked, that is so; and I do not know it.' And then I will say to Him every day and every hour, 'Lord that is all so; but, oh, instead of my wretchedness, give me Thine own satisfaction; instead of my misery, give me Thine own comfort; instead of my poverty, supply all Thine own riches; instead of my blindness, be Thou my sight; instead of my nakedness, oh do Thou clothe me with Thine own righteousness; and what I know not, Lord, teach Thou me.' (Congregation: 'Amen.')

Brethren, when we come with one heart and one mind to that place, we shall have no difficulty at all in repenting. It will not be difficult to repent, and there will be no lack of repentance. The difficulty about our not being able to repent is that we have not confessed what the Lord has told us is the truth. "With the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Rom.10:10.

When I know that I am wretched then I know that I need something that will satisfy me, and I know that nothing but the Lord can give that, and I depend upon nothing but Him to give it; and if I have not Him, why it is only wretchedness. Any moment that I have not Him it is only wretchedness; and any moment that I have not His comfort it is only misery; any moment that I have not absolute dependence upon His unsearchable riches--the unsearchable riches of Christ--I am utterly poor, a complete beggar; and every moment that I do not see and confess that I am blind, and have Him as my sight, I am in sin; He says so. John 9:39-41.

Now you say you see; therefore your sin remaineth. And every moment that I do not see my nakedness and depend only and absolutely upon Him and His righteousness to clothe me, why so certainly I am ruined, utterly ruined, and every moment that I begin to say, 'Now I know so much,' no, I do not know that at all. 1 Cor.8:2. Well, then, the thing that I am to do, is to say, 'Lord, I do not know it; I depend upon You to teach me everything, even to teach me that I am wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked, and that I need all these things. And when I tell Him all that, He will give all I need. He will do it. THAT IS OUR SITUATION.

For it is written, "Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness... Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him, but for us also, to whom it will be imputed, if we believe on Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead." Rom.4:3,23,24. For, "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness." Rom.10:10.
A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C. Bulletin, p.166,167.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 11, 2001).]

------------------
For I know that my redeemer liveth,
and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth.
_________________________

Linda

P/S Therefore it is written that "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth (the word) in unrighteousness (in unbelief)" for "in the Gospel (the Word) is revealed the righteousness of God from faith to faith." Rom.1:17. Faith in the word is counted for righteousness! Therefore we are justified simply by believing God, by believing just what He says and as He says it, whatever He says, for "he who does not believe God has made Him a liar," and that is unrighteousness! 1 John 5:10.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 13, 2001).]

Dont you see this is the whole story, that there is salvation in every line of the Scriptures. For God says it, don't He? Well, when God says it, and we say it, then we are righteous, that is the end of it. God said that to Abraham; Abraham said, "Amen, that is so, I take that." So this shows that there is salvation in every line of the Scriptures, in every thing God Says. The story is simple enough, the mischief of it is, though, that we allow so much of Satan's devices to get in to mystify it. That is the mischief of it. The Lord does not want that, He wants it to be just as simple as He has told it; and He has told it so simply that a little child can understand it and receive it. And you who do not receive it as a little child, cannot receive it. So I say again, that it is no difference what God says or when He says it; whatever He says, we, like Abraham, say "Amen, Lord I believe that; that is so." Then He says "You are right." And you are right too. Rom.4:3,23,24. Amen, thank the Lord, praise the Lord. A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C.B. p.378,379.

This is the teaching of righteousness according to righteousness, according to God's own idea of His righteousness, as it was presented at the General Conference in session in 1893. This is the latter rain, the loud cry of the third angel which is to lighten the earth with its glory! The teaching of righteousness according to righteousness. Rom.4:3,23,24. Amen!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 13, 2001).]

Again, thank you for the posts on righteousness by faith. Personally I agree with J&W's conclusions. But their style does not touch my heart. It's way too argumentative for my taste. I wonder if that's one of the reasons why Ellen White told them to watch their words? I know we're not supposed to judge the message by the messenger, but I can almost sympathize with the people back then who struggled with what J&W were presenting.

But like I said, I agree with their basic conclusions. And it is those truths that I find winsome and endearing. It's just that I prefer to learn them in a winsome and endearing way too. And I thank God for books like Steps to Christ.

Do you really believe the latter rain will begin to fall just because we believe and teach this message? What about all the other things that must happen too? I believe there is the potential for disappointment if go around thinking all we have to do is preach this message and then Jesus will return.

What is more important - to occupy or to relocate? Is being a Christian all about going to heaven? Or does it also include experiencing peace of mind here and now? Please don't think I'm saying going to heaven isn't important. Because it is. It's our ultimate hope. But there is danger in getting all caught up with going to heaven if we forget to enjoy being a Christian now. Do you know what I mean?

We may not go to heaven before we die of old age. Am I a heretic for saying that? I hope not. Can I be at peace now even if, like Peter, I knew I was going to die before going to heaven? I certainly hope so. Didn't Jesus say that the kingdom is within us now?

I believe getting all worked up by thinking all we have to do is preach the long lost messsage of J&W then Jesus will send the latter rain and soon there after we'll be out of here. That doesn't seem balanced to me. And I think it's the perfect set up for frustration and failure.

I believe the balance is best experienced by believing that Jesus could possibly return in our lifetime, especially as we cooperate with the conditions - believe and preach the truth as it is in Jesus. In the mean time, we can enjoy the peace and bliss of heaven now as we occupy earth unto the honor and glory of God seeking to save the lost according to our God-given gifts and talents.

I didn't mean to imply that you are guilty of the things I've written here. But I do know people who cannot be at peace now because they want to be in heaven so bad. And they get all worked up about this and that idea so that life is miserable for them and the people they come in contact with. I hope that doesn't happen to any of us.

Mike

Did you take the time to read all of this, Mike? It sounds like you are saying that Jone's speech is confusing when the Lord said through Sister White that these lectures were "the workings of the Spirit in clear and unmistakable lines." Clear and unmistakable lines! In fact, so clear that they were then under obligation to believe, the Spirit told them!!!

What is the message? "Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Rom.4:3. In other words God declared him righteous simply because he believed what He told him. Abraham was still a Gentile too! Rom.4:9-11; Gen.15:4-6. Therefore, we, like Abraham, believe what God says and we get the same results. Rom.4:23,24. "Faith is reckoned unto us for righteousness."

Yes it is the message that will prepare a people for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in latter rain power because God said so! Sister White warned that when the Lord shall let His light shine again the Holy Spirit will be falling all around us and we will not know it! And many will be quick to ridicule the message and call it excitement and fanaticism again. 1 SM 143.

"The story is simple enough, the mischief of it is, though, that we allow so much of Satan's devices to get in to mystify it. That is the mischief of it. But the Lord does not want that, He wants it to be just as simple as He has told it; and He has told it so simply that a child can understand it and receive it. And you who do not receive it as a little child, cannot receive it. So I say again, that it is no difference what God says or when He says it; whatever He says, we, like Abraham, say, "Amen, Lord, I believe that; that is so." Then He says "You are right." And you are right, too." A.T Jones, 1893 G.C.B. p.379.

"With the heart man believeth unto righteousness." Rom.10:10.

About these lectures, she also said this: "God has wrought in a remarkable manner; and let no one venture to say this is not the Spirit of God. It is just that which we are authorized to believe and pray for." 1 SM 130.

You say you prefer to get it from somewhere else when God says that this message of righteousness was made so simple to understand that it was just as simple as receiving the alphabet. After hearing these two brethren, Sister White said: "The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC. But we dont understand it." Manuscript 1, May 11, 1889.

You say there is danger in overemphasizing some truth at the expense of other truths just as important. Have you ever considered this statement made in 1892, at the time when she said that the latter rain had already begun in the message of the righteousness of Christ? "One interest will prevail, one subject will swallow up every other, Christ and His righteousness." RH, Dec.23, 1892. This statement speaks for itself! In other words we cannot separate the Sabbath from the righteousness of faith. God says "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." (Deut.5:14) Like Abraham, we believe that and our believing God is counted unto us for righteousness. It is the same with every doctrine we hold as truth. The Lord says "The dead know not anything." Ecc.9:5,6. We, like Abraham, believe, and it is counted unto us for righteousness. In other words, the righteusness of God is manifested or revealed upon all and unto all them that believe the word. Eph.1:13; 1 Thess.2:13; Rom.9:30-32; Heb.4:3.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 13, 2001).]

God bless,
Wendy

[This message has been edited by WendyForsyth (edited March 13, 2001).]

I am sharing these lectures Wendy so that anyone who believes and receives this message of the righteousness which is of God by simply believing what God says, no matter what He says or where He says it in the Bible, will take it to his own heart and to his brothers and sisters in the church. "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness." Rom.10:10. The Lord will do the rest. He will accomplish everything. With a message like this, we will not depend upon what we can do or what we will do, for the Holy Spirit, as you said, will gather together those who have a "common faith." I dont expect everyone to accept this message. Far from it. If they did not listen in 1888 when Ellen White was there to tell them that it was the workings of the Spirit of God, and still called that "excitement" and "a species of fanaticism," what are we to expect today when there is no living prophet among us?

The Lord will take the reigns into His own hands. He will make bare His holy arm and He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness! Isa.52:10; Rom.9:28.

Wendy, I am sure you believe that the only way to be of "one accord" is to have a "common faith" which is the faith of Abraham which is the faith of Jesus. Whenever the word of God is read or heard, there is instanteneous response. When God has a people who finally believe that God declares His righteousness unto all and upon all them that believe what He says, no matter what He says, then He can put His seal on them and finish His work through them. "There is salvation in every line of the Scriptures." The Word of God is a continual feast! God bless!

Wendy
-------------
Maranatha!!!

"Well, suppose you get up in the morning with a headache, and your digestion has not worked very well during the night, and you feel rather bad all over, and don't feel just right; how do you know you are the Lord's? (Congregation: 'Because He says so.') But suppose you get up in the morning and feel bright and hilarious, and feel pretty good generally; how do you know you are the Lord's? (Congregation: 'Because He says so.') Sometimes people say when we ask them, 'Have your sins been forgiven?' 'Yes, I was convinced that they were for awhile.' 'What convinced you?' 'I felt as though they were forgiven.' They did not know anything about it. They did not, in that, have a particle of evidence that their sins were forgiven. Why, brethren, the only evidence that we can have that these things are so is that GOD SAYS SO. That is the evidence. Dont't look to feelings; feelings are as variable as the wind; you know that is so. Never pay a particle of attention to them; it is none of your business how you feel. When God says so, it is so, whether I feel so or not.

I will give that illustration again; I have given it before, but it emphasizes this point, that feeling has nothing to do with facts: Twice two is four, is it not? You know that is so, but there are some people in the world who do not know that twice two is four. But suppose you should tell some one, and he should believe it, how do you think he would feel? Do you suppose he would feel as though he had been picked up and whirled in a sort of half somersault and set down in a new place? No. What in the world has feeling got to do with that? Then what does he care how he feels?

Not that is not saying that there will be no experience as the fruit of this; but it is saying that if you look for feelings as an evidence, you will never find the evidence; but if you look to the word of God for the evidence, then you will get the evidence which God gives in His word; that is, His own divine power in that word effectually working in the man who believes. 1 Thess. 2:13.

Well, then the Lord has bought us, has He not? Now as far as you and I are concerned, we need not have any more doubt as to whether or not we are the Lord's, is that so? (Congregation: 'Yes.') But there are some people in the world who are not, really, in real experience and as a matter of fact so far as the consummation of the bargain is concerned; they have not submitted themselves to the Lord and are not practically His. He has made them by His purchase; now how can they know that they are His practically indeed? By His word; by choosing for themselves to have it just that way; by choice.

When the man chooses to put his will on the side where God's will is, then the thing is accomplished. Then it is at a man's choice that he practically, in his own experience, becomes the Lord's indeed. Then is it not by the man's own permission in choosing the Lord's way that the man becomes the Lord's in practical experience?

Then having done that, don't you see that so long as your choice is there, so long as your wish is there to be the Lord's--don't you see that you are the Lord's indeed? Do you see that? Whenever we deliver ourselves up to Him, that is so. But some of you delivered yourself up long ago, but then, since that, you have been discouraged and wondering whether you were the Lord's or not.

We want people to-night to get that doubt and question forever out of the way, so that whatever comes up, you will not be bothering about whether you are the Lord's. Just as certainly as your choice is there to be His, you are His; for He bought you long ago. That is the thing I am after. Is that what you are after? You are to take it if you ever get it. (Congregation: 'Amen.') Then we can know that we are the Lord's." A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C. Bulletin, p.401,402.
_________________________________________
WE CAN KNOW THAT WE ARE THE LORD'S.

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited March 17, 2001).]

"But now we sometimes hear people talk as though that was going to sanction sin. No. It will not do that. No. It will save you from sinning. When a man gets into that place, and his choice is there to be the Lord's, then God works in him both to will and to do His own good pleasure; and he is a Christian. God will make him a Christian. That is the divine power there is in this thing. There is no sanction of sin about it. In fact, it is the only way to keep from sanctioning sin. Any other profession does sanction sin. Any other profession does do just what the Lord complains of--that men have made Him to serve with their sins. What does the Lord say? 'You have made Me to serve with your sins.' Isa.43:54. Let us stop it. Let our will and our choice be the Lord's every moment of our conscious days; and then it is a fact.

Let us turn and read that verse that says so. 1 Cor.6:19, and the last words of the verse: 'Ye are not your own.' That is so, is it not? I don't care who the man is, is he his own? (Congregation: 'No, sir.') The Lord has bought him, and if he does not let the Lord have him, he is robbing the Lord of that which is the Lord's own. That is the mischief of it. Though he be not consciously and practically the Lord's; yet the Lord has bought every one, and any man who refuses to let the Lord have him, he is robbing the Lord of that which He bought, and for which He paid the price, and he is counting the price which bought him as worth less then himself. Is not that the same satanic spirit that sought to put itself above God in Heaven? The Lord gave Himself for us; then when I will not let him have me, in that very thing, I count myself worth more than the price that was paid--that is, worth more than the Lord--and that is the same self that puts itself above God all the time. Oh let this mind be in us that was in Christ, who emptied Himself, that God and man might again be united in one.

'Ye are not your own,' are you? (Congregation: 'No.') Are you not glad of it? Are you not glad you are not your own? He says so, and it is so, is it not? Why is it? 'For ye are bought with a price.' He bought us, therefore we are not our own; and before all people in the world who are not their own, is the man who has yielded himself to the Lord who has bought him. 'Therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.' Whose are they? (Congregation: 'God's') But I need not dwell longer on these verses, 'He gave Himself for us.' He bought us. How much of us? (Congregation: 'All of us.') When was it that He did it? (Congregation: 'Before the foundation of the world.') What kind of folks were we before the foundation of the world? What kind of folks were we when God bought us? We were just ourselves; just as we were in this world. And He bought us, sinners, just as we are? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Now did He? Honestly, now? We are coming to another thought here. Now did He pay the price and buy us just as we were? Sinners? (Congregation: 'Yes.') Evil beings and willing to go into evil ways? Willing to do the evil thing? Making no profession of religion, and not particularly wanting to? Did He buy us then? (Congregation: 'Yes.') What did he buy just then? He bought us, and all that there was of us. And as He bought what there was of us, He bought our sins. Isaiah describes it--wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores; no soundness at all. Is that so? (Congregation: 'Yes.')" A.T. Jones, 1893 G.C. Bulletin, p.402,403.
____________________________________________
HE HAS MADE KNOWN HIS WILL; HE BOUGHT US; WE ARE HIS; WE CAN CHOOSE TO PUT OUR WILL ON THE SIDE OF HIS WILL AND BE HIS AND BE DONE WITH IT AND HE WILL KEEP US FROM SIN.

At first there were no worlds at all. More than this, there was none of the materials of which the worlds are made. There was nothing. Then God spoke, and all the worlds were in their places. From whence came the worlds, then? Before He spoke, there were none; after He spoke, there they were. Whence, then, did they come? What produced them? What produced the material of which they are composed? What caused them to exist? It was the Word which was spoken that did it all. And this Word did it all, because it was the Word of God. There was in that Word the divinity of life and Spirit, the creative power, to do all that the Word expressed. Such is the Word of God.

"And this is the Word which by the gospel in preached unto you." 1 Peter 1:25. The Word of God in the Bible is the same,--the same in life, in Spirit, in creative power,--precisely the same, as that Word that made the heavens and all the host of them. It was Jesus Christ who spoke the Word at creation: it is He who speaks the Word in the Bible. At creation the Word which He spoke made the worlds; in the Bible the Word which He speaks saves and sancifies the soul. Rom.4:25;5:1; John 17:17. In the Bible the Word which He speaks creates in Christ Jesus the man who receives that Word. 1 Peter 1:23. In both places, at creation and in the Bible, it is the Word that does it.

Receive it, not as the Word of men, but as it is in truth the Word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe that the word has in itself power to accomplish what it says. Then "It shall accomplish (in you) that which I please," saith the Lord, and "It shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." Isa.55:11.

Don't you see that when we receive the Word of God as self-fulfilling, that it won't take very long before the Lord can finish the work and cut it short in righteousness? Rom.9:28.

The Lord says: "Abide in Me and I in you." John 15:4; "Abide in My love." John 15: "Go and bear much fruit." John 15:16. It is clear that we can obey these only by hearing them and depending upon them to accomplish what is said in them! And that is faith, and even great faith, Jesus said! Matt.8:10.

Those who hear the commands and promises of God and depend upon "the Word only" for its accomplishment, unto them and upon them is the righteousness (right doing) of God revealed! Praise His Word!

"Thy shall love your God with all your heart, supremely, and your neighbor, impartially." And the Word "effectually works in them that believe;" for the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts as we depend upon "the Word only" for the accomplishment of what that Word says. How gentle His commands! They are Spirit and they are life, even everlasting life! John 12:50; 6:63.

When depended upon for the accomplishment of what is said in them, the words and commands of God impart power and they beget life, even the life of the Infintie One by which the command may be fulfilled and the promise realized! Then they become exceeding and most precious promises by which we become partakers of the divine nature! 2 Peter 1:4.

It is not only that the worlds were created by the word of God; but they are also sustained by the same word. God holds up "all things" by His powerful word. And the Christian is among this "all things" no less than any or all the worlds. Heb.1:3.

This is to be believed and depended upon by every one who professes the name of Christ. You and I can no more hold ourselves up in the right way than can the sun or the earth. And as certainly as the worlds are dependent upon His word, so certainly is the Christian to depend upon His word. And when this is so, the Christian is kept in the way of the Lord as certainly and as easily as is any planet in the universe. It is written that He "is able to keep you from falling." And He says, "I will uphold thee with the right hand of My righteousness." "Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."

O struggling Christian, falling Christian, is not that word which holds up worlds able also to hold you up? Trust that word. Depend implicitly upon it. Rest wholly upon it: and then you will find rest in it. Heb.4:1-3. Trust the Lord to hold you up, just as you trust Him to hold up the sun. His word holds up the sun, and His word is over and over to you, "Fear thou not; for I am with thee." "I will uphold thee." "I will keep thee, thou art Mine." "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

"The word of God is quick, and powerful." Heb.4:12. "Powerful" means "full of power." The word of God is living anf full of power, to do for you, with you, and in you, all that that word says. Believe that word, trust it; for it is the word of the living God. It is the word of the pitying Savior. "Reveive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." "I commend you to God, and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up." Acts 20:32.

"You are kept through the power of God through faith." 1 Peter 1:5. The power of God is manifested through His word, and therefore it is His powerful word. Faith comes by hearing the word of God; therefore it is the faithful word, the word full of faith which we preach. Rom.10:8. Therefore when He says, you "are kept by the power of God through faith," it is only saying in another way, You are kept by the word of God, "unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." Believe that word, trust it, and find its keeping power! Amen.

Received the Word of God, not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, and every command becomes a promise. Therefore, in every command of the word of God is the power, the very life of the infinite One by which the command may be fulfilled and the promise realized. John 6:63; 12:50. Praise His Word!

"And they were astonished at His teaching, for His word was with power." Luke 4:42.

Abraham is the father of all them that be of faith. Rom.4:11. The record of Abraham, then, gives instruction in faith--what it is, and what it does for him who has it. What shall we say, then, that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the faith, hath found? What saith the Scripture?

When Abram was more than eighty years old, and Sarai his wife was old, and he had no child, God "brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be." Rom.4:3,18.

And Abram "believed in the Lord; and He counted it to him for righteousness." Gen.15:5,6. Abram accepted the word of God, and expected by the word what the word said. And in that he was right.

Sarai, however, did not put her expectation upon the word of God only. She resorted to a device of her own to bring forth seed. She said to Abraham, "The Lord hath restrained me from bearing; I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her." Gen.16:2.

Abram, for the moment, swerved from the perfect integrity of faith. Instead of holding fast his expectation and dependence upon the word of God only, he "harkened to the voice of Sarai." Accordingly, a child was born; but the whole matter proved to be so unsatisfactory to Sarai that she repudiated her own arrangement. And God showed his repudiation of it by totally ignoring the fact that any child had been born.

He changed Abram's name to Abraham, and continued to talk about making him the father of nations through the seed promised, and of making His covenant with Abraham and the seed that was promised. He also changed Sarai's name to Sarah, because she should "be a mother of nations" through the promised seed.

Abraham noticed this total ignoring of the child that had been born, and called the Lord's attention to it, saying, "O, that Ishmael might live before Thee!" But "God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shall call his name Isaac: and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him."

By all this, both Abram and Sarai were taught that, in carrying out the promise, the fulfilling of the word of God, nothing would answer but dependence upon that word only. Sarai learned that her device brought only trouble and perplexity, and delayed the fulfillment of the promise. Abram learned that in harkening to the voice of Sarai, he had missed the word of God; and that now he must abandon that whole scheme, and turn again to the word of God only.

But now Abraham was 99 years old, and Sarah was 89. And, if anything, this seemed to put farther off than ever the fulfillment of the word, and called for a deeper dependence upon the word of God--a greater faith than before.

It was perfectly plain that now there was no possibility of dependence upon anything whatever, but the naked word only: they were shut up absolutely to this for the accomplishment of what the word said. All works, devices, plans, and efforts of their own were excluded, and they were shut up to faith alone,--shut up to the word alone, and to absolute dependence upon that word only for the accomplishment of what that word said.

And now that the way was clear for "the word only" to work, that word did work effectually, (1 Thess.2:13) and the promised "seed" was born. And so "through faith,"--through helpless, total dependence upon the word only,--"Sarah herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised."

And "therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the seashore innumerable." Heb.11:12.

And thus was fulfilled the word spoken to Abraham, when God "brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them... So shall thy seed be."

This is a divine lesson in faith. And this is what the Scripture means when urging upon us the necessity of cultivating faith. For this was imputed to Abraham for righteousness, even the righteousness which is of God by faith.

And all "they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham." All they who, excluding--yea, repudiating works, plans, devices, and efforts, of their own, depend in utter helplessness upon the word of God only to accomplish what that word says,--these are they which be of faith, and are blessed with faithful Abraham with the righteousness of God.

O, "understanding how to exercise faith: this is the science of the gospel! And the science of the gospel is the science of siences. Who would not strain every nerve to understand it?

"Now when Jesus had entered Capernahum, a centurion came to Him, pleading with Him, saying, 'Lord, my servant is lying at home paralysed, dreadfully tormented. And Jesus said to him, 'I will go and heal him.' The centurion answered and said, 'Lord I am not worthy that You should come under my roof. But ONLY SPEAK THE WORD and my servant will be healed. For I also am a man under authority, having soldiers under me. And I say to this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come,' and he comes; and to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it.' When Jesus heard it, He marveled, and said to those who followed, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel.'" Matt.8:6-10.

And "These things were written for our admonition on whom the end of the ages have come. 1 Cor. 10:11. "When the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8.

What did the Centurion depend or rest upon for the healing of his servant? "The word only." And Jesus, who is the author of faith, says that that is faith, even "great faith." Now then, what is faith? Faith is the expecting the word of God to do what it says, and the depending upon that word only to do what it says.

As that is faith, and as faith comes by the word of God, it is plain that the word of God, in order to inculcate faith, must teach that the word of God has in itself power to accomplish what itself says. And such is precisely the truth of the matter; the word of God does teach just that, and nothing else; so that it is truly "the faithful word"--the word full of faith. "All Your commandments are faithful." Ps.119:86, 138. "This is the word of faith which we preach." Rom.10: 8. "This is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." 1 Peter 1:25.

The greater part of the first chapter of the Bible is instruction in faith. That chapter has in itself no fewer than six distinct statements that definitely inculcate faith; with the essential connective of the first verse, there are seven. The inculcation of faith is the teaching that the word of God itself accomplishes the thing which is spoken in that word. "My word shall accomplish that which I please." Isa.55:11.

Therefore, faith is the depending upon "the word only" for the accomplishment of what that word says. Then and only then does "The word effectually work in them that believe" that! 1 Thess.2:13. Is this not the rest that is enjoined in the Sabbath and that the apostle Paul had in mind in Heb.4 and Heb.3:18,19? The rest that the Jewish people did not enter in though they strickly refrained from any physical labor on the seventh day of the week!

[This message has been edited by adventbeliever (edited April 13, 2001).]

Faithlessness in SOP moves into faithlessness in Scripture quickly.

------------------
Edward F Sutton