Please read the following quotations and answer the questions listed below:

1. Are we responsible for the expulsion of known sin in our lives?

2. If so, how do we expell known sin?

3. Is there any excuse for known sin?

4. Can we live without known sin now?

DA 466.4
In the work of redemption there is no compulsion. No external force is employed. Under the influence of the Spirit of God, man is left free to choose whom he will serve. In the change that takes place when the soul surrenders to Christ, there is the highest sense of freedom. The expulsion of sin is the act of the soul itself. True, we have no power to free ourselves from Satan's control; but when we desire to be set free from sin, and in our great need cry out for a power out of and above ourselves, the powers of the soul are imbued with the divine energy of the Holy Spirit, and they obey the dictates of the will in fulfilling the will of God.

FLB 91.2
The expulsion of sin is the act of the soul itself. In its great need the soul cries out for a power out of and above itself; and through the operation of the Holy Spirit the nobler powers of the mind are imbued with strength to break away from the bondage of sin.

RH 11-24-1885, paragraph 7
It is not enough that we merely profess the faith; something more than a nominal assent is wanted. There must be a real knowledge, a genuine experience in the principles of the truth as it is in Jesus. The Holy Spirit must work within, bringing these principles into the strong light of distinct consciousness, that we may know their power and make them a living reality. The mind must yield obedience to the royal law of liberty, the law which the Spirit of God impresses upon the heart, and makes plain to the understanding. The expulsion of sin must be the act of the soul itself, in calling into exercise its noblest powers. The only freedom a finite will can enjoy, consists in coming into harmony with the will of God, complying with the conditions that make man a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Mike, don't you think that it would be good advice to first come to terms with Rom.7 before we begin any other thread of the nature of which you have just begun? Because the answer to your questions depend upon whether we believe the experience described in Rom.7 is the experience of a Christian or a would-be Christian!

If you return to the thread on Rom.7, which you have started, you will see that I have quoted a few statements from Elders Jones and Waggoner whom I believe spoke the truth in regard to the experience described in Rom.7. And don't forget, you have not yet addressed the quotes from S.C. p.19 and D.A. p.203 and G.C. p.461 which agree with the statements made by Jones and Waggoner.

AB, I think you're right about the tie between the two topics. But I guess I don't see a problem with discussing them separately. I believe it's possible to answer the questions I listed above without first deciding what we believe about the converted status of the man in Romans 7. Whether he's converted or not shouldn't affect what we believe about the expulsion of sin. Do you see what I mean?

1. Are we responsible for the expulsion of known sin in our lives? Yes! But we are responsible for decision but not for the power. The power is God's that expels the sin. See DA 671

2. If so, how do we expell known sin? By allowing the Holy Spirit, through the Word of God, to reveal it to us and then we consent to have it removed.

3. Is there any excuse for known sin? None.

4. Can we live without known sin now? Yes.

5. Can we do these on our own? No.

6. If we fail are we to be cast out? No.

7. Will Jesus have a victorious people? Yes. Numbers 23:21 He(Jesus) has not seen iniquity in Jacob(us), neither has He seen perverseness in Israel; the Lord his God is with him...

6. If we fail are we to be cast out? No.
*******
Greg, could you elaborate a little on this last quote of yours, please? Thanks.

I was speaking in the context of I John 1:9. If we stumble and fall does God immediately want to get rid of us. No! If we refuse to cooperate with God and there is nothing else He can do will He allow us our choice? Yes.
I hope that clears up my thoughts. Any comment on the rest of the issues?

Is the expulsion of sin the same thing as resisting temptation? Isn't that what happens when we turn to God for power to cease from sin? Does God resist temptation on our behalf, or does He grant us the ability to do it upon request?

What does she mean by - Subjection to God is restoration to one's self?

DA 466.The only condition upon which the freedom of man is possible is that of becoming one with Christ. "The truth shall make you free;" and Christ is the truth. Sin can triumph only by enfeebling the mind, and destroying the liberty of the soul. Subjection to God is restoration to one's self,--to the true glory and dignity of man. The divine law, to which we are brought into subjection, is "the law of liberty." James 2:12.

DA 664.4 "Verily, verily, I say unto you," Christ continued, "He that believeth on Me, the works that I do shall he do also." The Saviour was deeply anxious for His disciples to understand for what purpose His divinity was united to humanity. He came to the world to display the glory of God, that man might be uplifted by its restoring power. God was manifested in Him that He might be manifested in them. Jesus revealed no qualities, and exercised no powers, that men may not have through faith in Him. His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was.

Now I'll buy in...

The answer is "No". Our only responsibility is to come to God, and give Him permission to will and do of His good pleasure. But we must ceaselessly approach Him in every way we can, which includes prayer, bible study, and service to others.

Zyph, I appreciate your diligent efforts to avoid the trap of thinking that we can work our way to heaven, or that we can do anything to save ourselves. But don't you also think we should be careful that the pendulum not swing the other way?

How would you personally apply the following passages:

MCP 691.3 "The Spirit of God does not propose to do our part, either in the willing or the doing. This is the work of the human agent in cooperating with the divine agencies. As soon as we incline our will to harmonize with God's will, the grace of Christ stands to cooperate with the human agent; but it will not be the substitute to do our work independent of our resolving and decidedly acting. Lt 135, 1898."

MCP 692.4 "When we place our will in unison with the will of God, the holy obedience that was exemplified in the life of Christ will be seen in our lives. --MS 48, 1899. (HC 107.)"

MCP 693.4 "Our will is to be yielded to Him that we may receive it again, purified and refined, and so linked in sympathy with the Divine that He can pour through us the tides of His love and power.--MB 61, 62 (1896)."

1. Are we responsible for the expulsion of known sin in our lives?

Yes...We all have the choice to sin or not to sin. We can not do it on our own however...we are convictd of sin through the Holy Spirit then we must allow the Holy Spirit o work in us to overcome sin.

Exodus 20:20
And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

Psalms 4:4
Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2. If so, how do we expell known sin?

I have found that when I have been convicted of a known sin in my life if I will go to Jesus and ask for forgiveness and truly want to give up that sin through the power of the Holy Spirt it has been taken from me. HOWEVER...My problem is there are things I LIKE and don't want to give up so I allow my mind to not completely give it to Jesus. .

1 Corinthians 15:57
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7
Page 974
Revelation

11 (Deut. 33:25; see EGW on 2 Thess. 2:7-12). Power to Conquer Day by Day.--All who will can be overcomers. Let us strive earnestly to reach the standard set before us. Christ knows our weakness, and to Him we can go daily for help. It is not necessary for us to gain strength a month ahead. We are to conquer from day to day (MS 28, 1886).

3. Is there any excuse for known sin? No.

4. Can we live without known sin now?

Yes...I believe it is possible. But only through the working power of the Holy Spirt..

Christ's Object Lessons
Page 311
Without a Wedding Garment

This robe, woven in the loom of heaven, has in it not one thread of human devising. Christ in His humanity wrought out a perfect character, and this character He offers to impart to us. "All our righteousness are as filthy rags." Isa. 64:6. Everything that we of ourselves can do is defiled by sin. But the Son of God "was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin." Sin is defined to be "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:5, 4. But Christ was obedient to every requirement of the law. He said of Himself, "I delight to do Thy will, O My God; yea, Thy law is within My heart." Ps. 40:8. When on earth, He said to His disciples, "I have kept My Father's commandments." John 15:10. By His perfect obedience He has made it possible for every human being to obey God's commandments. When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life.This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness. Then as the Lord looks upon us He sees, not the fig-leaf garment, not the nakedness and deformity of sin, but His own robe of righteousness, which is perfect obedience to the law of Jehovah.

5. Can we do these on our own? No..

Reflecting Christ
Page 94
The Contrast Between John And Judas

John and Judas are representatives of those who profess to be Christ's followers. Both these disciples had the same opportunities to study and follow the divine Pattern. . . . Each possessed serious defects of character; and each had access to the divine grace that transforms character. But while one in humility was learning of Jesus, the other revealed that he was not a doer of the word, but a hearer only. One, daily dying to self and overcoming sin, was sanctified through the truth; the other, resisting the transforming power of grace and indulging selfish desires, was brought into bondage to Satan. . .

6. If we fail are we to be cast out?

No. Praise God we have a longsuffering and forgiving God who hears our prayers and understantds where we are in our life..and forgives us our sins when we come to Him and repent..

Numbers 14:18
The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

Psalms 86:15
But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, longsuffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Avalee ]

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Avalee ]

Avalee:
Those were some wonderful responses. I especially like the one about John and Judas.
An interesting quote about expellling sin in in DA 671. She says it is the Holy Spirit expelling misconceptions and error through His power and through the Word. We still control the choice of whether we will allow God to do it or not.

"The Spirit of God does not propose to do our part, either in the willing or the doing. This is the work of the human agent in cooperating with the divine agencies. As soon as we incline our will to harmonize with God's will, the grace of Christ stands to cooperate with the human agent; but it will not be the substitute to do our work independent of our resolving and decidedly acting. Lt 135, 1898." God doesn't lift us gently out of bed and move our limbs to dress us. We "resolve" to do that which has occurred to us through the prompting of the Spirit. This has been achieved thus: "Our will is to be yielded to Him that we may receive it again, purified and refined, and so linked in sympathy with the Divine that He can pour through us the tides of His love and power." HE pours through us.

"All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with Christ. And IF WE CONSENT (my capitals), He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that WHEN OBEYING HIM WE SHALL BE BUT CARRYING OUT OUR OWN IMPULSES (my capitals). "

Step 1 = consent
Step 2 = carry out our own impulses
"The will, refined and sanctified, will find its highest delight in doing His service.

"When we know God as it is our privilege to know Him, our life will be a life of continual obedience. Through an appreciation of the character of Christ, through communion with God, sin will become hateful to us."

So knowing God enables us to obey and overcome sin. And HE will blend our hearts and minds into conformity with His will.

We are responsible for getting to know Him. He is reasponsible for the rest.

So the effort is in getting to know God and choosing to submit to Him. Then the willing and doing will be according to our own impulses because we will be in harmony with the mind of God.

Zyph, thank you for those insights. Great quotes, eh! Although I have this feeling that you are purposefully reminding us that there's nothing we can do to produce fruit, and it seems as if you are taking this point as far as to mean that not even our Spirit inspired and empowered thoughts, words and deeds are the result of our cooperating with heaven's appointed agencies? Am I misunderstanding you?

Seems to me God doesn't do the willing and doing for us, but rather He empowers us to will and to do it for Him. The problem doesn't seem to be that we lack the hardware to imitate the sinless example of Jesus. Instead, the problem seems to be that we lack the software. But when we completely submit and surrender ourselves to Jesus as our personal Saviour it appears that God miraculously installs the software necessary to operate our hard drive systems. And no, God isn't the one sitting at the keyboard - we are!

Perhaps these quotes will be helpful:

COL 98, 99 "The leaven hidden in the flour works invisibly to bring the whole mass under its leavening process; so the leaven of truth works secretly, silently, steadily, to transform the soul. The natural inclinations are softened and subdued. New thoughts, new feelings, new motives, are implanted. A new standard of character is set up--the life of Christ. The mind is changed; the faculties are roused to action in new lines. Man is not endowed with new faculties, but the faculties he has are sanctified. The conscience is awakened. We are endowed with traits of character that enable us to do service for God.

"Often the question arises, Why, then, are there so many, claiming to believe God's word, in whom there is not seen a reformation in words, in spirit, and in character? Why are there so many who cannot bear opposition to their purposes and plans, who manifest an unholy temper, and whose words are harsh, overbearing, and passionate? There is seen in their lives the same love of self, the same selfish indulgence, the same temper and hasty speech, that is seen in the life of the worldling. There is the same sensitive pride, the same yielding to natural inclination, the same perversity of character, as if the truth were wholly unknown to them. The reason is that they are not converted. They have not hidden the leaven of truth in the heart. It has not had opportunity to do its work. Their natural and cultivated tendencies to evil have not been submitted to its transforming power. Their lives reveal the absence of the grace of Christ, an unbelief in His power to transform the character."

COL 353, 354 "Talents used are talents multiplied. Success is not the result of chance or of destiny; it is the outworking of God's own providence, the reward of faith and discretion, of virtue and persevering effort. The Lord desires us to use every gift we have; and if we do this, we shall have greater gifts to use. He does not supernaturally endow us with the qualifications we lack; but while we use that which we have, He will work with us to increase and strengthen every faculty. By every wholehearted, earnest sacrifice for the Master's service our powers will increase. While we yield ourselves as instruments for the Holy Spirit's working, the grace of God works in us to deny old inclinations, to overcome powerful propensities, and to form new habits. As we cherish and obey the promptings of the Spirit, our hearts are enlarged to receive more and more of His power, and to do more and better work. Dormant energies are aroused, and palsied faculties receive new life."