In fact, why couldn't Jesus have been killed in Eden, after sin entered, and then only those who instigated sin on this planet would have suffered the consequences?

I have my own answers to this question, but I'd be very interested to hear from others.

We who have all the Bible and all the history of the Bible should have an easier response because we can "see". Right? Never the less it is difficult for us to respond even with all the light we have.

It seems also that Jesus would be enough but God's ways mandate that we have to get involved to. We must play our role in the great controversy both to reveal truth and to have the experience of overcoming for ourselves.

The Great Controversy--- Facing Life's Record
-PG- 489
The intercession of Christ in man's behalf in the sanctuary above is as essential to the plan of salvation as was His death upon the cross. By His death He began that work which after His resurrection He ascended to complete in heaven.
We must by faith enter within the veil, "whither the forerunner is for us entered." Hebrews 6:20. There the light from the cross of Calvary is reflected. There we may gain a clearer insight into the mysteries of redemption. The salvation
of man is accomplished at an infinite expense to heaven; the sacrifice made is equal to the broadest demands of the broken law of God. Jesus has opened the way to the Father's throne, and through His mediation the sincere desire of all
who come to Him in faith may be presented before God."

Also the Chapter on the Sanctuary might add much light.

The understanding of the symbols in the sancturary is vital to our salvation, the message is the Gospel in Symbols. The SDAs are the only ones that have the true meaning of these services and they were established by the Holy Spirit through the Pioneers of the church. What Ellen White has to write on the subject is very important to this subject. And it is all in the Bible.

God is good

Some of which only God will be able to explain, the real work here below is to find out what God has revealed in this matter.

Ok, it might help to clearly define the question(s) .

Then What is the big picture ?

After all this is God, sin, eternal life, eternal death, Earth & the universe involved . God is Daddy to the whole universe and all it's ramifications.

Please...take some of our Alberta cold for your nice sunny warmth, "down under." Minus 32 celsius is a bit cold for me!

I have something to say that has been really meaningful; and I would value your thoughts/opinions on it.

I have often asked a similar question: why didn't it all end at the cross; or why wasn't the cross enough?

I have grown to look at this from the Isa.53 perspective.

It did not end at the cross, because "by His stripes, we are healed."

I will leave it at that for now, and see what develops.

I don't understand why people live in inhospitable environments, honestly. You should move to sunny Queensland (my state), where your children could toboggan down sand dunes, and be bitten by the most poisonous spiders, snakes, and jellyfish in the world!

"Satan led men into sin, and the plan of redemption was put in operation. For four thousand years, Christ was working for man's uplifting, and Satan for his ruin and degradation. And the heavenly universe beheld it all.

"Not until the death of Christ was the character of Satan clearly revealed to the angels or to the unfallen worlds. The archapostate had so clothed himself with deception that even holy beings had not understood his principles. They had not clearly seen the nature of his rebellion." D.A.759,758.

What the angels and the unfallen worlds understood at the cross is little understood by mankind. That explains why time has elapsed. During the loud cry the earth will be lightened with the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Then the end of probation will come!

This light was to shine ater 1844 but because of unbelief the work was delayed. G.C.457,458. Again in 1888 there came another opportunity and again in 1901, but the beginning of that light which was to lighten the earth with its glory was resisted by the action of our own brethren (1 S.M.234,235) and kept away from the world in a large degree! T.M.96,97.

So time has continued. But a time is coming, and it may be even now, for the light to shine and the earth will be lightened with the knowledge of the goodness and mercy of God and Satan's principles will be exposed for what they really are!

God will have an army of believers who will be as fair as the moon and as bright as the sun! "The whole earth, wrapped as it is in the darkness of sins, and sorrow, and pain, is to be lighted with the knowledge of God's love. From no sect, rank, or class of people is the light shining from heaven's throne to be excluded." C.O.L.418.

"The wealth of His mercy, His love, His grace, is to appear in full and final display." T.M.18.

"The divine fullness will flow from the consecrated human agent, to be given forth to others... The revelation of His own glory in the form of humanity will bring Heaven so near to men that the beauty adorning the inner temple will be seen in every soul in whom the Savior dwells. Men will be captivated by the glory of an abiding Christ. And in currents of praise and thanksgiving, from the many souls thus won to God, glory will flow back to the great Giver." C.O.L.420.

[ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: adventbeliever ]

So, what did Jesus come to accomplish? Did He come to end the GC, or did He come to legitimize it? to make the GC possible? Seems to me Jesus came to prove to us that the law can be obeyed by born again believers. This didn't prove anything to Satan, because he already knew that God could obey His own law.

But Satan's main argument is that obeying God's law is impossible for created beings, since it limits our innate potential to surpass the requirements of the law, and therefore hinders our quest for true peace and happiness. All lies, of course. Thus in order for the GC to reach a climax human beings, born in sin, must respond to the gift of God in the sinless example of Christ Jesus and live a life without sin.

Only this experience can persuade Satan that his rebellion is based on a false premise, and only a tested final generation of saints (during JTOT) can ultimately vindicate the law, love, character and government of God. When the 144,000 manfully refuse to give up hope, faith and trust in God's promises to deliver them from JTOT - then Satan will see for the first time just how wrong he has been all long.

What Jesus could not accomplish by Himself as a man on earth he will fulfill in the persons of the 144,000 at the end of time. Why it has taken 2,000 years since the Cross, I don't know. But obviously the ensuing years have been necessary in the bigger picture in order for both sides of the conflict to fully document the evidence needed to substantiate their cases in the galatical court of appeals.

Anyhow, that's what makes sense to me.

Christ did not come to the earth to show how God could keep the law but how sinful men could obey every precept of His law if they would, like Him, be in subjection to the word of God as He was, as a fallen man, and not as God. By taking upon Himself our fallen sinful nature, he demonstrated that the law could be kept perfectly by the most degraded sinner though faith.

Did not the pioneers teach that what God did through Jesus He will do it again through a company of people, individuals from all nations and tongues and peoples? God needs to demonstrate that the law can be kept by human beings from every walk of life and from every possible background! Right?

[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: adventbeliever ]

However, whatever else Jesus demonstrated it was not enough to settle the GC once and for all. Thus I believe that although Jesus demonstrated the possibility of obedience, His human experience did NOT "prove" that fallen humans would choose to obey and remain obedient for eternity. That fact remains to be seen.

What Jesus could not "prove" through His own human experience He will prove through the human experience of the 144,000. When the translation generation of saints pass through the time of trouble and JTOT maintaining their loyalty and allegiance toward God THEN the devil will admit that he was wrong about the law, love, character and government of God.

But Jesus could not prove that to Satan while He was a human among men. If God could have proven the validity of His law by obeying it Himself then these past 6,000 years would have been unnecessary. Nothing could settle the matter more completely than a fallen human race redeemed by the love of God choosing to obey His law because it's the only way to experience the joy of perfect peace and happiness - even in a world marred by sin and death, how much more then in a perfect world of bliss?

quote:

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Delay of Christ's Coming Will Seem Short in Eternity--Dear brethren and sisters, Christ is soon to come. Will He find you ready and waiting? The bridal lamps must be kept trimmed and burning. His chariot wheels have been delayed because of His long-suffering to usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and have eternal life. When we shall stand with the redeemed upon the sea of glass, with harps of God and crowns of glory, and before us the unmeasured eternity, we shall then see how short was the waiting period of probation. "Blessed are those servants, whom the Lord when He cometh shall find watching" (Luke 12:37).--Letter 21, 1886, p. 5. (To Brethren and Sisters in Healdsburg, July 9, 1886.) {10MR 266.2}

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While doing some searching on this topic I came upon the above quote and it touched my heart so much. Each day I pray for the soon coming of Jesus to take us home to live with Him and the Holy Angels. In my thoughts I do not even want to think of another 2 years in this dark old world. Yet I pray "Your will be done". I know Jesus has His timetable and He knows the right time for His return...and like it says...when we are standing with the redeemed on the sea of glass I am sure we will see how short the time was. But in my frail human mind it seems so very long. So I will continue to pray each day for Jesus soon coming and for Jesus character to be reproduced in me because that is what He is waiting for.

quote:

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Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of the Saviour shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim His own. It is the privilege of every Christian, not only to look for, but to hasten, the coming of our Lord. Were all who profess His name bearing fruit to His glory, how quickly the whole world would be sown with the seed of the gospel! Quickly the last great harvest would be ripened, and Christ would come. {Mar 112.5}

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Revelation 22:20
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Avalee ]