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Re: Why Wasn't the Cross Enough?
#44718
02/02/02 03:03 AM
02/02/02 03:03 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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The fact we're still here 2,000 years after the Cross is evidence the life, death and resurrection of Jesus did not answer all the issues and allegations associated with the great controversy. It's not my place to question why, but to discern what more God needs to demonstrate to safeguard the future universe from a repeat of rebellion. So, what did Jesus come to accomplish? Did He come to end the GC, or did He come to legitimize it? to make the GC possible? Seems to me Jesus came to prove to us that the law can be obeyed by born again believers. This didn't prove anything to Satan, because he already knew that God could obey His own law. But Satan's main argument is that obeying God's law is impossible for created beings, since it limits our innate potential to surpass the requirements of the law, and therefore hinders our quest for true peace and happiness. All lies, of course. Thus in order for the GC to reach a climax human beings, born in sin, must respond to the gift of God in the sinless example of Christ Jesus and live a life without sin. Only this experience can persuade Satan that his rebellion is based on a false premise, and only a tested final generation of saints (during JTOT) can ultimately vindicate the law, love, character and government of God. When the 144,000 manfully refuse to give up hope, faith and trust in God's promises to deliver them from JTOT - then Satan will see for the first time just how wrong he has been all long. What Jesus could not accomplish by Himself as a man on earth he will fulfill in the persons of the 144,000 at the end of time. Why it has taken 2,000 years since the Cross, I don't know. But obviously the ensuing years have been necessary in the bigger picture in order for both sides of the conflict to fully document the evidence needed to substantiate their cases in the galatical court of appeals. Anyhow, that's what makes sense to me.
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Re: Why Wasn't the Cross Enough?
#44719
02/04/02 04:31 AM
02/04/02 04:31 AM
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Mike: I have a couple question for you. Do I understand you to say that Jesus obeyed the law as God only could obey it? And the reason why the controversy has lasted so long is because the Lord has not yet been able to show Satan that the law can be kept by sinful human beings? I have always thought that that was exactly what Jesus proved, that the law could be kept by sinful human beings. Christ did not come to the earth to show how God could keep the law but how sinful men could obey every precept of His law if they would, like Him, be in subjection to the word of God as He was, as a fallen man, and not as God. By taking upon Himself our fallen sinful nature, he demonstrated that the law could be kept perfectly by the most degraded sinner though faith. Did not the pioneers teach that what God did through Jesus He will do it again through a company of people, individuals from all nations and tongues and peoples? God needs to demonstrate that the law can be kept by human beings from every walk of life and from every possible background! Right? [ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: adventbeliever ]
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Re: Why Wasn't the Cross Enough?
#44720
02/04/02 05:54 PM
02/04/02 05:54 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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AB, thank you for restating that point. Truly Jesus did demonstrate that fallen human beings are capable of perfect obedience IF they will trust in God as Jesus trusted in His Father. However, whatever else Jesus demonstrated it was not enough to settle the GC once and for all. Thus I believe that although Jesus demonstrated the possibility of obedience, His human experience did NOT "prove" that fallen humans would choose to obey and remain obedient for eternity. That fact remains to be seen. What Jesus could not "prove" through His own human experience He will prove through the human experience of the 144,000. When the translation generation of saints pass through the time of trouble and JTOT maintaining their loyalty and allegiance toward God THEN the devil will admit that he was wrong about the law, love, character and government of God. But Jesus could not prove that to Satan while He was a human among men. If God could have proven the validity of His law by obeying it Himself then these past 6,000 years would have been unnecessary. Nothing could settle the matter more completely than a fallen human race redeemed by the love of God choosing to obey His law because it's the only way to experience the joy of perfect peace and happiness - even in a world marred by sin and death, how much more then in a perfect world of bliss?
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Re: Why Wasn't the Cross Enough?
#44721
02/24/02 08:26 AM
02/24/02 08:26 AM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,061
Australia
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I suspect there is a partial answer to this question in physics. Not only does God have to remake us spiritually via the new birth but also, at the culmination of history, he has to make new heavens and a new earth. Could it be that stepping out of the natural order of things by disobeying God, man set in motion a chain of destruction seemingly unrelated to the original issue, but nevertheless a natural consequence? Obedience is only one of the building blocks that are interlocked in a functioning and harmonious universe.
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Re: Why Wasn't the Cross Enough?
#44722
02/24/02 10:13 PM
02/24/02 10:13 PM
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Charter Member Active Member 2013
Veteran Member
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 847
USA
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Zyph, what an interesting thought! I wonder if there is anything in the SOP concerning this? I would sure like to know, and will look in the index, but, it may be in some obscure letter or article if it is there. Something to cause one to ponder.... But VERY interesting!
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Re: Why Wasn't the Cross Enough?
#44723
02/25/02 02:32 AM
02/25/02 02:32 AM
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One of the interesting by products of Jesus life is that He proved that a man with a sinless character could keep God's law. That showed that Adam was in error. The next drama is can men and women with sinful characters allow God to live in them in such a manner that they to can overcome all sin and live just like Jesus did. The answer is yes. We will vindicate the name of Jesus through His works and through His power, and through His indwelling. Ezekiel 36:23
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Re: Why Wasn't the Cross Enough?
#44724
02/25/02 03:08 AM
02/25/02 03:08 AM
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Charter Member Active Member 2013
Veteran Member
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 847
USA
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Very well said, Greg! We will vindicate the name of Jesus by concentrating on a relationship with Him, and not on our sins.
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Re: Why Wasn't the Cross Enough?
#44725
03/07/02 05:47 PM
03/07/02 05:47 PM
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Charter Member Active Member 2014
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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quote: Delay of Christ's Coming Will Seem Short in Eternity--Dear brethren and sisters, Christ is soon to come. Will He find you ready and waiting? The bridal lamps must be kept trimmed and burning. His chariot wheels have been delayed because of His long-suffering to usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and have eternal life. When we shall stand with the redeemed upon the sea of glass, with harps of God and crowns of glory, and before us the unmeasured eternity, we shall then see how short was the waiting period of probation. "Blessed are those servants, whom the Lord when He cometh shall find watching" (Luke 12:37).--Letter 21, 1886, p. 5. (To Brethren and Sisters in Healdsburg, July 9, 1886.) {10MR 266.2}
While doing some searching on this topic I came upon the above quote and it touched my heart so much. Each day I pray for the soon coming of Jesus to take us home to live with Him and the Holy Angels. In my thoughts I do not even want to think of another 2 years in this dark old world. Yet I pray "Your will be done". I know Jesus has His timetable and He knows the right time for His return...and like it says...when we are standing with the redeemed on the sea of glass I am sure we will see how short the time was. But in my frail human mind it seems so very long. So I will continue to pray each day for Jesus soon coming and for Jesus character to be reproduced in me because that is what He is waiting for. quote: Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of the Saviour shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim His own. It is the privilege of every Christian, not only to look for, but to hasten, the coming of our Lord. Were all who profess His name bearing fruit to His glory, how quickly the whole world would be sown with the seed of the gospel! Quickly the last great harvest would be ripened, and Christ would come. {Mar 112.5}
Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. In The Blessed Hope Avalee
[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Avalee ]
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