I don’t know for sure if this is a safe topic to begin; but I will try it and see what develops.

Christian “perfection,” seems to be a problem no matter where you go, or who you ask, and I would say it remains so – even in the secular world.

Why does Christian perfection, or related subjects, seem to always generate very bitter arguments?

Why cannot believers all give Christian perfection the same importance? Why so many different views on it? Some tend to see it as a moral ideal of some kind, which is realizable, more or less, in our everyday life. Yet, for other people, Christian perfection is a complete and total, imperative obligation for them, where salvation is impossible without whatever they see perfection as being.

Seventh Day Adventists, along with many other faith groups, are troubled by this question of perfection. Let us use this thread to explore what the Bible and the SOP have to say on Christian perfection:

1/ We do know that perfection, is a definite Bible teaching.

So now we have another of my many questions. Is perfection even possible?

I did not realize that there was already a thread on perfection; I did check; but must have missed it. After a brief glance at the other thread; I think that I will be approaching it in this thread somewhat differently.

Maybe we could run with this thread for a bit to see...

When I first started studying this subject of Biblical perfection; I found myself immediately confronted by the scarcity of actual Bible texts on this subject. It is true, that in all my studies of the Bible, I could recognize that the entire Book is a clarion call to “perfection.”

But, It is with trepidation that I recall some of the more “famous” texts involving a direct counsel on being “perfect.”

A/ God’s Precept to Abraham: “Walk before Me, and be thou perfect.” (Gen.17:1).

B/ The Master’s Enjoinment: “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Mat.5:48).

Should the ultimate goal of Christians, in fact be that of perfection? Are there any goals that would be classed as a higher attainment than perfection? Is God’s perception and depiction of perfection, the same as our’s typically is?

The Apostle Paul writes an example for Christians to follow, that falls in line with the topic at hand; yet, this example does nothing to tell us of the priority we should assign to perfection. How important is “perfection,” and why is it so essential for believers?

Says Paul: “Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended but this one thing I do: Forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press towards the mark, for the prize of the high calling of God, in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded.” (Phil.3:12-15).

Now, we have typically looked at this text in Phillipians, and said things like “God calls us to perfection.” Is that really true?

Notice what Paul does not say here. He does not say that people are being called to perfection. We are “called by God, through Christ.” But what are we called to? Why does Paul say: “Let therefore as many as be perfect?…. This sounds like people who are sensing their calling by God, through Christ, are already either perfect, or not perfect??? So, how and why does perfection happen?

Certainly, this text denotes the fact that perfection, whatever it is, and however it really happens, is indeed possible. How reasonable is it of God to create a need like perfection deep in our hearts, without, at this same time, giving us the possibilities and the means, by which to meet this need?

So, what is the true nature of perfection?

How necessary is it?

How can we decide if “perfection" has taken place, in ourselves or others?

Should Christians tell others to be perfect, “because the Bible says it?” What are right and wrong motives surrounding perfection?

It was to the rich young ruler, inquiring what more he needed to do to inherit eternal life; that Jesus said: “If you would be perfect; go, sell what you possess, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” (Mat.19:21).

Does this text mean that if we fulfil certain conditions, that “perfection” is possible? If so, then why aren’t people “perfect,” who do this? Who "fulfil" the conditions? Christ also said in this Scripture, how difficult it is for some people to enter into heaven; while He assured His appalled, and very cynical disciples: “With men this is impossible: But, with God, all things are possible!!!” (Mat.19:26).

So, here we have it in a brief nutshell. Perfection; whatever it is, and however it really happens, cannot happen, without God.

Are we in agreement so far?

Since Jesus is an example of this parable, how can we use this passage to prove it teaches we gradually out grow our unknown defects of character?

Kids always seem to say it better than us?

Here are a few more thoughts:

Part Two

The apostles seemed like they were the first real eyewitnesses of “perfection” happening in someone – through our Lord, Jesus Christ. It is only through Christ, that the impossible, becomes possible: “For by a single offering; He has perfected for all time, those who are sanctified…” (Heb.10:14). So here we have a close relationship with perfection, and sanctification. To the disciples, perfection seemed so real – especially to Paul; that he quite naturally referred to his readers as “perfect,” and, even counted himself in with them; even though, paradoxically, Paul did show that he recognized the fact that he had not yet fully reached perfection:

1 Cor. 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

Phil.3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

So we have a connection between sanctification and perfection. And, we have mixed ideas about when a person really is “perfect,” or “sanctified.

Now what?

What you said about "becoming less and less sinful," over time, sounds like evolution.

"Sin gets better?"

When we speak about perfection; I believe that the following picture, says a thousand words:

[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: DavidTBattler ]

Luke 10:42 But one thing is needful;which shall not be taken away from her.

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: DavidTBattler ]

Prophets and Kings--In the Court of Babylon-- 486

"In acquiring the wisdom of the Babylonians, Daniel and his companions were far more successful than their fellow students; but their learning did not come by chance. They obtained their knowledge by the faithful use of their powers, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They placed themselves in connection with the Source of all wisdom, making the knowledge of God the foundation of their education. In faith they prayed for wisdom, and they lived their prayers. They placed themselves where God could bless
them. They avoided that which would weaken their powers, and improved every opportunity to become intelligent in all lines of learning. They followed the rules of life that could not fail to give them strength of intellect. They sought
to acquire knowledge for one purpose--that they might honor God. They realized that in order to stand as representatives of true religion amid the false religions of heathenism they must have clearness of intellect and must perfect a Christian character. And God Himself was their teacher. Constantly praying, conscientiously studying, keeping in touch with the Unseen, they walked with God as did Enoch."

What does this mean; to "be perfect in Him?"

Charlene

Why do we always say something like: "We can become," as if "perfection" is something way into the distant future; obscure to all but the most "obedient" believers?

Most of the texts I see on perfection seem to suggest that perfection is not something we have to wait for.

Let me repeat the first paragraph from my last post, so we can catch the drift better of where I am headed:

The apostles seemed like they were the first real eyewitnesses of “perfection” happening in someone – through our Lord, Jesus Christ. It is only through Christ, that the impossible, becomes possible: “For by a single offering; He has perfected for all time, those who are sanctified…” (Heb.10:14).

So here we have a close relationship with perfection, and sanctification. To the disciples, perfection seemed so real – especially to Paul; that he quite naturally referred to his readers as “perfect,” and, even counted himself in with them; even though, paradoxically, Paul did show that he recognized the fact that he had not yet fully reached perfection:

1 Cor. 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

Phil.3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

So we have a connection between sanctification and perfection. And, we have mixed ideas about when a person really is “perfect,” or “sanctified. Now what?

I have found two quotes that seem to sound good; yet, I find, they add to the same confusion I have been expressing. Let us look at the quotes first; then I will try to explain what I mean:

AA.565.001
True sanctification means perfect love, perfect obedience, perfect conformity to the will of God. We are to be sanctified to God through obedience to the truth. Our conscience must be purged from dead works to serve the living God. We are not yet perfect; but it is our privilege to cut away from the entanglements of self and sin, and advance to perfection. Great possibilities, high and holy attainments, are placed within the reach of all.

GC.470.002
Those who experience the sanctification of the Bible will manifest a spirit of humility. Like Moses, they have had a view of the awful majesty of holiness, and they see their own unworthiness in contrast with the purity and exalted perfection of the Infinite One.

It seems from these two SOP quotes, that we are being told that sanctification is closely tied to perfection; and that Christ is intimately attached to both sanctification, and perfection. It would be good to dig deeper into the meaning and depth of Christ’s connection, to OUR perfection. What does He want us to know about it?

In other places in the Bible, the Apostle Paul declares that “He that hath begun a good work in you; will perform, (ie. Complete), it until the day of Jesus Christ.” (Phil.1:6).

Is that why he urges us to steadily advance towards “perfection?”

Heb. 6:1 tells us: “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,” to reach the state of “full-grown men,” (1 Cor.14:20, Phillips), so that we may experience coming closer and closer “to mature manhood, measuring by nothing less than the FULL stature of Christ.” (Eph.4:13, NEB).

Because it is He “whom we preach, warning every man PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS.”

What is the true relationship of Christ to our perfection? I don’t get this yet. It sounds like all the doctrines on perfection teach that we gradually get better, over time…and to me, that sounds like the echo of evolution, which in essence, teaches that sin gets better over time. What is the Bible truth about sin? How should we relate the sin problem, to perfection, without teaching evolutionary dogma?

There must be a reason that the Bible mentions warning every man PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS.”

Is it because, as Seventh Day Adventists; it is He “whom we preach, warning every man, in all wisdom, that we may,” what? “That we may,” what?

“That we may present every man PERFECT IN Christ Jesus!!” (see Col.1:28).

Now this subject is getting really confusing. How do you or I present anyone as “PERFECT in Christ Jesus?” What could this possibly mean to the church today; or to the individual believer?
Those who are presented "PERFECT" in Christ; whatever way that happens, or, whatever that means; are thos that "Wait upon the Lord..." What do you guys think?

The other example is the prodigal son. The father did not even wait to give the son a bath. He covered him with the coat of sonship, put the ring on his finger and related to him as his son. That son was perfect to that father. So with our Father in heaven.

Beings we are not born "perfect", we must become perfect, hence the use of that term. If you put it in the future distant...then that is how you see it, not me. He covers me with His robe as i journey up the narrow path.

As far as the "How" i thought the Quote was a very good formula for success. However, when we submit to God with a humble and contrite spirit, it is He that does the perfecting, what we need to do is cooperate with him, which is also covered in the quote.

Jesus began perfect and plus He became perfect. so becoming perfect obviouosly has nothing to do with gradually out growing unknown defects of character over a lifetime of sinning and repenting.

Why do so many people insist, in light of the example of Jesus, that born again believers spend the rest of their life overcoming this and that imperfection of character? The Bible simple does not support this idea.

quote:

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Perfection Through Christ's Merits
That I May Know Him
Page 130

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

Christ presents before us the highest perfection of Christian character, which throughout our lifetime we should aim to reach. . . . Concerning this perfection Paul writes: "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after. . . . I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:12-15). . . .

How can we reach the perfection specified by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ--our Great Teacher? Can we meet His requirement and attain to so lofty a standard? We can, else Christ would not have enjoined us to do so. He is our righteousness. In His humanity He has gone before us and wrought out for us perfection of character. We are to have the faith in Him that works by love and purifies the soul. Perfection of character is based upon that which Christ is to us. If we have constant dependence on the merits of our Saviour, and walk in His footsteps, we shall be like Him, pure and undefiled.

Our Saviour does not require impossibilities of any soul. He expects nothing of His disciples that He is not willing to give them grace and strength to perform. He would not call upon them to be perfect if He had not at His command every perfection of grace to bestow on the ones upon whom He would confer so high and holy a privilege. He has assured us that He is more willing to give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him than parents are to give good gifts to their children.

Our work is to strive to attain in our sphere of action the perfection that Christ in His life on the earth attained in every phase of character. He is our example. In all things we are to strive to honor God in character. In falling day by day so far short of the divine requirements, we are endangering our soul's salvation. We need to understand and appreciate the privilege with which Christ invests us, and to show our determination to reach the highest standard. We are to be wholly dependent on the power that He has promised to give us.

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I looked up the meaning of "strive" in the dictionary:

1 to devote serious effort or energy
2 to struggle in opposition

What does it mean to strive to attain in our sphere of action the perfection?

I personally believe it is possible to attain perfection in Christ. If it is not possible He would not have required it from us. As the quote above says it is possible only through dependence on the merits of Christ and following in His footsteps. Amen

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: Avalee ]

quote:

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The Science of Holiness
Page 131
Chapter 125

It is our lifework to be reaching forward to the perfection of Christian character, striving constantly for conformity to God's will. Day by day we are to press upward, ever upward, until of us it can be said, "Ye are complete in him" (Co. 2:10)

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The whole 125th chapter of the book "That I May Know Him" should be read..what a blessing.

This tells me that we are to be striving day by day, constantly...Satan for sure does not rest in working to get us to fall...so we need to be constantly on alert to satans temptations. We can not afford to let our guard down for one moment. Amen

Your post is a welcome addition to this line of study.

I have a question; which will likely spawn more questions; but, I guess that's what this is all for?

When are we "complete in Him?"

What do you see this book you have quoted from as making it's main point about regarding perfection, and when it is that we "arrive?"

[ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: Dora ]

It makes me tired, just thinking of all that "changing" I need to keep on DOING.

I want to be a human BEING; not a human DOING!! The Bible says that:

And, if that is so; then, that is also what we will BE.

How can we do perfection? We have to be perfection; so how does the Bible tell us, that this would happen?

"Be ye therefore perfect; even as your Father in heaven is perfect." (Mat.5:48).

I would really like to define the word before we get too much further.

When we speak of perfection; are we speaking of Justification?

Or, are we speaking of Sanctification?

That's what it sounds like to me; as I read these posts.

I am trying to see just what perfection is first, before trying to figure out the rest of this topic on Christian Perfection.

quote:

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A Continual Work
Amazing Grace
Page 291

For this is the will of God, even your sanctification. 1 Thess. 4:3

Sanctification is not the work of a moment, an hour, or a day. It is a continual growth in grace. We know not one day how strong will be our conflict the next. Satan lives, and is active, and every day we need to cry earnestly to God for help and strength to resist him. As long as Satan reigns we shall have self to subdue, besetments to overcome, and there is no stopping place, there is no point to which we can come and say we have fully attained. . . .

The Christian life is constantly an onward march. Jesus sits as a refiner and purifier of His people; and when His image is perfectly reflected in them, they are perfect and holy, and prepared for translation. A great work is required of the Christian. We are exhorted to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Here we see where the great labor rests. There is a constant work for the Christian.

None are living Christians unless they have a daily experience in the things of God and daily practice self-denial, cheerfully bearing the cross and following Christ. Every living Christian will advance daily in the divine life. As he advances toward perfection, he experiences a conversion to God every day; and this conversion is not completed until he attains to perfection of Christian character, a full preparation for the finishing touch of immortality. . . .

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As the quote says sanctification is a daily surrendering of ourselves to Christ...as I see it we need to each morning surrender ourselves to Christ in order to overcome what Satan will put in front of us that day to try to make us fall. Asking for the Holy Spirt to be with us and guide us through each moment of the day. Our thoughts should be so in tune with the Holy Spirit that we will know which way to go and which way not to go. This is a promise given to us by God...

Isaiah 30:21
And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: Avalee ]

I have asked myself the question regarding Christian perfection: “Are there any Biblical measuring criterias to discern and to define perfection?”

One text has been shining through, loud and clear:

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Notice carefully, what we are being told about what perfection is. Perfection appears to be inseparable from two things:

1) “Unity of the faith”
2) “Knowledge of the Son of God”

And notice; the measuring rod for perfection: "unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"

Christ is our standard.

The Bible says that “the entrance of God’s Word gives us light and understanding,” (Ps.119:130), and it is certainly so with “perfection.” God’s Word reveals to us “knowledge of the Son of God,” and IF we truly accept this knowledge, we will also see “unity of the faith,” amongst believers.

So, there is not much to question re the fact that the perfection which our Savior and Lord calls us to, is indeed possible. But, based upon even just this last text of Ephesians we have looked at briefly; it is impossible to obtain perfection, apart from Jesus Christ. This is the one condition which Jesus set before the rich young ruler, when He said “and come and follow Me.”

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

I want to come back to this passage in Mat.19:21, but first, I think it is best to deal a bit with defining exactly what perfection is:

What is the very best meaning which we could give to this sometimes, hotly discussed word, and still remain faithful to the original intention of the Bible writers?

In the next post; I will show a detailed exposition on this from the Bible.

So, why do we insist that pressing onward toward perfection of character means gradually laying aside our defects of character? If Jesus' example means anything at all - which I believe it means everything - then how can we go around saying that advancing toward perfection of character has anything to do with laying aside sin?

Since Jesus is clearly our example in pressing toward perfection of character it obviouosly cannot, simply cannot, have anything to do with gradually out growing our defects of character. It wasn't that way for Jesus therefore it cannot be that way for us. Plain and simple.

Testimonies for the Church Volume Four---PG- 346
"When a man is earnestly engaged day by day in overcoming the defects in his character, he is cherishing Christ in his soul-temple; the light of Christ is in him. Under the bright beams of the light of Christ's countenance his entire being
becomes elevated and ennobled. He has the peace of heaven in his soul. Many give loose rein to passion, avarice, selfishness, and deception, and all the time excuse themselves and lay the blame on the circumstances which brought around the trial to themselves. This has been your case. God
permitted your surroundings to exist to develop character. But you could have made your surroundings; for by resisting or enduring temptation, circumstances are controlled by the
might of the will in the name of Jesus. This is overcoming as Christ overcame. "This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

Historical Sketches of the Foreign Missions of the Seventh-day Adventists.----PG- 181

Brethren, be no longer slothful servants. Every soul must battle against inclination. Christ came not to save men in their sins, but from their sins. He has made it possible for us to possess a holy character; do not, then, be
content with defects and deformities. But while we are to seek earnestly for perfection of character, we must remember that sanctification is not the work of a moment, but of a lifetime. Said Paul, "I die daily." Day by day the work
of overcoming must go forward. Every day we are to resist temptation, and gain the victory over selfishness in all its forms. Day by day we should
cherish love and humility, and cultivate in ourselves all those excellencies of character which will please God and fit us for the blessed society of heaven. To all who are seeking to accomplish this work, the promise is very
precious, "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Why must we die each day and grow closer to God each day....?

Jesus overcame as a man in the same way we must overcome as born again believers. Since Jesus is our example, it is obvious to me that "overcoming" in the case of someone who is born again and walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man cannot involve laying aside unknown defects of character. It wasn't that way for Jesus thus it cannot be that way for born again Christians.

Laying aside our character defects happens during the process of conversion, during which time God gradually reveals our imperfections no faster than He is able to influence us to crucify them and to live without them. Once our last defect is revealed our old man (our defects) is crucified. Self is dead. We are free from the burden of moral imperfections. Then we are born again. We begin at conversion where Christ began at conception.

I really think we see much of this the same way, i am just not good at explaining it. Your third paragraph, i agree with whole heartedly except for the lst sentence. And here is where we disagree...i believe the conversion process starts with a New Birth, and you believe the process ends with the New Birth. I will keep studying it and see where i have made any mistakes....I pray the Lord will show me understanding that i will believe His teaching on this subject. What would you call a sinner's deep desire to follow Christ, when exposed to the Love of God? What is the beginning called, when one turns His life around from being a sinner to being a saint? When does God give the Wedding Garment, does it come with the invitation to the feast? These questions seem important to this topic...I need answers. Thanks

Yes, I believe the process of conversion ends the moment God influences us to crucify our last moral defect of character. And I believe the product of conversion is rebirth, at which point we receive the implanted sinless seed of the new man. And then the process of sanctification begins - which is the point at which Jesus began. This process, which does not involve sinning and repenting, will continue throughout eternity.

We may slip in and out of sin during the process of sanctification, but these failures are not part of the process of sanctification, rather they are part of the process of justification, which is something we must obtain and maintain through the gift of repentance and forgiveness. It is a mistake to confuse the two processes. Even though they are closely related (like the two oars of a row boat) they are, nonetheless, separate and distinct functions of the plan of salvation.

When do we don the robe of Christ's justifying righteousness? The very moment we begin cooperating with the influence of the Holy Spirit to lay aside our defects of character. We are saved and justified at that very moment providing we do not resist progressing at God's pace for us. So long as we do not refuse to lay aside sin when God reveals it we are saved and justified.

We are saved and justified even though we may still have unknown defects which God in His mercy has not yet revealed. We are not born again or converted at this point, but fortunately salvation has nothing to do with whether or not we have completed the process of conversion. Our salvation is based solely on what Jesus did for us on the cross.

As long as we are cooperating with God and keeping pace as He reveals our defects we are saved and justified. But if we refuse to keep pace or cling to some pet sin we are no longer saved or justified. Jesus cannot justify saving someone who refuses to allow God to purify them and influence or empower them to live without sin.

Even in this situation our salvation does not depend on what God is able to empower us to do or not to do, but rather it is the evidence that God has saved us and is saving us. Jesus is the root of our salvation, laying aside sin and maturing in the righteous attributes of God are the fruits of our slavation. Although we cannot work our way to heaven, not one of us will inherit the kingdom of God if we do not allow heaven to work its way in us.

Do you see what I mean?

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

I would be curious to hear your comments re the following text, in relatin to our topic here of Christian perfection:

"But whoso kepeth His Word, in him verily is the LOVE of God perfected; thereby we KNOW that we are IN HIM." (1 Jo.2;5).

"Yes, I believe the process of conversion ends the moment God influences us to crucify our last moral defect of character."

When does this happen in the life of a believer?

Romans
13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

John
15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

When does a person experience rebirth? The moment he consents to cooperate with the influence of God to crucify the last moral defect of character revealed by the Holy Spirit. Is that what you believe?

When does a person experience rebirth? The moment he consents to cooperate with the influence of God to crucify the last moral defect of character revealed by the Holy Spirit. Is that what you believe?
*********************
Sorry Mike, but this is a strange saying to me! Do you really mean to say that the new birth takes place when all moral defects have been crucified???!!!

[ March 30, 2002: Message edited by: adventbeliever ]

ROMANS
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

2 CORINTHIANS
5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

GALATIANS
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

PHILIPPIANS
2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

HEBREWS
13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 PETER
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

2 PETER
1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1 JOHN
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

A literal reading of these passages make it very clear that a born again believer begins at rebirth where Jesus began at birth. Do you see what I mean?

A literal reading of some of these texts, is not healthy in certain cases.

If, all moral defects have to be eliminated first, before conversion begins; what then do we need Jesus for, and what is the sense of conversion?

Show me a "converted man" that is "perfect," and I will have another story for you.

We had a SS lesson last month about perfection. We talked about Mark 4:28, 29. The question is asked, "when is the plant perfect?" The question is not "when it is ready for harvest?" Isn't it perfect at all stages, when it is only a green shoot from the ground, when it is growing, and when it begins to bloom, then forms whatever the "fruit" it is supposed to form? Today, I was cleaning dead leaves and grass from my pansy bed, and found a small yellow bud. It wasn't complete, it hadn't flowered, but it sure looked "perfect" to me.
Seems to me, it is just so with the Christian. My husband has been away from church for so many years he had forgotten almost all he knew. I consider him a "baby" in the Bible truths, and it is OK for him to be on "milk and pablum" now, just so as he doesn't stay on it forever! But...he won't!! For he is studying his SS lesson every day, reading the SOP, and going where "prayer is wont to be made." So, he is WILLING to take in food, and water, and he even shares what he knows to share at this time. So, he IS perfect in the state he is in, RIGHT? Seems so to me.

I was told a story last night, don't know if I can tell it just right, but it goes something like this:

Back in the early 1800s there was a plantation owner, who had several slaves who worked for him.
There was one older man named Zeke, who did outstanding work all the time. He could always be depended on, always did his work exactly as told, and never complained. In fact, one could often hear him singing praises to his Lord while he worked.

The owner of the plantation was curious. He watched Zeke, and he noticed that he seemed to have a peace that he would like to find. One day he asked the old man, "How can I have the peace of mind you seem to have? How can I be content in all circumstances, without anger and worry?"

Old Zeke said, "I'll tell you, but, you will have to be willing to come with me to the pig pen and pray." That sounded crazy to the owner, so he said, "No, Zeke, I can't do that." But a few days later, he was still thinking on it, so he asked zeke the same question, "How can I have the peace of mind you seem to have?" and, he got the same answer, "Sir, you will have to be willing to come to the pig pen and pray."

A few days later, many things occurred to worry and upset the plantation owner, so, he felt he just had to have some relief. He went back to Zeke, and said, "OK, I am willing, let's go." then, Zeke said, "But, Sir, I didn't say you had to go, I just said you had to be willing."

I know in my life, I often haven't "been willing,"
and it isn't until you are willing to "go to the pig pen," so to speak, if that is what it takes, that we are growing, and can continue to grow until we are ready for "harvest," but, only God knows when the grain is ready, that part is not for us to be concerned about.

Why do we need Jesus if conversion and rebirth involves first crucifying our moral defects of character? Because we cannot do it without Him! How can we be born again if self does not first die?

Is there anyone perfect at conversion and rebirth? Yes! Jesus was, and so is everyone else who crucifies self. It's just like the plant parable illustrates - perfect at each step as the plant's perfection unfolds, just like the baby Jesus who matured from childhood to manhood.

Why can't we take the Bible promises literally? just the way they read? Please explain.

Psalm 58:3
"The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth." Our birth is different, according to God's word.

Jesus never needed justification. We do.

Jesus was always perfect. But He came to demonstrate HOW to live, to prove that man, in the strength of God, could be an overcomer. The text I've quoted elsewhere, "Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work." John 14:10. The Father wants to live in us, using us as channels of His righteousness. When the bible says the law will be written on our hearts, it doesn't mean it will be written there for us to read, and then act upon. It means it will become one with our wishes, so that in keeping the law, we will be but carrying out our own desires.

The struggle is ALWAYS to get with Jesus - and stay with Him - and SUBMIT to Him to allow Him to will and do of His good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

Jesus fulfilled all righteousness, because we cannot. And He calls us perfect lest we become discouraged by our external performance. He knows the Father sees only His blood, and we are regarded as perfect from day one of our decision to walk with Him. Righteousness is imparted as we grow, and the end of growth is the bearing of fruit. If we, the branches stay attached to the Vine, we will be unable to prevent fruit forming.

How can we possibly know when our behaviour has ceased to be tainted with sin? Our hearts are deceitful. And to imply that perfection equals perfect behaviour, is to miss the most important part of the story - the heart. Only God can cleanse the heart. Growth of a plant into a fruit-bearing mature plant takes time, and is passive. Only the Gardener works. Growth of a Christian into a fruit-bearing mature man or woman of God takes time. Only the Gardener works. Unlike plants, we can uproot ourselves from the source of nourishment, and run away from the Gardener.

Perfection is the way God regards us, because of what Jesus has done for us. And the re-creation of our hearts enables us to demonstrate to the universe that Satan's charges are lies, and that the love of God working in and through us enables the complete outworking of the law. "He guides me in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake." Psalm 23:3

Philippians 4:13 "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." John 15:5 "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." That's "NOTHING".

Jesus is everything.

If perfect perfection is only imputed, then what do the following promises of Jesus mean?

ROMANS
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

2 CORINTHIANS
5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

GALATIANS
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

HEBREWS
13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 PETER
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

2 PETER
1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1 JOHN
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

When can we expect God to fulfill this promise in our life?

Protestants qualify one text with another.

"When one is FULLY emptied of self, when EVERY false god is cast out of the soul, the vacuum is supplied by the inflowing of the Spirit of Christ." How does one empty self? By continually approaching Christ. How does one cast false gods out (including the false god of self-manufactured perfection)? By continually approaching Christ. How is the vaccuum supplied? By continually approaching Christ.

"When can we expect God to fulfill this promise in our life?" Some on this board claim it has happened already. Why don't you talk to Him about it?

Just want to say I love your last few posts here. Well said.

To all

In terms of "emptying one's self," I wonder, can we even do that?

I will supply some references later; but, as far as I see it; when we have Christ in some area of our mind, or our life; since He is "bigger" than anything such as "self," then He would empty us of self, as we allow Him entrance somewhere. As we let Christ in, He Himself crowds out our "self," and we can rest in Christ, as He gives us the Victory, and because He gives us the Victory.

"He is our sanctification," and we cannot do any sanctifying; we can only obey that in which He directs us to do, or to be:

1 Corinthians 1:30 "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"

God Himself, directs our sanctification, through His Son, Jesus Christ; and this is why it is so important to understand prayer, and sanctification, as it relates to the intercession of Christ, and Christian perfection. And, as Dora represented above in the beautiful children's story illustration of the plant; a Christian is "perfect," at any stage of the growth, or sanctification process. If this was not so; then we would be evolutionists, and be guilty of saying that sin gets better; that "sanctification" incrementally improves our salvational status with Jesus.

I know there is another topic on Christ's intercession, but it does not relate to the topic of perfection, in the way I am trying to do it here.

Let us look at this much closer now, and ask:

How is a) emptying of self," and b) our sanctification, related to Christ's intercessory ministry today?

Perhaps another question will answer this:

If Christ intercedes for us now; why would we need Him, if we had to cleanse ourselves of self, before we can be converted?

His ministry both now, and when probation closes, is intimately connected to these lines of thought.

There is a context, in which our sins, ("self"), are a barrier between us and the Savior:

"ST.1892-07-11.007
"There are many in the broad way who are not fully satisfied with the path in which they walk. They long to break from the slavery of sin, and seek to make a stand against their sinful practices in their own strength. They hear the warning call to repentance. They hear that the only hope of the sinner is found in Christ. They look toward the narrow way and strait gate; but selfish pleasure, love of the world, unsanctified ambition and pride, place a barrier between them and the Saviour. They realize that all their idols must be expelled from the soul, that every sinful indulgence must be given up, all worldly encumbrances must be laid aside, in order to enter the strait gate. Jesus says, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

But, there is also a sense, where we let "repentance" become a barrier, betweemn us and the Savior:

RH.1901-09-03.008
It is a mistake to think that you must come to repentance before you can come to Jesus. Come to Christ just as you are, and contemplate His love until your hard heart is broken. "A broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." We may say that except the sinner repents of his sin, he cannot be forgiven; but while this is true, let him not put off coming to Christ until he has wrought himself up to a certain pitch of excited feeling, until he thinks his sorrow is of sufficient depth to merit forgiveness. Let the sinner come just as he is, and contemplate the love that has been bestowed upon him, all unworthy as he is; and the first thing he knows, he will realize that Christ's love has broken every barrier down, and that he exercises repentance which is not to be repented of. The sinner must go to Christ in order that he may be enabled to repent. It is the virtue that goes forth from Jesus which strengthens the purposes of the heart to turn away from sin and to cleave to that which is truth. It is Christ's virtue that makes repentance sincere and genuine. It has been stated that him whom Christ pardons He first makes penitent. Peter declares the source of repentance when he says, "Him hath God exalted with His right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."

There is only one barrier between us and Christ, that we alone can remove:

RH.1896-03-24.010
"The way has been made clear for all those who choose to hear, repent, and believe. All heaven is waiting the sinner's co-operation, and the only barrier that stands in his way is one which he alone can remove,--his own will. He must submit to the will of God, and through repentance and faith, come unto God for salvation."

So now, let us move a little further, and see how, or if our will still needs to be submitted to God/Jesus, when probation closes. We are asking the question, what is "perfection?" It seems that some say, perfection "arrives" when probation closes; after we are fully converted...but how can we be partly converted???

The Scriptures seem to say that a person is "perfect," and is "converted," only & when, an individual comes to Christ JUST AS THEY ARE.

[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: DavidTBattler ]

I edited my above post, while you were making your's.

Signed,

Your "perfect" friend,

David

Zyph wrote:
"When can we expect God to fulfill this promise in our life?" Some on this board claim it has happened already. Why don't you talk to Him about it?

Excellent suggestion. I think you would agree that we are counted perfect in a legally declared sense when we accept Jesus as our personal Saviour. So hopefully everybody on this board is already perfect.

But I suspect you are insinuating that it's ludicrous for anybody to claim Jesus' promises of perfection in the intrinsic sense of the word? That is, it is premature for anyone to believe that Jesus is fulfilling His promises in their life here and now. But what about these promises:

ROMANS
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

2 CORINTHIANS
5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

HEBREWS
13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 JOHN
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 JOHN
5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If not, then why are we so hesitant to take the promises of Jesus literally? Since their is no excuse for committing a known sin, why can't we take His promises exactly the way they read?

Also, can you name a moral imperfection which a Spirit-filled, born again, converted believer can commit unwittingly?

I feel that what needs to be done at this point, is to turn to a specific example from the Scriptures, to see what is so in this line of doctrine.

Let us take the example of Elijah, or Moses, and closely examine these, to see if they were "converted," and if they had fully "emptied" their hearts of "self."

I will let you "throw the first stone."

But, in our searching; let us remember, that utter brokeness, is obedience.

In fact, revival, is simply the outcome of obedience to the Light we have received from the Savior.

Why is it, that for many of us, this very brokeness, which includes our openess, to others, always starts out with something so costly to us?

Our walls of self esteem, pious speaking, and special holy behavior, have become very precious to us; and we cannot part with these, by ordinary means. Self, is sometimes, like the walls of Jerico, and needs to just come tumbling down; but, God in His great wisdom, knows that most of us would never give in to such a dramatic change; so He has provided the assurance that He will allow us each to "grow in grace," (2 Pet.3:18), at our own speed, and that, like Dora's plant illustration, we will be counted as "perfect," by virtue of His shed blood:

"Ye who were sometimes afar off, ARE made near, by the blood of Christ." (Eph.2:13). Not will be; but "ARE."

What part of this do you not understand Mike?

[ April 04, 2002: Message edited by: DavidTBattler ]

"Some have taken a position that those who use tobacco should be dealt with and turned out of the church. In all of our experience for many years not a case of this kind has thus been treated by us. We have borne with them and labored with and prayed with them for years [NOTE: FOR YEARS!!!], and if after a time they did not reform, they became lax in other things and causes of a grievous character occurred which required an action on the part of the church, but then the responsibility was not assumed by merely the resident elder, the deacon, or any church member, but the church waited in patience for help, for wise counselors, and then moved with the greatest caution. These hasty movements in such cases tend to ruin a church. It shows a self-sufficient, self-important, bigoted spirit, which if indulged will ruin any church." . . . {9MR 195.2} Ellen White seemed to have no problem with taking time to overcome moral sins which directly destroy the temple of the Holy Spirit. Why do you have a problem with the time factor?

"Jesus never had to be born again. His first birth was just fine. He was born perfect.
Psalm 58:3 "The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth." Our birth is different, according to God's word.
Jesus never needed justification. We do. "When can we expect God to fulfill this promise in our life?" Some on this board claim it has happened already. Why don't you talk to Him about it?"

I agree that our first birth is imperfect. That's why Jesus said we must be born again. When we are born again are we in the same predictament, that is, imperfect and sinful? If so, in what way is rebirth any different than our first birth? I believe the following passages teach that rebirth is the same as Jesus' first birth:

JOHN
1:23 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

JOHN
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

1 PETER
1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 JOHN
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

True, Jesus' first birth was just fine, it was perfect and He did not need justification to atone for sin. This is also true of born again believers. It's not true of their past life of sin. The old man had to be crucified, and justification accommodates sins confessed and forsaken and pardoned. But the new man does not require justification. Why? Because he does not sin. Note the following passages:

MATTHEW
5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

NOTE: The perfection of God, which is ours if we are born again, does not require justification.

ROMANS
6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

GALATIANS
2:20 I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

GALATIANS
5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

EPHESIANS
4:22-24 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

COLOSIANS
3:8-10 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

2 PETER
1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1 JOHN
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

NOTE: the imparted righteousness of the new man does not require justification. Justification accommodates the old man. Justification is necessary until the record and memory of our specific sins is blotted out. Justification is also needed if, after we are born again, we should resurrect and revert back to the mind of the old man and sin. We sin in the mind of the old man, not in the mind of the new man. So long as we walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man we do not and cannot sin.

[ April 04, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

RE: Eph 2:13 I believe we must make a distinction between being saved and being born again. We are saved by the blood of the Lamb. Period. We are not saved because we are born again, or because we cease from sin. Being born again and ceasing from sin are just some of the many fruits of our salvation.

John wrote to encourage us to cease from sin, but he added "if" (not when) we do sin, Jesus stands ready to forgive us. He made it clear that it is wrong to sin, and that those who do are outside the truth, and if they claim to be Christians while sinning they are liars.

1 JOHN
2:1-5 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

Notice also that perfection has to do with the love of God. The "love of God" is perfected in us as we grow in grace. It has nothing to do with sin. It does not mean that we become perfect by becoming less and less sinful. It does not mean that we become perfect as we gradually out grow our defective traits of character. Love is the fulfilling of the law - not breaking it until God decides to reveal our imperfections. Love becomes perfect as we cooperate with God and mature in the fruits of the Spirit. Perfection has to do with love - not sin.

Also, the plant illustration does not advocate that growth in grace involves sinning and repenting. As the plant matures it reveals it's inherent perfection. It does not lay aside sin as it grows and matures. The "incorruptible seed" (1 Peter 1:23) is not defective or sinful. It is "created after God in righteousness and true holiness." Eph 4:24. Jesus is the best example of the plant parable. We imitate His example so long as we stay connected to Him and walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man.

[ April 04, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

According to Ellen White - "The completeness of Christian character is attained when the impulse to help and bless others springs constantly from within." AA 551. Nothing is said about laying aside sin. The purpose of grace is to empower born again believers to mature in the fruits of the Spirit - not to lay aside sin.

HEBREWS
12:28 Let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear."

ROMANS
5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

6:1,2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

AMAZING GRACE, PAGE 230
Perfection of character is based upon that which Christ is to us. If we have constant dependence on the merits of our Saviour, and walk in His footsteps, we shall be like Him, pure and undefiled. {AG 230.3}

Our Saviour does not require impossibilities of any soul. He expects nothing of His disciples that He is not willing to give them grace and strength to perform. He would not call upon them to be perfect if He had not at His command every perfection of grace to bestow on the ones upon whom He would confer so high and holy a privilege. . . . {AG 230.4}

Our work is to strive to attain in our sphere of action the perfection that Christ in His life on the earth attained in every phase of character. He is our example. In all things we are to strive to honor God in character. . . . We are to be wholly dependent on the power that He has promised to give us. {AG 230.5}

Jesus revealed no qualities, and exercised no powers, that men may not have through faith in Him. His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was. {AG 230.6}

[ April 04, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

Why did Mrs White say the things I quoted? Can you give me a context that changes the obvious meaning?

As I read this quote I don't find where she is advocating that we should take our time overcoming moral sin. I see her saying that the church family should exercize the greatest caution when handling members who are involved in open sin. Neither do I think she is saying that such a member is born again. This quote cannot be used to prove that it takes time to overcome known sin.

Concerning the "time factor" of overcoming known moral defects of character, I believe Paul said it best when he wrote - God will not allow us to be tempted above His ability to empower us to resist it unto His honor and glory. 1 Cor 10:13. We do not fall prey to known sin because the power is lacking to resist it. Instead, we commit a known sin simply because we fail to choose to cooperate with the heavenly agencies God employs for our success. Once God convicts of sin it is within our resources to lay it aside forever.

Maranatha, page 225, paragraph 4
The strongest temptation is no excuse for sin. However great the pressure brought to bear upon the soul, transgression is our own act. It is not in the power of earth or hell to compel any one to sin. The will must consent, the heart must yield, or passion cannot overbear reason, nor iniquity triumph over righteousness.

The Desire of Ages, page 664, paragraph 4
Jesus revealed no qualities, and exercised no powers, that men may not have through faith in Him. His perfect humanity is that which all His followers may possess, if they will be in subjection to God as He was.

S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7A, page 450
The weight of the sins of the world was pressing His soul, and His countenance expressed unutterable sorrow, a depth of anguish that fallen man had never realized . He felt the overwhelming tide of woe that deluged the world. He realized the strength of indulged appetite and of unholy passion that controlled the world.

S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 7A, page 450
Christ alone had experience in all the sorrows and temptations that befall human beings . Never another of woman born was so fiercely beset by temptation; never another bore so heavy a burden of the world's sin and pain. Never was there another whose sympathies were so broad or so tender. A sharer in all the experiences of humanity, He could feel not only for, but with, every burdened and tempted and struggling one.

Counsels on Health, page 440
Those who put their trust in Christ are not to be enslaved by any hereditary or cultivated habit or tendency. Instead of being held in bondage to the lower nature, they are to rule every appetite and passion. God has not left us to battle with evil in our own finite strength. Whatever may be our inherited or cultivated tendencies to wrong, we can overcome through the power that He is ready to impart. . . .

Through the right exercise of the will an entire change may be made in the life. By yielding up the will to Christ, we ally ourselves with divine power. We receive strength from above to hold us steadfast. A pure and noble life, a life of victory over appetite and lust, is possible to everyone who will unite his weak, wavering human will to the omnipotent, unwavering will of God.

Testimonies for the Church Volume Five, page 510
My brother, your righteousness will not be sufficient. You must put on the robe of Christ's righteousness. You must be like Christ. Consider the severe test that Christ endured in the wilderness of temptation on the point of appetite. He was emaciated by that long abstinence on your account and on mine; He fought and conquered Satan, that He might give us vantage ground, bringing us divine strength to conquer appetite and every unholy passion.

Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, April 24, 1900
We must learn of Christ. We must know what he is to those he has ransomed. We must realize that through belief in him it is our privilege to be partakers of the divine nature, and so escape the corruption that is in the world through lust. Then we are cleansed from all sin, all defects of character. We need not retain one sinful propensity. Christ is the sin-bearer; John pointed the people to him, saying, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

Maranatha, page 224, paragraph 4
Everyone who by faith obeys God's commandments, will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression.

Faith and Works, page 71, paragraph 1
Christ took upon Himself humanity for us. He clothed His divinity, and divinity and humanity were combined. He showed that that law which Satan declared could not be kept, could be kept. Christ took humanity to stand here in our world, to show that Satan had lied. He took humanity upon Himself to demonstrate that with divinity and humanity combined, man could keep the law of Jehovah. Separate humanity from divinity, and you can try to work out your own righteousness from now till Christ comes, and it will be nothing but a failure.

The Ministry of Healing, page 180, paragraph 5
The Saviour took upon Himself the infirmities of humanity and lived a sinless life, that men might have no fear that because of the weakness of human nature they could not overcome. Christ came to make us "partakers of the divine nature," and His life declares that humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin.

Manuscript Releases Volume Eight, page 291, paragraph 5
The Son of God came to our world in human form to show man that divinity and humanity combined does not commit sin. He is our Pattern. Through Him we may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The Southern Review, October 25, 1898, paragraph 2
But His disciples see in Him the Way, the Truth, and the Life. And they shall have His abiding presence. They shall have an experimental knowledge of the only true God and of Jesus Christ whom He hath sent. To them He says: You will no more say, I cannot comprehend. No longer shall you see through a glass darkly; you shall comprehend with all saints what is the length and depth and breadth and height of the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge. He who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. The honor of God, the honor of Jesus Christ, is involved in the perfection of your character. Your work is to co-operate with Christ, that you may be complete in Him. In being united to Him by faith, believing and receiving Him, you become a part of Himself. Your character is His glory revealed in you. And when you shall appear in His presence, you will find the benediction awaiting you, "Well done, good and faithful servant, thou hast been faithful over a few things: I will make thee ruler over many things; enter thou into the joy of thy Lord."

Maranatha, page 225, paragraph 4
The strongest temptation is no excuse for sin. However great the pressure brought to bear upon the soul, transgression is our own act. It is not in the power of earth or hell to compel any one to sin. The will must consent, the heart must yield, or passion cannot overbear reason, nor iniquity triumph over righteousness.

Messages to Young People, page 136, paragraph 3
The tempter's agency is not to be accounted an excuse for one wrong act. Satan is jubilant when he hears the professed followers of Christ making excuses for their deformity of character. It is these excuses that lead to sin. There is no excuse for sinning. A holy temper, a Christlike life, is accessible by every repenting, believing child of God.-- "Desire of Ages," p. 311 .

The Faith I Live By, page 66, paragraph 3
Nothing is more plainly taught in Scripture than that God was in no wise responsible for the entrance of sin; that there was no arbitrary withdrawal of divine grace, no deficiency in the divine government, that gave occasion for the uprising of rebellion. Sin is an intruder, for whose presence no reason can be given. It is mysterious, unaccountable; to excuse it, is to defend it. Could excuse for it be found, or cause shown for its existence,it would cease to be sin.

The Great Controversy, page 503, paragraph 2
In the final execution of the judgment it will be seen that no cause for sin exists. When the Judge of all the earth shall demand of Satan, "Why hast thou rebelled against Me, and robbed Me of the subjects of My kingdom?" the originator of evil can render no excuse. Every mouth will be stopped, and all the hosts of rebellion will be speechless.

Reflecting Christ, page 291, paragraph 4
As the sacrifice in our behalf was complete, so our restoration from the defilement of sin is to be complete. There is no act of wickedness that the law will excuse; there is no unrighteousness that will escape its condemnation. The life of Christ was a perfect fulfillment of every precept of the law. He said, "I have kept my Father's commandments" (John 15:10). His life is our standard of obedience and service.

The Signs of the Times, June 5, 1884, paragraph 12
There is no excuse for continuing in sin. No man is obliged to do evil, and be lost. Every one who perishes destroys his own soul. The provisions of grace are ample. Jesus is pleading in our behalf, and there is mercy for even the most guilty and sinful. Let us take hold of the strength of Jesus. He loves us with a love that is inexpressible; let us respond to that love.

The Watchman, February 4, 1908, paragraph 6
But by faith and prayer all may meet the requirements of the gospel. No man can be forced to transgress God's holy law. Temptation, however strong, is no excuse for sin; for divine grace is sufficient for us, and "the Lord's eyes are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers."

Mar 91
"Today Satan presents the same temptations that he presented to Christ, offering us the kingdoms of the world in return for our allegiance. But upon him who looks to Jesus as the author and finisher of his faith, Satan's temptations have no power. He cannot cause to sin the one who will accept by faith the virtues of Him who was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin.

"The expulsion of sin is the act of the soul itself. True, we have no power to free ourselves from Satan's control; but when we desire to be set free from sin, and in our great need cry out for a power out of and above ourselves, the powers of the soul are imbued with the divine energy of the Holy Spirit, and they obey the dictates of the will in fulfilling the will of God."