I have repeatedly pointed to Jesus as an example of a converted, born again believer. 1 Peter 2:21,22. Although He began perfect, He also became perfect. From this we must conclude that born again, converted Christians begin perfect and must also become perfect.

We begin at conversion where Christ began at conception. This implies that our moral imperfections are laid aside before we are born again, and that the perfection we experience after we begin walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man is like that which Jesus demonstrated as He progressed from childhood to manhood.

During this discussion can we please answer the question - In what way is Jesus our example?

He is our example in that He lived to do the will of the Father

Hoodie, welcome to the MSDAOL forum. I hope you enjoy studying with the members of this forum. I look forward to your participation.

Yes, Jesus lived to do the will of God, and in this way He is our example. But would you also agree that He is our example in that He always did the will of God? And if so, what does it imply concerning us?

Mike: Are we not to come at the foot of the cross as we are, laden with sins, helpless and dependent? As we trust in the merits of Christ's blood and allow His word to have free course in us, we are begotten anew. The law proceeding out of His mouth imparts a new life in Christ Jesus.

The Bible says, "Of His own will begat He us, by the word of truth." James 1:18. The Bible says, "Thy law is the truth." Ps.119:142. "His will is expressed in the precepts of His holy law." See M.B.109. "Born, not of the will of man or of the will of the flesh, but of God." John 1:13. "Born again, not with corruptible seed, but incorruptible, by the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:23.

"Sin can be resisted and overcome only through the mighty Agency of the Third Person of the Godhead who comes with no modified energy but in the fullness of divine power... It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Christ has given His Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil and to impress His character upon us." D.A.671.

And how do we receive the Spirit? By faith, of course. And "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God." Rom.10:17. God's Spirit and life are in His words. John 6:63.

The Psalmist prayed: "Quicken Thou me according unto Thy word." Ps.119:25,50. His law, proceeding out of His mouth, is a quickening Spirit! Ps.119:93.

[ March 29, 2002: Message edited by: adventbeliever ]

Mike:

HM.1891-07-01.010: The Father has manifested his love in giving to the world his only begotten Son, that all who believe in him should not perish, but have eternal life. In view of this infinite sacrifice to bless men, to make them happy, what self-denial and self-sacrifice are we willing to make as laborers together with God in the great plan of redemption? If the Lord bows his ear to hear your cry, to relieve you in trial, to comfort you in bereavement, to bind up your wounds, to sustain you in all your heart-trying tribulations, you know it is because he loves you. With such an example before you, how can you, as Christians, be heartless, selfish, unsympathetic? We have the pledge that while sin and want and misery shall exist, God, who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, will with him freely give us all things,--all things essential to his glory and our good. Then let us examine ourselves closely in the light of the revealed word of God, to see whether we are in the love of God, whether we are working for others as Christ has worked for us.

[ March 30, 2002: Message edited by: DavidTBattler ]

David, it is too large text. It is diffucult to read it. Here is "the normal text":

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HM.1891-07-01.010: The Father has manifested his love in giving to the world his only begotten Son, that all who believe in him should not perish, but have eternal life. In view of this infinite sacrifice to bless men, to make them happy, what self-denial and self-sacrifice are we willing to make as laborers together with God in the great plan of redemption? If the Lord bows his ear to hear your cry, to relieve you in trial, to comfort you in bereavement, to bind up your wounds, to sustain you in all your heart-trying tribulations, you know it is because he loves you. With such an example before you, how can you, as Christians, be heartless, selfish, unsympathetic? We have the pledge that while sin and want and misery shall exist, God, who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, will with him freely give us all things,--all things essential to his glory and our good. Then let us examine ourselves closely in the light of the revealed word of God, to see whether we are in the love of God, whether we are working for others as Christ has worked for us.

Thanks Aksel

I guess it depends on how much time someone has to sit and read it.

I sure had fun doing it though. I sped the scroll speed up a bit to make it easier.

Jesus magnified the law and made it honorable! In that He is our example! right? Isaiah 42:21.

As you have said, Mike, Jesus came to do God's will, right? And "The will of God is expressed in the precepts of His holy law." M.B.109. He said, "O how I love to do Thy will! and Thy law is within my heart." Ps.40:8.

"Hearken unto Me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is My law." Isa.51:7.

"All Thy commandments are righteousness." Ps.119:172.

[ March 30, 2002: Message edited by: adventbeliever ]

It's important, when studying Jesus as our Example, to remember that He is also and always our Substitute. But all too often when a study is engaged to discern Jesus as our Example, people hurry up and revert back to the fact that Jesus is also and always our Substitute - thus it is usually very difficult to study Jesus as our Example.

It is my hope and prayer that we can study Jesus as our Example without forgetting the fact that is He is also and always our Substitute. Just because a study tries to discern Jesus as our Example, it is unfair to assume that those studying the example of Jesus have forgotten that He is our Substitute and are therefore guilty of attempting to set Jesus aside in order to work their way to heaven.

So please, can we, as mature students, study Jesus as our Example without forgetting that He is also and always our Substitute? Can we examine to what degree He is our Example?

1. The question is - Is Jesus our Example before or after self is crucified? before or after we are converted and born again?

2. If we can agree that Jesus is an example of born again believers, and if we can agree that Jesus began perfect, and if we can agree that Jesus became perfect as He matured from childhood to manhood - can we also agree that born again believers also begin perfect and become perfect as they mature in the fruit of the Spirit?

3. If Jesus really and truly is an example of born again believers, then how can we assume that born again believers begin morally imperfect and then gradually become morally perfect over the course of a lifetime? It wasn't that way for Jesus, so how can it be that way for us?

4. If Jesus is an example of a born again believer then it stands to reason that self must first be completely crucified before we can experience the miracle of rebirth. Rom 6:6 and Gal 2:20. Self must die before we can be born again anew. 2 Cor 5:17.

5. Otherwise, how can we use the biblical expression "born again" if in reality we are still possessed of unholy traits of character? How can Jesus be our example if we are still burdened with unconquered and/or unknown defects of character?

And please, do not confuse salvation with conversion. We are saved because Jesus is our Substitute, not because He is also and always our Example. We are saved not because we cooperate with the influence of the Holy Spirit to completely crucify our old man defects of character, rather we are saved because we accept Jesus as our personal Saviour. Conversion and rebirth is the fruit of our salvation in Jesus Christ.