Salvation works! and it works wonderfully in the lives of those who trust Jesus completely. We cannot work our way to heaven, but we can let heaven work its way in us! But we can't do it alone, and neither can God do it alone for us - we must cooperate with the Holy Spirit. Thank you Jesus.

"The work of gaining salvation is one of copartnership, a joint operation. There is to be co-operation between God and the repentant sinner. This is necessary for the formation of right principles in the character. Man is to make earnest efforts to overcome that which hinders him from attaining to perfection. But he is wholly dependent upon God for success. Human effort of itself is not sufficient. Without the aid of divine power it avails nothing. God works and man works. Resistance of temptation must come from man, who must draw his power from God. On the one side there is infinite wisdom, compassion, and power; on the other, weakness, sinfulness, absolute helplessness. {AA 482.2}

"God wishes us to have the mastery over ourselves. But He cannot help us without our consent and co-operation. The divine Spirit works through the powers and faculties given to man. Of ourselves, we are not able to bring the purposes and desires and inclinations into harmony with the will of God; but if we are "willing to be made willing," the Saviour will accomplish this for us, "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ." 2 Corinthians 10:5. {AA 482.3}

Well said, and excellent quotes. Thank you, Mike.

Stan

Topic: When does God implant the governing principle of love in our hearts?

Mike Lowe asked:

What happens if God implants the principle of love in our soul? And when does He do it? Is it gradual or instantaneous?

When does God renew our hearts? When does the implanted principle of love modify our character, govern our impulses, control our passions, subdue our enmity, and ennoble our affections?

He answered it himself:

Cheri, thank you and amen! God is altogether powerful, and when we submit to Him as did Jesus our life will be a life of continual obedience and righteousness. Thank you Jesus! And it's all possible the instant our old man habits of sin are dead and buried and God implants within us the great principle of love.

Salvation works! and it works wonderfully in the lives of those who trust Jesus completely. We cannot work our way to heaven, but we can let heaven work its way in us! But we can't do it alone, and neither can God do it alone for us - we must cooperate with the Holy Spirit. Thank you Jesus.

Unquote.

Mike believes in something that would never happen!

It is not my own idea or my own judgment but it is what the Gospel of Christ said.

Not because what he said is wrong, it is indeed very true, only it could not be applied to us, fallen humanity that had lost the glory of God. Christ obeyed the Law perfectly and fulfilled it righteous demands and got the Law’s justification because he is God clothed in sinful flesh.

We may have the Spirit in us, we may have a new heart filled with love implanted by God, we may died to sin, we may have all the power of heaven but that doesn’t made us become God. Even Adam that was created after the likeness of God did sin, how much more us that were born after the likeness of Adam?

Can we live in a continual obedience our whole life to the Law? Can we submit our will to God and emptying our selves for our whole life? Can the “self” in us died all the time in our life? Can we live a perfect righteous life our whole life without sinning, either against the letter of the Law or the intent of the Law? If we can do that, the Law has no other choice but to justify us.

And that what is wrong with this idea! The Gospel of Christ said that NO ONE WOULD BE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW because NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD BY OBSERVING THE LAW. Not in the time past (before the cross) and never in the future!

What does this mean? It means that no man can keep and obey the Law of God and fulfils it righteous demands perfectly and continuously in his whole life.

The fault doesn’t lie on God or his Spirit, but the fault lay in us.

We couldn’t submit our self completely without breaking it; we couldn’t live a perfect righteous sinless live our whole life without breaking the Law even once. There is no guarantee that we may live a perfect righteous and sinless life in our whole life and indeed it would never happen. We may sin unwillingly, we may sin unknowingly; we may do whatever is wrong and against the Law without even realizing it. And that is enough to get lost and died for the Law demands perfect obedience for a perfect righteousness without sinning even once, willingly or unwillingly, knowingly or unknowingly, realizing it or not. Didn’t Christ come and die to redeem those who were condemn by the Law? (Galatians 4:4,5). He died and redeemed those who were under the Law for the sin they were born with and abolished the death they didn’t deserve. But many who were redeemed from the condemnation of the Law die again, because what was redeemed were not the sins they committed in their whole life but the sin they were born with, since this sin is not God creation but he is responsible for that because he created us. The Gospel of Christ never said that he came and died to redeem those who come under the Law (you for example), but he came and died to redeem those who were under the Law. Who were under the Law when he came and died at the cross? Israel from Moses till the cross.

Therefore, God gave men another way to be righteous before him. It is not the way of the Law through obedience, but the way of the Spirit through faith. He gave us his righteousness that is not achieved through our effort by keeping and obeying the Decalogue but a righteousness that is worked out by the Spirit in those who put their faith in Christ. Therefore, we are justified by faith in Christ and not by the Law.

If you come under the Law’s jurisdiction (as what you believe), if you believe you may achieve a perfect righteousness sinless life through your obedience to the Law; it is the Law that would justify you and not God who would justify men by their faith in Christ without the deeds of the Law.

So, dear Mike!

Because of your view and believe, you can’t see the truth of the Gospel of Christ. It is time for a change of view for it is not too late yet. You stick to an idea that is so idealistic even though God wish it from us, but would never happen because of the weakness of our sinful flesh (Romans 8:3). Therefore, righteousness that fulfils the Law demands is not obtained through obedience to the Law by becoming under it’s jurisdiction but by living according to the Spirit with faith in Christ (Romans 8:4).

So, we may rely on God grace that would remember our sins no more and receive his justification for our faith in Christ. “By grace are you saved through faith; and that not of your self; it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast” – Ephesians 2:8,9.

Remember! All who sin under the Law would be judge by the Law and looking from the fact that no Law keeper is righteous before God by observing the Law and that the Law would justify no one, you must face the Law’s condemnation alone because you didn’t believe the Gospel of Christ. You didn’t believe that those who were under the Law are not under grace but under dominion of sin; You didn’t believe that Christ believers would be justified by faith without the deeds of the Law; you didn’t believe that no man could live in a continual obedience and righteousness that is demanded by the Law and at last you didn’t believe that the Law would condemn those who were found guilty.

I think, you believe in a gospel of man (woman) rather than in the Gospel of Christ. Forgive me for stating that but it is true (in my view).

In His love

James S.

James, if the gospel of Christ cannot empower born again believers to live without sinning then what is the gospel of Christ? We can live without sinning in the New Earth thus it must begin now. Otherwise, why hasn't Jesus returned yet?

Matthew
1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Romans
6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Galatians
2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Philippians
2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Hebrews
13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Peter
1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

1 Peter
2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord [is] gracious.
2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

1 Peter
4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

2 Peter
1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

1 John
3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Jude
1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and for ever. Amen.

Revelation
14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

James, in the past you have ignored or overlooked the scriptures I have quoted to support the truth as it is in Jesus. So please, take the time to explain how each one of the texts I have quoted above prove that born again believers are saved with their sins, rather than from them. Thank you.

Mike, I know you asked James these questions, so I will not interfere with that. But I would like to ask you this question:

Since Jesus has paid the cost for our sins, and once we are believers we are no longer under condemnation of the law, what does our attempts –even if they are directed by the holy spirit- add to what Jesus has already done?

This issue is that we will not be perfect until we are changed at Jesus coming. Now this does not mean the holy spirit will not continue to bring us closer to God’s will, because He will and does. However, the point is that that is not our focus. It is not a believers focus to keep the law better. It’s not even the holy spirit’s focus leading us.

As Jesus and the gospel make clear, our focus is to love and minister to our fellow man, period! If we do this we will naturally become closer to God’s path, but that is a natural automatic thing, never the focus. ANDDDDDD, we do not need to reach any particular level of perfection as the thief on the cross and the parable of the vineyard clearly demonstrate.

So once we are saved we are in the vineyard no matter if we just go there or if we have been there all day, we all get the same reward. This proves that works have no relation to the reward.

We are rewarded according to our works. However, the gift of salvation is free. I learned that much from you. And none of the scriptures you quoted disagree with it. Neither do they contradict the quotes I posted above. The Holy Spirit empowers born again believers to live without sinning and to mature in the fruits of the Spirit. All of which involves living in harmony with the law - not in order to be saved but because we are saved.

Jesus not only came to pardon our sins but to set us free from committing sin. Jesus did not live and die the perfect life and death so that we can continue to live a life sin. He was manifested to take away our sins so that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us.

Matthew
1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Romans
8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 John
3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Galatians
2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.