The reason why we always need a Saviour is not because He cannot empower us to cease sinning but because only He can empower us to cease sinning and to mature in the fruits of Spirit. Thank you Jesus!

I agree with you that after we are born again and are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man we are no longer under the condemnation of the law. Why? Because the Holy Spirit is seated upon the throne of our soul temples empowering us from within to use our faculties of mind and body to imitate the sinless example of Jesus. The law cannot condemn us because we are no longer breaking the law. The law only condemns law breakers.

The idea that God's promises of perfection apply only to our legal standing rather than describing our new life free from sinning and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit ignores the obvious meaning of the promises. True, we are legally perfect in the justified sense. But Jesus cannot legally declare someone perfect or sinless who is willingly indulging sinful practices. And there is no excuse for sinning.

Once we're born again God promises that He will not allow Satan to tempt us beyond His ability to empower us to recognize and resist it unto His honor and glory. 1 Cor 10:13. Therefore, when Jesus promises - "Go and sin no more" (John 5:14 and 8:11) - He is able to perform that which He promises because we are willing and He is definitely able. "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." Phil 1:6. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." Phil 2:13.

The many texts where the phrase "under the law" is used I interpret to mean born again believers are not under the condemnation of the law. Why not? Because we are dead to sin and awake to righteousness. Consequently, we are empowered by the indwelling Spirit of God to live in harmony with the law. Thus, we are no longer law breakers.

However, if we should slip and fall back into sin we are not cast off forever. 1 John 2:1,2. The Holy Spirit immediately begins impressing us to receive the gift of repentance, which empowers us to confess and forsake our sin and gives God the legal right to pardon us and to restore the relationship our sin severed, to restore us back to the mind of the new man.

Romans
3:26 To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

But if as you affirm that the sins we commit after we accept Jesus as our personal Saviour are not counted as sin then why does the Holy Spirit labour so hard to impress us to receive the gift of repentance? Why bother repent if indeed we have not technically sinned?

1 John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Mike Lowe.

You said:
James, if the gospel of Christ cannot empower born again believers to live without sinning then what is the gospel of Christ? We can live without sinning in the New Earth thus it must begin now. Otherwise, why hasn't Jesus returned yet?
Unquote.

Firstly, I believe that the Gospel of Christ is not talking about a believer can live a sinless perfect life or not but it says that a believer shall have the righteous claims of the Law (love that seeks no self) only when he walks after the Spirit.

In the Gospel of Christ how to live a sinless perfect life is not an issue since God knew that no man could perform it, the issue is how we might maintain the salvation Christ had made for us and gave to us. The issue to live a perfect sinless life through obedience to the Law has caused many confusions and led people astray from faith to depend on their own effort, for keeping and obeying the Law have the trait of works.

Therefore it is really not an issue in the Gospel of Christ.

Of course Paul gives us so many advices to live a holy and righteous life for only the righteous may enter heaven, but the issue is not how we perform it but how we could have it. The issue is not on our effort or works but on the grace and mercy of God.

Surely we can’t commit a sin in the New Earth even though we have the knowledge of good and evil and a free will choice, but those who enter heaven have the knowledge of the consequences of sin and experienced the love of God. I think they would not make the same mistake as Adam did in Eden and if they did, God has the legal right to immediately punish them with dead for he had proven his love and judgment in the past.

Christ hasn’t returned yet since he must wait till the Gospel is preach and taught to every man on earth till the last person that is able to comprehend and believe the Gospel. He has a responsibility and task to declare his Gospel to the last person on earth, after that he might come to pick up the saints.

In His love

James S.

Mike.

Now to comment on your text and verses:

Matthew 1:21 – That is a fact, Christ saved us from sin and it consequences. But it is not how we do that but how God did it for us.

Matthew 5:48 – The same was said: Keep my laws and commandment, the man who did it will live by them.” But no one could keep it that made Christ came to earth to redeem them and save them from the death.

Romans 6:7 – If the “I” in you were really dead for you had succeeded in emptying yourself completely; you would be freed from sin because this sin is your self love nature that is against God’s nature, and when you have God’s love replacing your self-love nature, the demands of the Law is fulfilled in you. The question is, is it possible and might become true through your own effort? No! Therefore, we should count ourselves dead to sin and not to submit our self again to the lust of the flesh (Romans 6:11-13), not to live in sin, but to submit our self to God and let him take care of us. He would led us by His Spirit and write his Law’s principle – love that seeks no self – in our hearts.

Galatians 2:20 – Paul said that his old “self” is crucified with Christ but nevertheless he lived, only not “self” that lives in him but Christ through the Spirit that led his life in the flesh through faith.

Galatians 5:16 – By walking in the Spirit of God, a believer might defeat the lust of the flesh that rooted to the carnal mind. He may achieve this not because of his effort but because the Spirit controls his mind for he has submitted his will to the Spirit desire.

Philippians 2:13 – It gives an unmistakable message that to be righteous is not on our desire – i.e. keeping and obeying the Law – but on what the Spirit desire and do it for us.

Hebrews 13:20,21 – A repetition of the message in Philippians 2:13. God made us perfect to do his will by gradually recreating in us his love in our heart to replace the love for self, which is done by the Spirit of Christ. This includes our desire to remain in him by faith and defeat the lust of the flesh that we could not do alone without the Spirit help. In Romans 7:14-23, Paul told us that we have the desire to do good since we have the knowledge of what is good and evil but only we could not perform it, only by a walk after the Spirit, this good desire might be performed but not we have done it but the Spirit through us.

1 Peter 1:15,16 – That is a requirement but the issue is not how you would do that but how you might have it.

1 Peter 2:1-3 – It is required from us that we might perform through the Spirit who did the willing and the doing of God. Just like a newborn babe that could not drink the milk of her mother breast unless it is put in her mouth. As it is just an illustration, the difference lay on the fact that the babe suck and drink the milk from her mothers breast all alone, but God through the Spirit do the good desires in you on his own using your body. It is “the willing and the doing of God”, what is need from you is just to emptying your self completely until there is no longer “I” or “self”. But you also could not do that, you only have the desire but God did it for you. Only, at least you must have this desire because if you exercise your own desire, the Spirit can not carry out his will, let say doing it.

1 Peter 2:21,22 – Christ has left an example of how he might perform a sinless perfect life that we must follow. Not through obedience to the Law because as a Jew he was under the Law, but the other example, to live with faith and emptying our self completely.

1 Peter 4:1,2 – Only when we have the mind of Christ that resides in us through the Spirit, we would cease from sin. But when our self took over, we would again commit a sin. And that is the fight in the flesh, the Spirit desires against what the flesh desires that rooted to our carnal mind, which is the love for self. Therefore, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law (love that seeks no self), but in the flesh a slave to the law of sin (self-love). Only when we walk after the Spirit we would not gratify the lust of the flesh (Galatians 5:16) but since the Spirit and our “self” is in a war to control our body, we might do the things we do not want to do, which means we follow what “self” desires.

2 Peter 1:3-11 – Through the Spirit God gave us everything we need to carry out in us a righteous life after we have the knowledge of Him and his great promises. This includes a desire and to carry it out, because he could not rely on us to do that, since it would be under our judgment to do what he desire. When “I” is still alive, there is no way to perform a ‘good deed” before God, for what is good before God is love that has no self in it, which is fruit of the Spirit; the willing and the doing of God through us. Having this, we are partakers of the Divine nature and escape the corruption of the world through lust.

To perform a complete knowledge of the desires of the Devine nature that dwelled in us, we must give him the chance to add every steps of perfection to the maturity of the fruits of the Spirit. That means a continual delivery of our will to the Spirit, and he would do the rest as listed. We knew this because it was aroused in our mind by the Spirit but some times our will to submit to the desire of the Spirit is not strong enough and “self” take over. This prolonged the maturity of the fruits of the Spirit. But who is lead by the Spirit, is not under the Law (jurisdiction, judgment and condemnation) – Galatians 5:18.

Listed at the last of the Spirit’s desires, is charity or love to our fellowmen, which is the ultimate result of a life after the Spirit with faith in Christ (which indicates that the love of God doesn’t instantaneous replace our love for self at the New Birth, but gradually, step by step) When you have this and bound in this, you have come to the complete knowledge of our savior Jesus Christ and may say: “Life eternal is to know God.” Those who lacked this, were blind of the knowledge of God, therefore make your calling and election sure, for if you do these things according to the Spirit desires, you would never fall and the gate of heaven is wide open for you to enter the place Christ had prepared and save for you.

1 John 3:5-10 – In Christ there is no sin and who abides in him would not continue in sin. Who is born of God could not go on sinning for His Seed remained in him. I believe that is the way to read as according to the NIV translation that conforms to 1 John 1:8,10.

We may also read it the way is it written as in KJV, which means that those who abide in Christ and born of God could not and would not commit a sin. But the fact every body did sin as according to 1 John 1:8,10, so, is it a contradiction? No, because the problem is not in God but in us. We could not abide in Christ forever of our whole life since we were growing into maturity of the Spirit with falls and down, which is a process of sanctification done by the Spirit. Only Christ never sinned in his whole life because he is God clothed in sinful flesh, unlike us, we have the Spirit in us though faith, we have our own will and desire, our own mind and character.

Who is born of God could not sin because his Seed (the Spirit) remained in him, which justified Jesus as the Son of God, since he was the only Person on earth that was born of God in reality and none of us.

We may know the children of God by their deeds of love that seeks no self towards their fellowmen, but of the devil were those who love themselves and commits all unrighteousness.

Jude 1:24,25 – It is indeed very true! As long as you remained in Him by faith and walks after the Spirit, for those who draw back from faith, God has no pleasure in him (Hebrews 10:38).

Revelation 14:5 – A very special group, who were redeemed and purchased as the first fruit to God and the Lamb. They have not spoiled their faith with the teachings and doctrines of the fallen church and the false prophet. They stick to their faith in Christ as taught in His Gospel. They spoke no false doctrines and taught no lies, they were blameless in their righteousness although without the deeds of the Law.

Revelation 14:12 – Clearly and unmistakable to distinguish between those who were saints and who were not. The mark of the saints: Those who kept the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Who are they? Those saints who were not under the Law from the era before the Law entered (before Moses) i.e. Adam, Abel, Noah, Enoch, Abraham etc; those saints who were under the Law since Moses till the cross, i.e. Moses, Job, Daniel, Solomon, Isaiah, and those saints after the cross who were not under the Law, those who lived with faith in Christ and walks after the Spirit.

That is the best I could give you since my lack of English language.

In His love

James

Mike.

You said:
James, in the past you have ignored or overlooked the scriptures I have quoted to support the truth as it is in Jesus. So please, take the time to explain how each one of the texts I have quoted above prove that born again believers are saved with their sins, rather than from them. Thank you.
Unquote.

You may draw your own conclusion of what my view is, but I believe it is according to the Gospel of Christ.

God saved sinful humanity, which Paul (not Saul) is the worst. Why did he say so? Because as an apostle that preach the Gospel of Christ and knew what God’s desire from him and have followed the Spirit his whole life ever since he became an apostle, could not perform a perfect righteous sinless life. He stands in himself guilty before God, but in Christ through faith he was justified. Therefore, he said he is the chief of sinners when he wrote this epistle, no wonder for his knowledge of the truth and of God.

The aim of God is to annihilates the sin in us, which is our self-love nature, it must be carried out by the Spirit and replaced with his love that seeks no self, in order this man is FIT for heaven, where the holy beings lived by this principle. No self-loving people would have place in heaven; their place is on earth till the great day to execute the wages of sin upon them.

But during the process to make them righteous in order he may accept them in heaven, these people knowingly or unknowingly commits sin. This would got them the condemnation of the Law if they were under the Law and God grace could not justify them to enter heaven for he would transgress his own principle. He had proven this in the past, when Christ must come and die to redeem those who were under the Law’s jurisdiction, judgment and condemnation including those great saints and prophets.

But because there is no written Law that govern men and put them under its jurisdiction and judgment, there is no condemnation for sin is not imputed. The condition of eternal life or eternal death then doesn’t lie on what they did or desire, but on God’s grace and mercy. For Christ believers who walk after the Spirit, they would be justified by their faith without the deeds of the Law, same for those who were not under the Law at all time and those who were once under the Law before redemption take place.

Therefore, the truth is; God saved sinners (humanity) from the death through Christ redemption that justifies all men in him and gave their life back and justifies sinners for their faith in Christ without the deeds of the Law, which means regardless of their sins, for if there is a Law that have jurisdiction upon them and judge them, no one could perform the deeds of the Law at the judgment and all men go to hell for their sins in breaking the Law, which make Christ died in vain, which pull Enoch, back to earth from heaven to die eternally.

So, the issue of salvation and to enter heaven is not how you must perform a righteous life through obedience to the Law but how would you maintain the salvation and heaven that is yours?

Did you get my point Mike?

In His love

James S

James, would you be willing to prove from the scriptures I posted earlier that the life and death of Jesus gives Him the right to save us with and/or in our sins?

Also, how do you define sin in the case of people who have been born again? Is sin still the transgression of God's law? or is it something else?

Mike.

You said:
James, would you be willing to prove from the scriptures I posted earlier that the life and death of Jesus gives Him the right to save us with and/or in our sins?
Unquote.

Which one, since I saw you have quoted many verses.

You said:
Also, how do you define sin in the case of people who have been born again? Is sin still the transgression of God's law? or is it something else?
Unquote.

Sin is always a transgression against the law of God, whether transgressing his Decalogue, his Torah or transgressing his principle.

Our nature is in it self a sin, because it is against God’s nature. This sin that was redeemed because it is not our fault since we inherit it from Adam though multiplication of the flesh.

In His love

James S.

Dear Brother Mike, you asked:

quote:

---

If and when God implants within us the governing principle of love are we born again with or without unknown defective traits of character? When is perfect obedience, perfect righteousness available to us? now or at the end of a long life of sinning and repenting?

---

My humble answers to -

Question #1: Without.

Question #2: Now.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Now I would hasten to say that the majority don't believe this way, and it is very difficult to help them see the light. I appreciate your posts here Mike. Blessings to you.