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Re: What Is The Truth About The Rapture?
#47214
12/29/03 07:33 PM
12/29/03 07:33 PM
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Will, the secrete rapture is about people leaving, not Jesus coming. The raptured go to heaven, Jesus doesn’t come to the world at that time.
This text is why they think the first rapture will be secrete:
“36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” Matt 24
So you have Jesus coming like a thief and taken one but leaving the other. Thief’s do things quietly, right?
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Re: What Is The Truth About The Rapture?
#47215
12/29/03 08:12 PM
12/29/03 08:12 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Well the fact of the matter is that when a thief comes it is a surprise. The 2 types of people outlined in the verses you pointed out refer to those who wil lbe saved and those who will be lost.
The rest of the verse provides ample information that one must keep watch, and you must be ready,and prepared.
God Bless,
Will
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Re: What Is The Truth About The Rapture?
#47216
12/30/03 02:45 AM
12/30/03 02:45 AM
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"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2 Peter 3:10 So we see that when the Bible speaks of "coming like a thief", it has nothing at all to do with being quiet! And again we see the danger in putting our own interpretation on what the Bible says. It explains itself more often than not. Where Jesus' coming being secret is concerned, He Himself specifically warned against any such notion: "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth: behold, He is in the secret chambers; believe it not." Matthew 24:26
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Re: What Is The Truth About The Rapture?
#47217
12/30/03 06:01 PM
12/30/03 06:01 PM
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quote:
The rest of the verse provides ample information that one must keep watch, and you must be ready,and prepared.
Will, that doesn’t make sense. How helpful is it to “keep watch” for something that you cannot see coming?
Jesus stated we would not see it coming, it would be a surprise to all, like a thief. So even if we “keep watch” we will still be surprised.
So the point is that we maintain our faith, not that we try and watch for when He will return.
Also, the one left and the one taken does not work with your scenario. Remember, the lost die by Jesus brightness at the 2nd coming. So one will be dead and the other taken, which is not what Jesus stated.
So it implies that the one left will still be alive, which means it’s not a public event.
quote:
So we see that when the Bible speaks of "coming like a thief", it has nothing at all to do with being quiet!
John, this is correct, but it is a different rapture than we are talking about.
If you read Rev 7 in context and chronologically we see that BEFORE the tribulation the 144, 000 of Israel are sealed. And then at the very same time in heaven there is a great multitude of all nations. Where did these saved come from? How did they get in heaven already?
So yes, you should be very careful in using an interpretation that is not indicated in scripture or originated outside of scripture.
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Re: What Is The Truth About The Rapture?
#47218
12/30/03 06:44 PM
12/30/03 06:44 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Lobo when Jesus comes it will be so obvious that the dead will be awakened.
God Bless,
Will
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Re: What Is The Truth About The Rapture?
#47219
12/30/03 06:49 PM
12/30/03 06:49 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Lobo, You doubt Christ's words about keeping watch, or is it difficult to understand what Christ has said about His coming? Are the dead going to just sneak out of their graves quietly or are they going to be awakened at the sound of the trumpet? Who's voice wakes up the dead? An example of how loud this trumpet can be or is can be read in Exodus 19:16 quote:
16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.
God Bless,
Will
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Re: What Is The Truth About The Rapture?
#47220
12/30/03 06:59 PM
12/30/03 06:59 PM
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quote:
Lobo,
You doubt Christ's words about keeping watch, or is it difficult to understand what Christ has said about His coming?
Are the dead going to just sneak out of their graves quietly or are they going to be awakened at the sound of the trumpet? Who's voice wakes up the dead?
An example of how loud this trumpet can be or is can be read in Exodus 19:16
Will, you don’t get it. The dead don’t go anywhere at the first rapture. The first rapture is before the tribulation and Rev 7 indicates, which I noticed you did not address.
The dead are raised at the rapture after the tribulation.
If you don’t believe this, then please explain where all the millions of people who are saved came from that are in heaven BEFORE the tribulation starts?
Either they are the spirits of those who have died and went to heaven or they are the saved group that was raptured before the tribulation? Which is it?
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Re: What Is The Truth About The Rapture?
#47221
12/30/03 07:02 PM
12/30/03 07:02 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Lobo,
I don't believe in a first,pre-post,rapture tribulation theory.. The Lord will come and every eye will see Him.
God Bless,
Will
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Re: What Is The Truth About The Rapture?
#47222
12/30/03 11:36 PM
12/30/03 11:36 PM
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And yet you still can’t explain who the large group in heaven is before the tribulation outlined in Rev 7. Shouldn’t you reserve judgment until you have all the facts or can at least account for all the information?
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Re: What Is The Truth About The Rapture?
#47223
12/30/03 11:41 PM
12/30/03 11:41 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Jesus never said His coming will be in secret, and specifically said it was NOT going to be a secret. So yu support the secret rapture theory..big deal. I don't.
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