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What was finished at the cross?
#48324
03/15/06 06:09 PM
03/15/06 06:09 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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It just dawned on me that this is the really issue behind the other topic I just opened (on whether Christ defeated sin and death on the cross).
What was finished at the cross?
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Re: What was finished at the cross?
#48325
03/16/06 04:15 AM
03/16/06 04:15 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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- Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
- Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
- Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
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Re: What was finished at the cross?
#48326
03/16/06 04:47 AM
03/16/06 04:47 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. (Col. 1:20, 21)
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Re: What was finished at the cross?
#48327
03/16/06 12:56 PM
03/16/06 12:56 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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What makes us think Paul is the final authority on the gospel. The poor brother was trying his best to understand what was involved.
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Re: What was finished at the cross?
#48328
03/16/06 01:01 PM
03/16/06 01:01 PM
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Posting New Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 30
Augusta, KY
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If Paul meant to say that we have been reconciled to Jesus automatically, then why would he also state:
"We pray ye in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God." (2 Corinthians 5:20)
Ellen White is more emphatic:
"They (people choosing to go their own way) are NOT reconciled to God, neither can be, until self is crucified and Christ lives in the heart by faith." (5 Testimonies, page 46)
"Those who do not believe in Christ are NOT reconciled to God..." (YI 11/29/1894)
There is a lot of talk recently within the SDA church that Jesus effectively saved all mankind at the cross. This is not found in the Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy. "Provision" was made to all the cross, Jesus did die for the sins of all mankind, but it is not until a decision is made for Christ that that provision becomes effective in that person's life.
"The Spirit was to be given as a regenerating agent, and without this THE SACRIFICE OF CHRIST WOULD HAVE BEEN TO NO AVAIL". (Desire of Ages, page 671)
The sacrifice of Christ shed the blood necessary for the atonement, but without the sprinking of that blood, that is the intercession of that blood, no one will be saved. This is clearly taught in Leviticus where God repeatedly states that AFTER the sacrifice, it is the priest that makes the atonement by applying the blood. The shed blood did nothing in itself until it was brought into the sanctuary.
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Re: What was finished at the cross?
#48329
03/17/06 04:59 AM
03/17/06 04:59 AM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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When Jesus cried, It is finished, He meant that the cup was empty. He finished drinking the cup of woe and trembling. The "it" referred to the cup. That's what Jesus "finished" on the cross. He did not finish saving us on the cross. What He did on the cross made it possible for Him to offer us justification and sanctification and glorification as our Mediator in the heavenly sanctuary.
Romans
4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
1 Corinthians
15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
He was raised for our justification. It was not accomplished or finished on the cross.
DA 758
To the angels and the unfallen worlds the cry, "It is finished," had a deep significance. It was for them as well as for us that the great work of redemption had been accomplished. They with us share the fruits of Christ's victory. {DA 758.2}
How did the blood of Jesus redeem angels and unfallen beings?
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Re: What was finished at the cross?
#48330
03/16/06 08:28 PM
03/16/06 08:28 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Question 1: How did the blood of Jesus redeem angels and unfallen beings? quote:
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. (Col. 1:20, 21)
Question 2: If Paul meant to say that we have been reconciled to Jesus automatically, then why would he also state:
"We pray ye in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God." (2 Corinthians 5:20)
quote:
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled. (Col. 1:20, 21)
The blood redeemed the universe by reconciling it to God. The peace was made by revealing God's character in contrast to the the character of the adversary. The chapter "It Is Finished" from "The Desire of Ages" discusses this in detail.
The reconciliation that Paul spoke of did not happen automatically, at least not individually, because it involves the reconciliation of alienated minds. We were enemies in our minds. But when we see the truth revealed by the cross, we are reconciled to God. The following brings this out well:
quote:
How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29.
The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. (DA 175, 176)
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Re: What was finished at the cross?
#48331
03/16/06 08:34 PM
03/16/06 08:34 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
There is a lot of talk recently within the SDA church that Jesus effectively saved all mankind at the cross. This is not found in the Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy.
Scripture presents Christ as the Savior of the world. John 4 says this (maybe vs. 42; I'm sure it's in John 4 somewhere) and 1 John also says it.
If Christ is the Savior of the world, it stands to reason He saved the world. Hence it is no surprise to find the following in the Spirit of Prophecy:
quote:
The deceiver presented himself as an angel of light, but Christ withstood his temptations. He redeemed Adam's disgraceful fall, and saved the world. (God's Amazing Grace 42)
So the teaching is found in both Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy. However it should be understood that individual salvation is not what either Scripture or the Spirit of Prophecy is discussing here.
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Re: What was finished at the cross?
#48332
03/16/06 08:48 PM
03/16/06 08:48 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Tom, thanks for setting the record straight for Bill.
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Re: What was finished at the cross?
#48333
03/17/06 03:26 AM
03/17/06 03:26 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Satan sinned, repeatedly, and was offered pardon on the condition of repentance and submission. quote:
(Satan) was not immediately dethroned when he first ventured to indulge the spirit of discontent and insubordination, nor even when he began to present his false claim and lying representations before the loyal angels. Long was he retained in Heaven. Again and again was he offered pardon on condition of repentance and submission. (4SP 319)
There is no mention of Christ’s having to die for him. Yet for us there is no pardon without the shedding of blood. Why not? Why the difference? Why could God forgive Satan without the shedding of blood, but not forgive us?
quote:
But even as a sinner, man was in a different position from that of Satan. Lucifer in heaven had sinned in the light of God's glory. To him as to no other created being was given a revelation of God's love. Understanding the character of God, knowing His goodness, Satan chose to follow his own selfish, independent will. This choice was final. There was no more that God could do to save him. But man was deceived; his mind was darkened by Satan's sophistry. The height and depth of the love of God he did not know. For him there was hope in a knowledge of God's love. By beholding His character he might be drawn back to God. (DA 761)
Bear in mind that this chapter, “It Is Finished,” was written to explain the purpose of Christ’s death on the cross.
Peter expresses the same thought expressed above:
quote:
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God. (1 Pet. 3:18)
The following quote discusses the purpose of Christ’s mission:
quote:
Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. (ST 1/20/90)
A little thought will show that if the whole purpose of Christ’s mission was to reveal God to us, then if Christ’s death was a part of Christs’ mission, it follows that the purpose of Christ’s death was to reveal God.
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