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Being a temple for God #48792
05/23/01 04:27 PM
05/23/01 04:27 PM
Sarah Moss  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,194
Alberta, Canada
Let's study here and find out how we can change ourselves and/or our lives, in a realistic manner, to be the complete, proper temples of God that we are told we are.

------------------
Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*


Re: Being a temple for God #48793
05/24/01 04:33 PM
05/24/01 04:33 PM
W
Wedntgp  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 132
?
I remember Christ saying something to the effect that we should be more concerned about what came out of our mouth than what goes into it. I suspect that is not the direction you intended this thread to go, but perhaps it could include that also. My mind is really where Christ and deal with each other. If my mind is right, my body can be "wrong". But is my body is right and my mind is wrong, there is no communication.

Re: Being a temple for God #48794
05/24/01 06:46 PM
05/24/01 06:46 PM
Sarah Moss  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,194
Alberta, Canada
Wedntgp, could you find the scripture for that and post it here? I'm at work so don't have time or resources to look it up here, but I'd be interested in knowing where that is.

I was thinking more along the lines of 1 Corinthians 3:16-17

quote:
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

What does it mean to defile the temple of God?

------------------
Sarah Moss
*Prayer Changes Things!*


Re: Being a temple for God #48795
05/24/01 07:46 PM
05/24/01 07:46 PM
W
Wedntgp  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 132
?
I understand the direction you intended to go, but I just couldn't help myself in posting the above. Look in the Gospel of Matthew, the 15th chapter beginning with about the 11th verse.

Do I remember correctly that you were going to give birth to a kid? If so, has it happened yet, and if not yet, when?


Re: Being a temple for God #48796
05/24/01 11:07 PM
05/24/01 11:07 PM
L
Linda Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
2500+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
quote:
Originally posted by Wedntgp:
My mind is really where Christ and deal with each other.

I hope you pardon me for asking, but did you leave out a word? Maybe I'm just dense today, but it seems like something's missing in this sentence.

If Sarah's having a baby, I don't think she's let us in on it yet or I missed the announcement somewhere. Gerry Buck became a grandpa twice this spring when two of his daughters had babies. You can see the babies' pictures in the Fellowship Forum.

------------------
For I know that my redeemer liveth,
and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth.

_________________________

Linda


Re: Being a temple for God #48797
05/25/01 12:18 AM
05/25/01 12:18 AM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,123
Nova Scotia, Canada
I was also wondering about that particular sentence. It is probably a typing error.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl


Re: Being a temple for God #48798
05/25/01 03:37 AM
05/25/01 03:37 AM
W
Wedntgp  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 132
?
Put an "I" in front of "deal", and it makes perfect sense.

Re: Being a temple for God #48799
05/25/01 03:41 AM
05/25/01 03:41 AM
W
Wedntgp  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 132
?
I was remembering an early message on the finding time to exercise thread, where Sarah said "I am planning to become a mother in the near-far future". I assumed that meant that the track to motherhood had been started and was irreversible. The "near" meaning it was happening, and the "far" meaning that pregnancy lasts too long in the mind of the pregnant.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.


Re: Being a temple for God #48800
05/25/01 12:42 PM
05/25/01 12:42 PM
Edward F Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,428
Zanesville, OH 43701

What was in question was eating without certain forms and ceremonies.

Matthew:15:
1 ¶ Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
10 ¶ And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Review & Herald Periodical Article
March 8, 1898 Tradition.
-
Mrs. E. G. White.
-

"Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread." Expecting to see Jesus at the Passover, the Pharisees had laid a trap for him. But Jesus, knowing their purpose, had absented himself from this gathering. "Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes." As he did not go to them, they came to him. {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 1}
This deputation was sent from Jerusalem for the express purpose of watching Jesus, that something might be found with which to accuse him. The Pharisees saw that the disciples did not observe diligently the traditions of the elders. They did not practise the custom of "washing of cups and pots, brazen vessels, and of tables." Hoping to provoke a controversy, the Pharisees said to Christ, "Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?" They thought to draw from Christ words of which they could make capital. But he answered them with authority, while divinity was revealed with startling power: "Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do." {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 2}
Christ gave them an example of what they were repeatedly doing, and had done just before coming in search of him. "Full well ye reject the commandment of God," he said, "that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honor thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: but ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. And ye suffer him no more to do aught for his father or his mother." They set aside the fifth commandment as of no consequence, but were very exact in carrying out the tradition of the elders. The sayings of supposed great men had been handed down from rabbi to rabbi, nullifying the plain requirements of God, "making the word of God of none effect," said Christ; "and many other such like things ye do." {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 3}
"And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand." He spoke with no hesitation, but with authority, as one who would flash light upon all around him. "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." These words, spoken in the hearing of the multitude, infuriated the ecclesiastical powers. The cavilers were seeking to destroy Christ's influence over the people, but he flashed forth such divine truth that they dared not ask him further questions. Christ knew that if he could speak directly to the people, opening to them the Scriptures, he would be heard; for they were in a far more receptive frame of mind than were the leaders. The punishment would fall upon those who were leading them from the path of rectitude. The people listened eagerly to all that Christ said; for never before had they heard such words. They were plain, direct, forcible, and brief, and clearly defined the true meaning of sin and pollution. {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 4}
The Pharisees had given expression to their hatred, but they dared not then carry out their full purpose. They slunk away, repulsed. They would not receive the light shining on their pathway. When the light shines forth, those who are unwilling to receive it begin to cultivate in the heart the seeds of bitterness. These they also plant in other hearts. This evil seed prepares a place for itself, and the unconverted heart sees everything in a perverted light. So it was with the Pharisees. {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 5}
"Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?" Christ knows the hearts of all men. Nothing is hid from him. "He answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch." "For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed. Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows; for every one is an hypocrite and an evil-doer, and every mouth speaketh folly." {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 6}
"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draft? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies; these are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man." {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 7}
In this our day we meet the same false religious requirements upheld by the Pharisees. The fourth precept of the decalogue is set aside, as the Jews set aside the fifth commandment, while traditions are eagerly grasped and enforced. The Lord did not give the Jews their multitudinous traditions and ceremonies. He did not require them to occupy precious time in doing that which was of no benefit to any one, while they disregarded his commands; neither has he commanded men to observe the first day of the week. {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 8}
To a large degree the religious world is following in the path of the Jews. The Pharisees taught for doctrine the commandments of men, making the word of God void by their traditions, and this the teachers of today are doing by upholding the first day of the week,--a day that bears not the divine credentials. They clothe their false Sabbath with a garb of sanctity, and many would compel its observance by imprisonment and fine. Under the enemy's training, their zeal will grow until, like the Jews, they will think they are doing God a service by heaping reproach on those who have the moral courage to keep his commandments. {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 9}
Those who do this venture to make of none effect a commandment instituted in Eden; for there, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy, the foundation of the Sabbath was laid, and the seventh day was set apart to be observed as sacred. The Lord blessed this day as the day of his rest, and sanctified it, commanding man to "remember." Do not forget it; keep it holy. {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 10}
Man has no permission from God to nullify one precept of the decalogue. He has no permission to lead the minds of others to bow to an idol, or to make laws compelling God's heritage to worship that which is false. Of those who do this, God says, "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoreth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me." They place the commandments of men on a level with the divine requirements; yea more, they exalt a spurious Sabbath above the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. Their obedience to man-made requirements makes their worship null and void; but God bears with their ignorance till light comes to them. {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 11}
The worship of a common working-day, and the multitudinous ceremonies connected with this false sabbath, are of the same nature as the wrongs pointedly exposed by Christ when he said, "And many other such like things ye do." The plain evidence of truth is not discerned. Laying aside the commandments of God as altogether unimportant, men follow tradition. They reject God's law, in order that they may keep their tradition. Common things are exalted above those things that are sacred and heavenly. {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 12}
Satan has taken the world captive. He has introduced an idol sabbath, apparently giving to it great importance. He has stolen the homage of the Christian world away from the Sabbath of the Lord for this idol sabbath. The world bows to a tradition, a man-made commandment. As Nebuchadnezzar set up his golden image on the plain of Dura, and so exalted himself, so Satan exalts himself in this false sabbath, for which he has stolen the livery of heaven. {RH, March 8, 1898 par. 13}
In this work the principles of the enemy are deep and deceiving, and Christ's words are appropriate, "Laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men." The heavenly universe is amazed that, in their credulity, men transfer the benediction given to the seventh day to the first day of the week. The Sabbath is God's memorial of creation and rest, and at the beginning of the Sabbath command he places the word of warning, "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." "Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid." Thus it was with the Jewish nation, and thus it will be with all who, laying aside the commandments of God, teach for doctrine the commandments of men.
-
{RH, March 8, 1898 par. 14}
*****************
January 3, 1900 "Ye Teach for Doctrine the
Commandments of Men."

Trifling Traditions--Christ's Position, and Why--Vain
Worship--Rooted Up--How Helped.


Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do Thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread." "The Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not." {ST, January 3, 1900 par. 1}
Many of the Jewish traditions were of so trifling and worthless a character as to cheapen their whole religion, and these traditions were handed down from generation to generation, and were regarded by many as the word of God. Human inventions, which were constantly becoming more foolish and inconsistent, were placed on an equality with the moral law, until at the time of Christ's first advent, pure doctrine had given place to false ideas. Selfishness, cupidity, self-exaltation had brought in every false practise, until the Jewish nation had lost their high-souled integrity, and their daily practises were acts of robbery toward God and their fellow-men. They robbed God of the pure service He required of them, and they robbed their fellow-men of religious guidance and a holy example. The Word of God was dismissed from their councils, and they laid their souls as manacled victims on the altar of mammon. {ST, January 3, 1900 par. 2}
Christ paid no heed to these human inventions, for He wished by His example to draw a line between human theories and the sacred requirements of God. To the charge of the Pharisees He said: "Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother; and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; and honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your traditions. {ST, January 3, 1900 par. 3}
The law of God requires that a son should honor his parents, and provide for their necessities, and tenderly care for them when they are old. But these false teachers taught that it was of far greater importance for children to consecrate their property by a vow to the temple service. Then when the parents applied to their children for assistance, they could say, "It is Corban, devoted to God." They taught that it was sacrilege to recall the property once given to the temple and appropriate it to the necessities of the parents. When such a vow is made, it was held sacred; it must be fulfilled; for, said they, has not God declared, "When thou shalt vow a vow unto the Lord thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it; for the Lord thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee"? Thus under a semblance of piety these teachers excused the youth from the obligations of the fifth commandment, while they appropriated to their own selfish purposes the property which should have been used to make their parents happy in their old age, and those to whom it rightfully belonged were often left in distress and want. The all-seeing eye of God looked beneath the action to the motive which prompted it, and He declared: "In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups. . . . Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition." {ST, January 3, 1900 par. 4}
Through Isaiah God had declared of this nation: "Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evil-doers, children that are corrupters; they have forsaken the Lord; they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward." "Forasmuch as this people draw near Me with their mouth, and with their lips do honor Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear toward Me is taught by the precept of men; therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous work and a wonder; for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid. Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?" {ST, January 3, 1900 par. 5}

Christ's Object.

The One who had spoken through Isaiah was now speaking to His people face to face. He was seeking to weed out the traditions and the false doctrines which had become mingled with the pure principles of God's Word. The scribes and Pharisees had accused Him and His disciples of transgression because they did not observe the traditions of the elders. Christ now showed them that it is not that which enters into the mouth that defiles the soul, but that which proceeds from the heart, and that by exalting the traditions of men above the law, they were polluting their own souls and the souls of others. Calling the multitude, He said, "Hear, and understand; not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." {ST, January 3, 1900 par. 6}
These words aroused the indignation of the Pharisees. That their aged traditions should be set aside and treated as fallacious, made them terribly angry. They were angry also that their deceitful hearts should thus be laid bare to the view of the people. {ST, January 3, 1900 par. 7}
"Then came His disciples, and said unto Him, Knowest Thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? But He answered and said, Every plant, which My heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone. They be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. {ST, January 3, 1900 par. 8}
By the words, "Let them alone," Christ did not mean that His followers were to make no effort to correct their untruthful doctrines. He was charging His disciples to enter into no controversy with them. "Let them alone," He said. Do not be indignant because they set aside My words. They are blind, and blind men can not see. They are leaders of the blind. They have an influence, and many believe their assertions. But because they do not open their understanding to the Word of God, they walk in darkness. If I tell them that they have no foundation for their tradition, and show them truth in contrast with error, they will not believe Me. It is not evidence of the truth they want; they want an excuse for holding to their traditions. {ST, January 3, 1900 par. 9}
To Peter, who had imbibed the teachings of the Pharisees, the words of Christ seemed new and strange. He said to Christ, "Declare unto us this parable. And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies; these are the things which defile a man; but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man." {ST, January 3, 1900 par. 10}
The teachings of Christ were just what the nation needed to save them from eternal ruin. He taught them pure requirements. He showed that no man who has not first offered himself to God as a living sacrifice, who is not a fit temple for the Holy Spirit to dwell in, is fit for the service of God. He taught that purification of life and character could be obtained only through Christ. They could discern heavenly things only by becoming partakers of the divine nature, by laying hold of the light and power and knowledge that He was bringing within their reach. {ST, January 3, 1900 par. 11}
Were Jesus personally teaching in our world today, we should hear from His lips the same truths. If we will submit to the working of the Holy Spirit, God will make us partakers of the divine nature. Only by walking according to the commandments of God can we be clean.
Mrs. E. G. White.

{ST, January 3, 1900 par. 12}

*******************
Since these articles provide facets of information on what defiles, i posted them.

------------------
Edward F Sutton


Re: Being a temple for God #48801
05/25/01 01:57 PM
05/25/01 01:57 PM
W
Wedntgp  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 132
?
Ed

I agree that the context and factual situation that Christ used to make His point and set forth the principle was as you described. However, the principle still remains that it is not what goes into our mouth is not what defiles us, but what comes out of it. As I suggested previously, I can have a very positive love relationship with the Lord and not have a great body, but if my mind is not right, and the things out of my mouth are defiled, that relationship is impossible. While it is true that the diet of people can be an indicator or what is in their mind, I believe that diet is not the focus of Christ's concern. If a person chooses a diet in order to rebel against God, it is sin. If a person chooses a diet to work his or her way into heaven, it is sin. If a person chooses a diet in order to improve a relationship with God, it is sanctification in action.

A query, if I would lose a leg, does God have less temple to "live" in? Of course not. But if I lose or neglect my mind, His ability to live in my life is diminished.

For what its worth, a pennys worth of my thoughts.


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