Avalee.

To comment on your post dated 06 February:

When the love of God ruled my heart shed abroad by the Spirit, I would have deeds of love to my fellowman as fruits of the Spirit.

Tell me, why should I obey the Ten Commandments? Isn’t my deeds fulfill the law demands as a natural outflow and not as an obligation? Do I need the Ten Commandments to guide and supervise my life to remain righteous? If I do, to me, it means I have not faith in the Spirit, for I still must try hard to be righteous as according the demands of the law by obeying it.

In His love

James S.

John.

Psalmist wrote regarding the law is a truth, but what Paul wrote regarding the law is also a truth. The difference is just the application to us, and Paul saw it from the practical view, the result of what happen to men who were under the law’s jurisdiction.

In His love

James S.

James Wrote,

quote:

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When Paul, John and James wrote about the law to be kept, I didn’t see it as the Ten Commandments, but “love your fellowman as your self.”

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Why did you conveniently leave out the statement by Jesus that you should "Love your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength" does it mean that half of the law which deals with our love towards God has been done away with. If so, could you support your claims appropriately.

Blessings,
EDWIN

James, a knowledge of the law doesn't save us. Knowing about the 10C's isn't what saves us from sin and sinning. But without a knowledge of the law we would be unable to discern sin and sinfulness. "I had not known sin, but by the law." Rom 7:7. "For by the law is the knowledge of sin." Rom 3:20.

In order to live in harmony with the principles of God's law a knowldege of the law is necessary and essential. But again this knowledge alone is not enough to save us from sinning. Knowing about the law cannot empower us to live in harmony with its loving principles.

Once we understand the principles of God's law we must turn to Jesus and trust Him for the power to live in harmony with its principles of love. Only Jesus can enable us to love God and to love man according to the holy, just and good requirements of the law. Without Him our knowledge of the law can only serve to condemn us in judgment.

Thus knowing about the law is as important as living in harmony with its holy, just and good requirements. But without the enabling grace and power of Jesus which makes it possible for us to live in harmony with the law any and all knowledge of it will condemn us in judgment.

So, would it be accurate to say that knowing and understanding the holy, just and good requirements of the law ceases to be necessary after we are born again? In light of Bible truth this question seems illogical - doesn't it!

The law never stops pointing us to Jesus as our Saviour and Substitute and Surety. It continually reminds us that Jesus is the only One who can empower us to experience the miracle of obedience. Only Jesus can make it possible for born again believers to love God and to love man. Only Jesus!

Welcome Edwin and thank you very much for your question...a very good one.

Amen Mike thank you very much. Your post is right to the point.

James you still have not answered me which one of the Ten Commandments you have a problem with. You do not seem to have a problem with the last six maybe? But is it the first 4? Please tell me which one of them is it that you do not like that makes you so unhappy? I think they are wonderful and such a blessing. When we love God with all our heart the Ten Commandments are obeyed from this. I do not belive the true Christian is sitting around thinking of them and wondering if he broke one or if he is keeping them. Just from being totally in obedience to God out of love they will be obeyed from the heart naturally.

Mike.

What you posted on February 16, 2004 11:23 AM, I could understand and in the view as a law keeper it is good and a truth. But in my view, having the knowledge of the law doesn’t mean I must come under the law’s jurisdiction with the obligation to keep and obey it. I knew what the law demands, I knew what sin is, I knew what the wage of sin is, but these all don’t make me feel that I must come under the law’s jurisdiction. Why? Because I believe that I might have deeds that conforms to the law’s principle and is in harmony with it demands without an obligation to keep and obey the law that makes me come under the law’s jurisdcition. How? Because my deeds are “fruits of the Spirit”, deeds that were based on love that seeks no self, deeds that were a natural outflow of my heart that was led by the Spirit, who did in me the “willing and the doing of God”; who “shed abroad the love of God in my heart” to replace my self-love nature. I trust and rely on the Spirit to make me righteous, to have a righteousness of the law (love that seeks no self) fulfilled in me without any obligation to keep and obey the law and come under its jurisdiction. Doesn’t the Gospel said: “but now the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith in Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that believe.” – Romans 3:21,22. And aren’t we justified by faith WITHOUT the deeds of the law? – Romans 3:28.

Tell me, do I need to come under the law and have the obligation to keep and obey it?

What important to me is to have deeds of love to my fellowman, which is a proof that the Spirit led my life, for I as a self-loving man could not love my fellowman, but if I did it, it means I have a heart that is filled with the love of God through the Spirit, a proof of the works of the Spirit that changes my self-loving heart to the unselfish love of God.
If I am obliged to keep and observe the law, especially the 7th day Sabbath because I am under the law’s jurisdiction, to me, it means I have no longer “freedom”, I am a slave to obligation. But “in Christ” I have the “freedom”, freedom from an obligation to keep and obey the law, freedom to live for God that resulted in a freedom of sin or freedom to serve the flesh.

In His love

James S.

Mike.

That what we differ, everybody here think and believe that if you don’t keep and obey the law, it means you break the law. But that is not true because they don’t understand that only WITHOUT the law I might have the righteousness of the law (love to our fellowman), which is a proof that I was lead by the Spirit, otherwise, all my deeds are of the flesh for it is done based on an obligation. When I obliged to do a thing, I did it on my own for I desired to do it, and since I believe the Gospel said I am a self-loving man, this mean my deeds is based on my own ego and selfishness.

But you would say, you are a New Born believer having the miracle of rebirth, where God implant in you a new heart filled with his love and a new sinless mind, then, why do you need the Spirit to mature in the fruit of the Spirit through an obligation to keep and obey a law? Why do you still need Christ and his grace to empower you to obey the law and fulfill it demands? Could you not do it on your own? Didn’t you have a new heart filled with love and a sinless mind?

If yes, then you really do not need Christ and his grace, because you could do and must do it all on your own, just like Adam and Eve did it, for they were created in perfection. Even you are still living in a corrupt flesh that still send signals of old habits, but it doesn’t mean you need the Spirit/Christ and his grace to overrule it. Could you not override it by your own will, a will that originated from a new heart filled with the love of God and a new sinless mind? By believing to have a new heart that is free of self and a new sinless mind of Christ, why do you still need Christ and his grace to mature in the fruits of the Spirit through obeying and keeping the law?

Therefore I believe that Paul already told us this case in his epistle; all who comes under the law’s jurisdiction with the obligation to keep and obey it, are living without Christ and his grace, because the law would justify them unto eternal life for their perfect obedience that resulted in a perfect sinless life without ever sinning. They didn’t need Christ and is fallen away from grace because they believe that through the miracle of rebirth as a start, they might live perfectly sinless through their obedience to the law thanks to their new unselfish heart and sinless mind of Christ. At the judgment, the law that is God standard of judgment and righteousness has only two options: to justify them unto eternal life for their perfect righteousness that fulfilled the law demands or to condemn them for their sins.

Not keeping and obeying the law, to me, doesn’t mean I break the whole law and did sin. I do not keep and obey the law because I believe I am not under its jurisdiction, and my life surely would not be a life in sin and in the flesh for I lived by faith and walked after the Spirit.

Tell me, when the Spirit lead my life, ruled my heart and mind, do I do the deeds of the flesh and sinned? If no, then why is it necessary for me to be tied up to an obligation to keep and obey a set of law that makes me a slave, while Christ has released me to liberty and freedom?

In His love

James S

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Why did you conveniently leave out the statement by Jesus that you should "Love your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength" does it mean that half of the law which deals with our love towards God has been done away with. If so, could you support your claims appropriately.

Blessings,
EDWIN
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Posts: 10 | From: Nairobi, Kenya | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged |

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Edwin.

Why do you think so? Don’t you know that by loving our fellowman, we have shown and proved our love to God because we did it for Jesus? Matthew 25:34-40.

In His love

James S

Avalee.

I already answered Edwin that by loving my fellowman, I did love God.

Regarding the law, I have no objection, for I am not under its jurisdiction and obligation to keep and obey it.

But if you think, that I did sin because I do not keep and obey the 4th commandment even though I have deeds of love to my fellowman, I would say that I do not sin for I do not break any law. “Where there is no law there is no transgression”, didn’t the Gospel say so? When I have fruits of the Spirit, no law is against it – Galatians 5:22,23.

I do sin in only one thing; doing things that is based on my own ego, on my love for self, for my own benefits, which is selfishness. But how could I do it when the Spirit led my life? I may only do it when SELF take over my mind and my heart. But since I am not under the law’s jurisdiction that would condemn me for this sin, God has the freedom to forgive me and justify me again WITHOUT standing against his own justice and righteousness that is in the law that condemns me, a thing that I believe he could not do when you are under the law’s jurisdiction because it would ruin his own integrity against the law.

If I have the obligation to keep and observe the 7th day Sabbath for it is God’s law, to show my love to Him, then, I believe I am obliged to keep the whole law, but when I obliged to do it, it shows that I have no faith and trust in the Spirit for I still need the law as a standard of righteousness to become righteous.

But you would say that you keep and obey the law not for seeking righteousness but just as an obligation because God required it from you to do that. If so is the case, I believe you lied, but maybe because you didn’t understand. The Gospel is clear; those who keep and obey the law would be justified by the law and those who sinned under the law would be judge by the law.

So, you have only two options for being under the law’s jurisdiction; to be justified unto eternal life (even you may deny it saying you do not seek righteousness by the law) or to be condemned for your sin.

And Paul continued; those who are justified by the law don’t need Christ; Christ died in vain for him and he fell away from grace.

Did Paul say this statement only to those who seeks righteousness by the law, such as for the Jews unbelievers only? No, he meant it for Christ believers as well for these statements was said to the Galatians believers (Gentiles believers), who were lead by false brothers to keep and obey the law.

The point is; when you have the obligation to keep and obey the law, you are tied up to this obligation; you become a slave to obligation. And what is the purpose of an obligation to keep and obey the law? To be righteous by not breaking it and sinned!

Don’t say that you keep and obey the law to show and proof your love to God as according to John 14:15,21. Because according to me, to love God is not by doing what the law says but because I have a heart that is filled with the love of God, enabling me to love my fellowman WITHOUT coming under the law’s jurisdiction.

Therefore, I have no objection to whatever the law says for I am not under the law’s jurisdiction. Not keeping the Sabbath holy is not a sin, because I did not break the 4th commandment as according to “where there is no law, there is no transgression.”

In His love

James S

James,
I've perfectly understood you. As far as you are concerned God's Law and Christ's Law are different. I don't recall Jesus at any time establishing His own Law different from God's Law. Paul whom, you extensively quote and misinterpret said that the Law is Good for without it he wouldn't have been aware of his sins. Now if we are not responsible to the law it means that it is impossible to sin (Because the law defines sin). Dividing the law into God's and Christ's means that God and Christ are not working together hence the two sets of laws. The prophet Jeremiah wrote that God's laws shall be written in our hearts. Can God's laws be written in our hearts and at the same time we live in opposition to God's Laws (God's laws and Christ's laws are the same because they are one). As far as I'm concerned Christ's Law (Love your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength and Love your neighbour as yourself) is no different from God's Law. You should therefore tell me if some commandments were excluded and if so, which ones specifically. Tell us where God's law was abolished in favour of Christ's Law. And finally tell us what you think Christ Himself meant by "Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. " Matthew 24:20
After all the flight was going to take place in the future after His death, ressurection and ascension.

Blessings,
EDWIN