All Excellent points!!!

Hello Everyone,

Ab, thank you for those stirring and encouraging thoughts. I always thought it was amazing that Jesus promised His followers that their future Spirit powered testimony and witness would exceed even His example and experience. See John 14:12.

Now I can see how these truths apply even to Ellen White and the future Elijah people and their witness and testimony. It thrills me to anticipate these things. I trust God will fulfill His promises then even as He is fair and faithful now.

Mike

Hello All!
Yes ! I agree that BOTH the Bible and SOP are the lesser lights, as Jesus is the light of the world!(John 8:12)

Jeff Pippenger quote: "Laodicea needs three items to recieve Christ.
Eyesalve, which is spiritual discernment, which is the Bible. And I do mean the bible. Certainly the holy Spirit has a great part to play in our spiritual discernment, but we must test the spirits, by the Bible. The Bible is called a "lamp unto thy feet". Spiritual discernment, or eyeslave is in one sense a lamp. The word Ellen means: A bright and shining light. Interesting when considered in connection with the "lesser light".
The second thing Laodicean's need is "white raiment.' Ellen's last name is white! The third thing a Laodicean needs is Gold tried in the fire, which is faith which works by love and purifies the soul. But what do you suppose Gould means?
It is an ancient English word that means gold. All three remedies for Laodicea are
symbolized in Ellen Gould White. God doesn't allow coincedences."

AMEN!

Also, we should note that 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man : but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost"[b/]

My point is this..God's prophets(prophetesses) were/are [b]not inspired in degrees , as some imply that Ellen White and Martin Luther and others were inspired alike.

God's prophets were inspired by the Holy Spirit!PERIOD!

Throughout the Holy Scriptures referring to Spiritual Gifts", mention is made in 5 different places "prophecy" (Romans 12:6;1 Corinthians 12:10,28;1 Cor.13:2;1 Cor 14:3;Eph.4:11-12).

And it would be well for us to note 1 Cor.12:1" Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I would not have you ignorant."

Also Ephesians 4:11-14 " And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine..." (emphasis mine-LM)
I'm reminded again, and perhaps someone has already quoted this statement recorded in 3SM83-4 "Men may get up scheme after schem. and the enemy will seek to seduce souls from the truth, but all who believe that the Lord has spoken through Sister White, and has given her a message, will be safe from the many delusions that will come in these last days."(emphasis mine-LM)

And it can't be much plainer than that, can it?

I live in a little town in Nova Scotia, Canada called "Pugwash"- meaning "Deep Water". The town has a seaport which exports Salt. Large ships come into port, but in order to navigate the river channel, which twists and turns, a pilot boat is needed to guide the big ships in. The large ships, I liken to as the Word of God. The "pilot boats" are similar to the SOP!

My dear Brothers and Sisters!
I believe that the SOP is a Survivor's Manual for the 144,000. And it is my prayer that we all awake as to the times in which we live.

Without the SOP in God's Remnant Church, we would cease to be SDA's

Keep "the" Faith BUT

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Sanctify the Lord in your hearts, AND BE READY ALWAYS TO GIVE AN ANSWER TO EVERY one who asks...(1 Peter 3:15)
Bro. Laurie

Hello Everyone,

While it is true all inspired authors are lesser lights pointing out the way to Jesus, the great light, it is also true that Ellen White did not hold writings to be equal to the Bible. We may do that ourselves, but I don't believe she did.

This does not suggest that she felt her writings were uninspired or even less inspired than Scripture. But still she never held her writings equal to the Bible. But for that matter neither did Peter or Paul. Neither one of them would have dared to hold their writings equal to the OT. And yet that's exactly what we do with them now.

Is Ellen White a lesser light compared to the Bible, the greater light? She would say so. But in reality is there any difference? I believe it is safer to say that there is a difference. Most of her counsel was given to the SDA church alone, whereas the Bible was given to the whole world. That counts as a big difference, don't you think?

By the way, I have no problem using the words lesser and greater light in more than one context. I don't believe they are limited to inspired writings and Jesus. That the Bible is the greater light too is clear from John 1:14 - "The word was made flesh." See also Ps 119:105 - "Thy word is lamp... and a light."

Mike

2Peter3:15,16--
3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. [emphasis mine]

Sounds like Peter put Pauls writings on a par with scripture to me.
Long before we came on the scene.

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Chose you this day whom you will serve,
as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Joshua 24:15

What is popular is not always right.
What is right is not always popular.

In nature God created light and gave it a place to rule over time frames in human existence.

Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

The physical light that made the moon a source of light was the sunlight reflected off it and down onto the Earth. So Sunlight was the more direct higher intensity light, and moon light was reflected and dimmer sunlight. The sun ruled the day & the moon the night.

Now consider the similarities & differences in the Bible & SOP.

Author - nope - no difference - have same author.

Inspired Messengers known as prophets, seers, Apostles. - Nope no differences there both groups represented in Bible & SOP.

Content and it's purposes. The Bible is written to cover all human population's needs till Second Coming. Only some of SOP is built for the world, most is directed into the Remnant body of believers. Bible does not build on SOP, but rather SOP builds upon the works of the Bible.

The Apostles, Prophets, Seers, etc were not sources of light but inspired reflectors.

Jesus was the Source, but the Father is greater than He in rank and authority & is called the Father of lights. (see James 1:17 KJV)

Calling something a lesser light means you are comparing it with a greater light. What if the lights are the same in nature but different in what audience they are built to reach and the works they are to do with those people they are designed to be sent to.

Could it be that the authority that both the Bible & sop are inspired with and given to humanity by that authority are equal, both being included in the phrase "every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God." ?

Would the time frame mentioned here suggest a continued inspiration, after the close of the canon of Scripture, and would this continuance be called SOP ?

Hebrews 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

As far as our understanding of greater & lesser, I will illustrate .

To illustrate my point, Isaiah 7:25"lesser cattle" were not called smaller Angus or tiny Herefords, but were called sheep. They were a different animal, though they grazed on vegetation, lived in flocks & herds, were also a food & money source. Both species came under old English heading "cattle" that was a broader heading that we define it today. Sheep (lesser cattle)were not inferior to cows & bulls & steers(oxen) or the (greater cattle). The sheep were physically smaller and the comparison of physical size was what was calling them lesser, not a comparison of quality or value.

Would it be proper to suggest that the SOP may be called "lesser light" not because it is inferior, but rather it's purpose is a narrower focus than canon Scripture. Since it comes through the same channel of delegation as canon Scripture, (Father, Son, Holy Ghost, holy angels) there is no inspired difference made as to the quality and authority inspiring the content of Scripture verses SOP or the method and accuracy of inspiration and relevancy nor the timelessness of either as they explain themselves.

The problem seems to be our ideas of lesser verses greater when we talk about inspired "light". Perhaps we are too narrow in our views. Perhaps looking at the big picture of the scope of human salvation, redemption, and the functions of inspiration would help us see more clearly.

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Edward F Sutton

[This message has been edited by Edward F Sutton (edited March 02, 2001).]

I like this thread.
I have really learned a lot, and you all have given me much to think about.
I think in terms of trucks.
You have small ones, big ones, bigger ones and really monster size ones.
Each a different size to do a different job, but all carry things from one point to another.
All are 'dispatched' to different locations to bring needed materials to that point.

I liken SOP and scripture and SOP to this.
Each has it's load to carry, each has it's job to do, but that's just it, they are the worker, they accomplish the delivery, they are not the destination nor the load.
Our destination is heaven and to be with Jesus, the load is the love of God towards mankind and the salvation He offers.
Scripture and SOP are the 'trucks' that bring the material [infornation] that is needed to complete the 'job' [informed salvation].

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Chose you this day whom you will serve,
as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Joshua 24:15

What is popular is not always right.
What is right is not always popular.

Gerry wrote:

quote:

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Sounds like Peter put Pauls writings on a par with scripture to me.
Long before we came on the scene.

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Good point, Gerry. But do you find Peter or Paul saying the same thing about their own writings? Yes, they believed their writings were inspired of God. But did they ever claim that their writings were equal to the OT? And did Ellen ever say her writings were equal to the Bible?

Mike

Edward wrote:

quote:

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Would it be proper to suggest that the SOP may be called "lesser light" not because it is inferior, but rather it's purpose is a narrower focus than canon Scripture. Since it comes through the same channel of delegation as canon Scripture, (Father, Son, Holy Ghost, holy angels) there is no inspired difference made as to the quality and authority inspiring the content of Scripture verses SOP or the method and accuracy of inspiration and relevancy nor the timelessness of either as they explain themselves.

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Yes, that would be fair too. But more than that. Like the moon reflects sunlight so too the writings of Ellen White reflect the Son (Jesus) light of Scripture. I think that's the main difference between the two. The source of Ellen's light is the Bible. Her light is reflected and not original in the SAME sense the light of Scripture is original. Not that her writings are less inspired than the Bible, but rather that her writings are a reflection of the Bible. I like to refer to her works as an inspired Bible commentary. Which doesn't make her less inspired in my mind.

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
I like to refer to her works as an inspired Bible commentary.

Mike

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An excellent description of the SOP!

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The Lord is the strength of my life and my portion forever.

[This message has been edited by Cathy Sears (edited March 02, 2001).]