We should definitely not lay the writings of the SOP to one side as we shouldn't lay the Bible to one side either.

We should read and study the Bible but not neglect the SOP as those writings were also inspired by God, and they were written for the purpose of bringing us back to the Bible.

We should, however, compare the SOP to the Bible, not the Bible to the SOP.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

I think we are getting away from the original question.

Sister White made a pretty startling statement to a group of believers.
She told them to 'lay her aside', and then she said 'never, never quote me anymore'.
I realize these are taken out of the original context, but we have been beating all around the bush about this.
We should be trying to understand a few things,
1) Why did she say it?
2) What exactly did she mean by it?[ergo, never as in ever again?]
3) What does this, or should this, say to us today?

I have had several people outside the church say they are concerned that all they hear is Ellen White this and Ellen White that.
When they attend an Evangelistic series, they hear bible, and a lot of it.
Then, when they start coming, they hear a lot of Sister White said this and Sister White said that.
What they are concerned about is that they don't hear as much bible as they used to.
Sister White said that if we had studied our bibles as we should have, there would have been no need of the Testimonies.Hard tack to take.
We were given the milk of SOP because we refused to be weaned, and eat the 'meat' of the scripture.

I have read a few of trhe sermons from the early preachers, surprising, almost no mention of SOP.
If quoted, no reference was given that I could find, except for the notes at the bottom.
I enjoy reading her books.
I get a lot out of them.
They have helped me greatly in my growth, but, they are not the end all be all of my spiritual life.
The Bible is.
She helps me understand some things that I have difficulty grasping, that is the purpose of her books, from what I understand from her own words.
Too often, we humans tend to venerate the messenger over the one that sent the message.
This is what she was addressing, they quoted her, they used her writings as the end all of their faith.
She was used as the final authority.
She didn't like it then, she wouldn't like it today if she were alive.

My $0.02, or less in todays economy.

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Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8

My point was not the content as milk, but the method of feeding. I think Gerry makes very valid points. I believe very strongly in the inspiration of SOP, and have felt convicted by the obvious spirit-filled writing as I have by no other. What I'm saying is that we are expected to study the bible first-hand, not second-hand.
SOP is not scripture. The same Spirit has moved people through the ages, but their work was never meant to be added to the cannon of scripture. Mrs White was especially moved by the Holy Spirit, and given direct counsel and messages, but she was not a bible writer. I have seen idolatry about her writings and person, rising out of people majoring in her works. Houses in which she lived are restored. What for? So needy families can live in them? No. Just as idolatrous (the excuse is "history") objects. Respecting a prophet is not the same as venerating everything they said, did, or touched. That is a Roman Catholic trait we condemn. Do not reject her writings, but be very certain you are using them in the way God intended. The difference can be subtle and insidious.

My father was a minister for 25 years(maybe 20), he never quoted Mrs.White in his sermons. She herself said that and meant that. I know of so many people that have been turned away from a church because the minister did nothing but read Mrs.White in the service. No Bible. I wouldn't trade her writings for anything, but they have their proper usage, and she made it very clear what it was.

Wendy

I believe we are all saying the same thing in that the Bible is the book of books from Genesis to Revelation, and is clearly the book to be studied.

quote:

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2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

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What does the SOP say about itself? Should we not read and study it too as long as we don't elevate it above the Bible or replace the Bible with it?

any other SOP or Bible quotes that will help answer that question?

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

Sometimes people get into the rut of thinking that because she was a prophet, everything she wrote was inspired.

She never claimed that.
Many of the books we have today are a compilation of things she wrote in other instances.
There are even copies of her personal letters floating around.
While they make for good reading and we can, perhaps, take some of the admonitions she handed to heart, I don't think she should be venerated as she is in some circles.

That is why she wrote what she did, she didn't want to happen in our church what happened in others.
Look at all the other denominations, if their founder didn't say it, it must be hearisy(sp?)
They alsostarted quoting their writings instead of the bible.
This was the problem she was addressing.
Instead of saying "Thus saith the LORD", it was sister White said this and sister White says that.
She didn't want them doing that, she wanted them to stand up and shout "THUS SAITH THE LORD, thus shalt you do".
The Testimonies were given for our admonition and to help in our growth, and so they do.
But she herself called them a lesser light, their purpose? to point to the scripture, the source of light and life in this dark age.

There is nothing wrong with studying SOP, but we need to be so well versed in scripture, we can stand when the time comes, and be able to say' Thus saith the Lord', to any and all that ask.
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Be always ready to give an answer, be able to say why there is the hope in you.
Be like Paul and preach Christ, let us say with him:1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
The Lamb is come, were we ready for Him?
I pray that we are.

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Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try my reins and my heart. Ps.26:2
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in men.Ps.118:8

I'd like to just say a word about EGW not disagreeing with Scripture. This is true, and here's the reason: She tells us what Scripture means. In other words, our understanding of Scripture and what it is saying comes from EGW, so of course it will never disagree with Scripture.

This reasoning is circular. We need to "lay Sister White right to one side" and read what the Bible is really saying, without the EGW blinders on.

quote:

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And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper. 2 Chronicles 20:20

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Our watchword is to be, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." [ISA. 8:20.] We have a Bible full of the most precious truth. It contains the alpha and the omega of knowledge. The Scriptures, given by inspiration of God, are "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." [2 TIM. 3:16, 17.] Take the Bible as your study-book. All can understand its instruction. {GW 309.1}

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Nothing is so precious to me as to know that Christ is my Saviour. I appreciate the truth, every jot of it, just as it has been given to me by the Holy Spirit for the last fifty years. I desire everyone to know that I stand on the same platform of truth that we have maintained for more than half a century. That is the testimony I desire to bear on the day that I am seventy-eight years of age.--Ms 142, 1905, pp. 1, 2. {4MR 44.5}

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The great waymarks of truth, showing us our bearing in prophetic history, are to be carefully guarded, lest they be torn down and replaced with theories that would bring confusion rather than genuine light. Ms 31, 1896, p. 1. ("Testimony Concerning the Views of Prophecy Held by Brother John Bell," November 8, 1896.) {1MR 54.3}

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When men come in who would move one pin or pillar from the foundation which God has established by His Holy Spirit, let the aged men who were pioneers in our work speak plainly, and let those who are dead speak also, by the reprinting of their articles in our periodicals. Gather up the rays of divine light that God has given as He has led His people on step by step in the way of truth. This truth will stand the test of time and trial. Ms 62, 1905, p. 6. ("A Warning against False Theories," May 24, 1905.) {1MR 55.1}

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Satan is . . . constantly pressing in the spurious--to lead away from the truth. The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. "Where there is no vision, the people perish" (Prov. 29:18). Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimony.-- Letter 12, 1890. {1SM 48.3}

There will be a hatred kindled against the testimonies which is satanic. The workings of Satan will be to unsettle the faith of the churches in them, for this reason: Satan cannot have so clear a track to bring in his deceptions and bind up souls in his delusions if the warnings and reproofs and counsels of the Spirit of God are heeded.-- Letter 40, 1890. {1SM 48.4}

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For I know that my redeemer liveth,
and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth.
_________________________

Linda

This says what I've been trying to say. The topic built a platform for those who wanted to move from the actual question into something else & it pulled others into it that would not have gone there.
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"I have been carrying a great burden for the people in Battle Creek. Last night I was laboring most earnestly in prayer. The commission was given me by the Saviour, "It is not you they have rejected, but Me, their Saviour. You have nothing to retract of the messages that you presented during the General Conference held at Oakland and during the Berrien Springs meeting. You have a work to do of the same order. You have nothing to regret in the words you have spoken and written to the leading medical missionary workers. I have for you still more decided messages to bear. Those who have made light of the messages that I have given My messenger to bear, have insulted the One who gave the messages." {13MR 320.1}

Our people need to humble their hearts, and confess their sins and be converted. They need to fear and tremble lest God's Spirit be withdrawn from them, and they be left to hardness of heart and blindness of mind because they have rejected the word God has given them. {13MR 320.2}

The messages that God has sent have been borne line upon line, precept upon precept. The Lord is still working, and He gives the admonition, "Keep the people, the flock of My pasture, from being educated by physicians or teachers who reject the warnings I have given through My messenger. My Sabbath has been transgressed, and the light that would have shone forth has been quenched." {13MR 320.3}

The SOP may not be part of human's canon of Scripture, but it is part of God's canon of Scripture. The Book with the seven seals is God complete Bible. Nothing is lacking & all SOP is there not just EGW.
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We ask John what he saw and heard in the vision at Patmos, and he answers: "And I saw in the right hand of Him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon." {20MR 197.1}

There in His open hand lay the book, the roll of the history of God's providences, the prophetic history of nations and the church. Herein was contained the divine utterances, His authority, His commandments, His laws, the whole symbolic counsel of the Eternal, and the history of all ruling powers in the nations. In symbolic language was contained in that roll the influence of every nation, tongue, and people from the beginning of earth's history to its close. {20MR 197.2}

This roll was written within and without. John says: "I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon." The vision as presented to John made its impression upon his mind. The destiny of every nation was contained in that book. John was distressed at the utter inability of any human being or angelic intelligence to read the words, or even to look thereon. His soul was wrought up to such a point of agony and suspense that one of the strong angels had compassion on him, and laying his hand on him assuringly said, "Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." {20MR 197.3}

John continues: "I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him that sat upon the throne."

As the book was unrolled, all who looked upon it were filled with awe. There were no blanks in the book. There was space for no more writing. [Rev. 5:8-14; 6:8, quoted.] {20MR 197.4}

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Edward F Sutton

quote:

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Our High Calling
Page 6

When Ellen G. White laid aside her pen after seventy busy years of ministry, she left to us a rich legacy of ever timely instructions, inspired counsels, and earnest admonitions touching almost every phase of practical Christian experience. Our High Calling is made up of choice selections from this vast treasury as found in Ellen G. White articles that appeared week by week in the journals of the church, her public discourses, her manuscripts, and letters of counsel to individuals, many of them
Seventh-day Adventist youth.

It is clear that Mrs. White contemplated the use of these messages in the production of books, for she indicated in a statement written in 1905 that "I am endeavoring by the help of God to write letters that will be a help, not merely to those to whom they are addressed, but to many others who need them." Although written many years ago, these counsels speak to our hearts today, to encourage, instruct, and inspire us in victorious practical everyday christian living and witnessing, particularly in view of the imminence of our lord's return.
To make the reading for each day complete within the limits of a single page, it has been necessary at times to make deletions in order to bring the reading to the right length. All deletions are indicated in the usual manner. Likewise, in many instances material on a page has been drawn from more than one source. Great care has been exercised to avoid any distortion of meaning, and that which appears clearly presents the intent of the author. Proper source references for each quotation are given, whether article, pamphlet, manuscript, or book.

Our High Calling, presenting a devotional reading for each day introduced by an appropriate Bible text, has been prepared as an enrichment of the morning watch devotional plan and appears simultaneously in several languages. That this volume, comprised of messages inspired by the Spirit of God, will be treasured as other like volumes have been in the past, and will be the means of encouraging all who read to "press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus" is our sincere wish.

THE TRUSTEES OF THE ELLEN G. WHITE ESTATE
WASHINGTON, D.C.

Selected Messages Book 3
Page 98
The Testimonies for the Church
Letters to Help Others
Anticipated Use of Letters.

I am endeavoring by the help of God to write letters that will be a help not merely to those to whom they are addressed, but to many others who need them.--Letter 79, 1905.

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I would assume then that these other letters that are around are not letters that have been given to the EGW Estate....would I be correct in assuming this. I personally have never seen any of them.

The only EGW material I have read are materials that have been put in book form in one way or another or from a CD or from the online site. When I run across something that I might quesition..like where I might post something, etc......I will either go to that book or online to the site and search it out and see if that is what is truly written there. I cannot read the Spirit of Prophecy wondering "Is this inspired or not inspired?" Until I run across something that goes against the Bible I must read the Spirit Of Prophecy as "all inspired".

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[This message has been edited by Avalee (edited August 27, 2001).]