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One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

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Are ALL Ellen White's writings inspired?

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Originally posted by Bill Wennell:
Are there errors in the Testimonies? Conflict of the Ages series? Any of the published works?

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If you had made God's word your study, with a desire to reach the Bible standard and attain to Christian perfection, you would not have needed the Testimonies. It is because you have neglected to acquaint yourselves with God's inspired Book that He has sought to reach you by simple, direct testimonies, calling your attention to the words of inspiration which you had neglected to obey, and urging you to fashion your lives in accordance with its pure and elevated teachings. {5T 664.3}

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Originally posted by Snowman:
So this brings another question to the forefront. Do we need to study follow and believe the writtings of EGW to be saved?

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There is not a point that needs to be dwelt upon more earnestly, repeated more frequently, or established more firmly in the minds of all than the impossibility of fallen man meriting anything by his own best good works. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone.. (FW 18)

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Originally posted by Bill Wennell:
Darius, I see you are nothing but New Theology according to your posts here and elsewhere. PhD means you have wordly wisdom, but I see you have no Spiritual wisdom.

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"Some Christians, however, are immediately up in arms. Has the apostle taken leave of his senses? Does he begin by declaring that salvation is by faith alone (e.g. 1:16f.), and then destroy his own gospel by saying that it is by good works after all? No, Paul is not contradicting himself. What he is affirming is that, although justification is indeed by faith, judgement will be according to works. The reason for this is not hard to find. It is that the day of judgement will be a public occasion. Its purpose will be less to determine God's judgement than to announce it and to vindicate it. The divine judgement, which is a process of sifting and separating, is going on secretly all the time, as people range themselves for or against Christ, but on the last day its results will be made public. The day of God's wrath will also be the time when his righteous judgment will be revealed (5b)."

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Originally posted by Snowman:
asygo, your quote is nice and all BUT what is the point???

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Originally posted by Snowman:
If according to the quote , that people would not heed the call of the BIBLE what or why would they "soften their hearts" to the thousands of pages written by EGW?

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Originally posted by Snowman:
I am wondering how those people that do not strive to follow the SDA BIBLICAL teachings, look at the Seventh-day Adventist Church where some people strive to put EGW as high and in some cases even highr than the BIBLE.

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1. We study the Bible only, since we agreed that it is inspired truth.
2. We can study the Book of Mormon, but only after we study my 3-volume set of the SOP Library.

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There is not a point that needs to be dwelt upon more earnestly, repeated more frequently, or established more firmly in the minds of all than the impossibility of fallen man meriting anything by his own best good works. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

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Let the subject be made distinct and plain that it is not possible to effect anything in our standing before God or in the gift of God to us through creature merit. Should faith and works purchase the gift of salvation for anyone, then the Creator is under obligation to the creature. Here is an opportunity for falsehood to be accepted as truth. If any man can merit salvation by anything he may do, then he is in the same position as the Catholic to do penance for his sins. Salvation, then, is partly of debt, that may be earned as wages. If man cannot, by any of his good works, merit salvation, then it must be wholly of grace, received by man as a sinner because he receives and believes in Jesus. It is wholly a free gift. Justification by faith is placed beyond controversy. And all this controversy is ended, as soon as the matter is settled that the merits of fallen man in his good works can never procure eternal life for him. (FW 19)

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The opposite and NO LESS DANGEROUS ERROR is that belief in Christ releases men fromm keeping the law of God; that since by faith alone we become partakers of the grace of Christ, our works have nothing to do with our redemption." (Steps to Christ, page 60)

Notice she says this view of believeing in faith alone (without the fruit of works) is a dangerous error.

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In infinite love and mercy God made Christ, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that in Him we might be made the righteousness of God. Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example. This faith which receives salvation comes through the divine power of the Word and is the gift of God's grace. Through Christ we are justified, adopted as God's sons and daughters, and delivered from the lordship of sin. Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; the Spirit renews our minds, writes God's law of love in our hearts, and we are given the power to live a holy life. Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment.

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Paul and James. Here is where nearly everybody quotes the words of James, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" James 2:21. Unfortunately this text is usually quoted as a disparagement of the words of Paul. It seems to be taken for granted that there is a contradiction between Paul and James; and sympathy naturally leans to James, because people like to believe that there is some merit in their own works, and they imagine that this is what James teaches. Indeed, there are some who hold that James wrote for the purpose of correcting Paul's "extreme views" of justification by faith.

We may well throw all such foolish and wicked ideas to the winds. No one need hope to come to an understanding of the Scriptures until he approaches them with the settled conviction that "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God." The Holy Spirit does not at one time inspire words which must later on be corrected.

Faith Working. The trouble with those who thus read the words of James is that they suppose that the apostle says that Abraham was justified by his own works of faith. "Seest thou how faith wrought?" That is ever the mark of living faith, as the apostle is showing. And that is just the statement of the apostle Paul. The last verse of the third chapter of Romans tells us that by faith we establish the law.

Moreover, the very term "justification" shows that faith performs the requirement of the law. Faith makes a man a doer of the law, for that is the meaning of the term "justification by faith." So in James we read that the works of Abraham simply showed the perfection of his faith. "And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness." The apostle James, therefore, teaches the same kind of justification that Paul does. If he did not, one or the other or both of them would be discredited as apostles. Justification by faith which works is the only kind of justification known in the Bible.

Debt and Grace. "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." It is necessary to keep in mind what the apostle is writing about. The subject is the means by which a man is justified. To him that works for justification, the reward of righteousness is not a gift of grace, but the payment of a debt. That is, it would be so if there were any righteousness by works. In that case, the man would come to the Lord and demand of him his due.

But no man can put the Lord under obligation to him. "Who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?" Rom. 11:35. If any one could do something for the Lord for which the Lord would be under obligation to him, then all things would not be from him. That is to say, the idea of justification by works is opposed to the fact that God is the Creator of all things. And, conversely, the recognition of God as Creator is the acknowledgement that righteousness comes from him alone. (Waggoner on Romans)

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Hearts are not softened by the words in the SOP, nor by the words in the Bible. Hearts are softened by the Holy Spirit, the Author of those words. Those who rebel against the Spirit's voice in the Bible will also reject the SOP, for it is the same voice.

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Originally posted by Darius:
Another demonstration of the Fallacy of the Assumed Premise. When will we accept the fundamental teaching of the Bible that the human race was saved two thousand years ago, so that there is nothing we need to do to be saved? We continue to base our discussions on what we should certainly understand to be an untruth. We don't need to do anything to be saved. Christ did it all already.

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All people will hate you because you follow me, but those people who keep their faith until the end will be saved.
Mark 13:13 NCV

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Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved, but anyone who does not believe will be punished.
Mark 16:16 NCV

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Then anyone who calls on the Lord will be saved.
Acts 2:21 NCV

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Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved -- you and all the people in your house.
Acts 16:31 NCV

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and all need to be made right with God by his grace, which is a free gift. They need to be made free from sin through Jesus Christ.
Romans 3:24 NCV

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Anyone who calls on the Lord will be saved.
Romans 10:13 NCV

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And you are being saved by it if you continue believing what I told you.
1 Corinthians 15:2 NCV

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Live in the right way so that you will be saved and your weakness will not cause you to be lost
Hebrews 12:13 NCV

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I started this thread was for me to try to understand WHY we the SDA Church would need for so MUCH writting from a prophet in this day.

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Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:4,5)

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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16)

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17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

19And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

20And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

21And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

23And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:

24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

25Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

26And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.

27And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.

28And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.

29And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:

30But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

31And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. (Luke 15)

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23Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.

24And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.

25But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.

26The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

27Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. (Matt. 18)

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(10) Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
(11) The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
(12) I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
(13) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
(14) I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18)

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6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. (Romans 4:6-8)

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8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Romans 10)

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23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.(Romans 6)

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6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.(Romans 11)

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8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.(Eph. 2)

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23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (Romans 3)

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20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe.(Romans 3)

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There is not a point that needs to be dwelt upon more earnestly, repeated more frequently, or established more firmly in the minds of all than the impossibility of fallen man meriting anything by his own best good works. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone. (FW 18; from the chapter titled "Through Faith Alone")

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Our acceptance with God is sure only through His beloved Son, and good works are but the result of the working of His sin-pardoning love. They are no credit to us, and we have nothing accorded to us for our good works by which we may claim a part in the salvation of our souls. Salvation is God's free gift to the believer, given to him for Christ's sake alone. The troubled soul may find peace through faith in Christ, and his peace will be in proportion to his faith and trust. He cannot present his good works as a plea for the salvation of his soul.(3SM 199)

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Man can be justified alone through the imputation of Christ's righteousness. Man is justified freely by God's grace through faith, and not by works, lest any man should boast. Salvation is the gift of God through Jesus Christ our Lord. (That I May Know Him 82)

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It is impossible for man to save himself. Christ's righteousness alone can avail for his salvation, and this is the gift of God. This is the wedding garment in which you may appear as a welcome guest at the marriage supper of the Lamb. Let faith take hold of Christ without delay, and you will be a new creature in Jesus, a light to the world. Christ is called "The Lord our righteousness." And through faith each one should say, "The Lord my righteousness." When faith lays hold upon this gift, the praise of God will be upon our lips, and we shall be able to say, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."(BE 4/1/93)

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When you turn away from the broken cisterns that can hold no water, and in the name of Jesus your Advocate come directly to God, asking for the things you need, the righteousness of Christ will be revealed as your righteousness, the virtue of Christ as your virtue. You will then understand that justification will come alone through faith in Christ; for in Jesus is revealed the perfection of the character of God; in His life is manifested the outworking of the principles of holiness.(1SM 330)

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When you turn away from the broken cisterns that can hold no water, and in the name of Jesus your Advocate come directly to God, asking for the things you need, the righteousness of Christ will be revealed as your righteousness, the virtue of Christ as your virtue. You will then understand that justification will come alone through faith in Christ; for in Jesus is revealed the perfection of the character of God; in His life is manifested the outworking of the principles of holiness.(1SM 330)

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There is not a point that needs to be dwelt upon more earnestly, repeated more frequently, or established more firmly in the minds of all than the impossibility of fallen man meriting anything by his own best good works. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone. (FW 18)

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4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

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It can be said that we are saved in faith alone since the real meaning of true faith implies an active, working faith

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"justification will come alone through faith in Christ." The heresy is not "faith alone" but "faith which isn't faith." True faith produces works. The works testify to the genuineness of the faith. But it's important that we understand that our salvation is a free gift, received by faith alone.

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Ah, faith "alone" but yet includes obedience, how then is it alone?

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If obedience is a necessary and integral component of faith, then the statement “faith alone” is an accurate and complete statement, even though it has been misunderstood and misapplied over the centuries. I do agree that when using the term “faith alone” among people who mean it differently, i.e., don’t regard obedience as an integral component, we need to refer to the concept in clearer terms. I think “faith THAT works” is appropriate. But we can’t assume that when another person uses the term “faith alone” that he or she necessarily omits obedience as a component. We should first seek to know what is meant before concluding anything.

BTW, Bill, the tone in your last post is a marked improvement. The softer tone gives the impression that you respect those whom you are addressing.

As a side note, you can go to the EGW website, look the references up there, then cut and paste them to save you all the time of keying them in and perhaps missing key words.

Jeff

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"Faith alone in Christ" is not the same as "faith in Christ alone", while it can be said the context supports this or that there is no other option, is not valid.

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You have failed to produce one statement where she quite definitely says "faith alone (or, only)" in regards to salvation.

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4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

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If the Holy Spirit did not say it, why should we? Who are we to say, "I know I correctly understand faith to include (good works, obedience, etc) so therefore I can state we are saved by faith alone," when the Bible never says that. Semantics? Not necessarily, maybe the Holy Spirit knows better than we that people are more likely to confuse the issue than we would think.

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So forgive me if your sterile environments leave you with nothing to do but post on nice cushy forums were errors are nowhere to be found, the church is running fine, and we can call things whatever we want, since everyone is on the same sheet of music.

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To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. (Acts 26:18)

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But notice here that obedience is not a mere outward compliance, but the service of love. The law of God is an expression of His very nature; it is an embodiment of the great principle of love, and hence is the foundation of His government in heaven and earth.

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There are a number of different topics now being discussed, so let's deal with them one at a time.

1) Are Ellen White's writings on par with the Bible?

Yes, they have the same Author, so we make a mistake when we try to pit one against the other. If you disagree with this, then may I propose that the real question would be to ask God why He sent another prophet if one was not needed.

Furthermore, what group since Apostalic time has had the entire truths set out in the Bible? This demonstrates the need of Him sending Ellen White.

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Bill Wennell be careful!!!!! You are on very dangerous ground here! Revelation tells us clearly that there is no more to add to the bible! In fact we are cautioned that whoever adds to these words to him will be added the seven last plagues and whoever takes away from these words his name will be reoved from out of the book of life! By putting sister White in the level of the Bible you are on dangerous ground of adding to the scriptures!
Are we not allowed to have a prophet who EXPOUNDS on biblical truthes without bring in new truthes and thereby ADDING to the bible? Instead of condemning those who do not share your particular line of thought please consider this question: CAN the adventist truthes be proven from the Bible WITHOUT Mrs White? If your answer is no then I would really suggest that either you are making Mrs White a god OR that you are in the wrong church!
For myself I do believe that she was inspired in her writing, but also that she could make mistakes like anyone else and therefore I enjoy her works (now I'm old enough to appreciate them!), but I would have to disagree with you putting her on the level of the bible!
Of course in all ages and generations we have had ALL the truthes set out in the Bible, just we as fallible individuals have not made the use of such a wealthy resource! We rely on having others expund the scriptures for us. We want to be fed rather than to feed ourselves!
By the way if you believe so strongly about her being on the same level of the bible to you have a copy of the study bible put out the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement created with E G White commentary in it?

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If we would only accept the Bible for what it is -- the history of an ancient people -- instead of trying to convince people that it is the "inerrant word of God," we would never have to worry whether EGW's writings are equal to the Bible.

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18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

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This is what it says now:

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18. Gift of Prophecy
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

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Isn't this new wording basically saying the same thing?

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But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines, and the basis of all reforms. The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority,-- not one or all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain "Thus saith the Lord" in its support. {GC88 595.1}

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One could hope that this statement would conclude the issue, however, I have doubts it will. To much faith placed in Ellen to let her go so easily...

/Thomas

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What do you mean by "To much faith placed in Ellen to let her go so easily...???

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