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Pillars/Landmarks
#74070
05/03/06 07:35 PM
05/03/06 07:35 PM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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Quote:
The passing of the time in 1844 was a period of great events, opening to our astonished eyes the cleansing of the sanctuary transpiring in heaven, and having decided relation to God's people upon the earth, [also] the first and second angels' messages and the third, unfurling the banner on which was inscribed, "The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." One of the landmarks under this message was the temple of God, seen by His truth-loving people in heaven, and the ark containing the law of God. The light of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment flashed its strong rays in the pathway of the transgressors of God's law. The nonimmortality of the wicked is an old landmark. I can call to mind nothing more that can come under the head of the old landmarks. All this cry about changing the old landmarks is all imaginary. {1888 518.2}
I see here a very short list of landmarks:- cleansing of the sanctuary
- three angels' messages
- commandments of God
- faith of Jesus
- temple of God in heaven
- Sabbath
- nonimmortality of the wicked
Is there anything else, based on inspired sources, that can be added to this list?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Pillars/Landmarks
#74071
05/03/06 07:50 PM
05/03/06 07:50 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The background on this is that there were those who were protesting against the message of Jones and Waggoner saying it was doing away with the old landmarks.
Ellen White had the insight to see that Jones and Waggoner were actually preaching the gospel, righteouness by faith, and not merely a viewpoint regarding the Law in Galatians. They were thinking that EGW had agreed with someone else, can't remember who, regarding the Law in Galatians, whose view was contrary to J. H. Waggoner's (E. J.'s father; the Waggoners' view was the same, that the Law in Galatians Paul was dealing with was the moral law) and now by agreeing the E. J. Waggoner she was contributing to doing away with an old landmark. They doubted her office as a prophet, rather than recognize their error. E. J. Waggoner and A. T. Jones eventually left, and the old guard won; their opposing views are still entrenched.
Anyway, EGW was asked if justification by faith was a part of the third angel's message, and she replied that "justification by faith is the third angel's message in verity."
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Pillars/Landmarks
#74072
05/05/06 09:20 PM
05/05/06 09:20 PM
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OP
SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
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I have never really studied the politics of 1888, since it doesn't interest me. I just want the truth, no matter who did or did not believe it. So I'm not very familiar with the various factions of the time.
Based on your reply, am I right in concluding that EGW did not believe that "the Law in Galatians" was a pillar or landmark?
By God's grace,
Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Pillars/Landmarks
#74073
05/05/06 10:36 PM
05/05/06 10:36 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Quote:
I have never really studied the politics of 1888, since it doesn't interest me. I just want the truth, no matter who did or did not believe it.
If God has given us truth, and a prophet has identified that, and told us where to find it, and we want to find it, shouldn't we look where we've been directed? This really doesn't have anything to do with politics.
Yes, you're right that EGW did not believe the law in Galatians was a pillar or old landmark. You can tell from her remark (last sentence) that she thought the suggestion was frivolous.
She understood that the Law in Galatians was part of a bigger issue, justification by faith. As to whether justification by faith was a landmark, she replied "justification by faith is the three angels message in verity."
She upheld Waggoner's teaching on righteousness by faith (and the law in Galatians as well; 1SM 234, 235). It is because Waggoner had the view of righteousness by faith which he held that he the views he had regarding the Law in Galatians. It's not that the Law in Galatians wasn't important, but it wasn't a world in and of itself, which is how those who were fighting against it were viewing it. They even rejected other truth they were convinced was right (Waggoner's view on the Covenants) because they were afraid if they gave up their view on the Covenants they would have to give up their view on the Law in Galatians, which they didn't want to do. (1888 Materials, 604; We still haven't accepted Waggoner's teaching on the Covenants, notwithstanding Ellen White's specific endorsement; cherished viewpoints are hard to give up!)
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Pillars/Landmarks
#74074
07/02/06 03:03 PM
07/02/06 03:03 PM
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Since this topic was referred to in another topic, I thought I would bring it back to the list of mre recent topics and posts.
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Re: Pillars/Landmarks
#74075
07/08/06 11:48 AM
07/08/06 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
The passing of the time in 1844 was a period of great events, opening to our astonished eyes the cleansing of the sanctuary transpiring in heaven, and having decided relation to God's people upon the earth, [also] the first and second angels' messages and the third, unfurling the banner on which was inscribed, "The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." One of the landmarks under this message was the temple of God, seen by His truth-loving people in heaven, and the ark containing the law of God. The light of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment flashed its strong rays in the pathway of the transgressors of God's law. The nonimmortality of the wicked is an old landmark. I can call to mind nothing more that can come under the head of the old landmarks. All this cry about changing the old landmarks is all imaginary. {1888 518.2}
I see here a very short list of landmarks:- cleansing of the sanctuary
- three angels' messages
- commandments of God
- faith of Jesus
- temple of God in heaven
- Sabbath
- nonimmortality of the wicked
Is there anything else, based on inspired sources, that can be added to this list?
I would also like to know if anything else can be added to this, based on inspired sources.
Also, what's the difference between the pillars/landmarks and the fundamental beliefs of the SDA Church?
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Re: Pillars/Landmarks
#74076
07/08/06 01:36 PM
07/08/06 01:36 PM
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Full Member
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
USA
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Daryl
As far as the "land marks", The Sabbath, the Sanctuary message, The State of the Dead, the Sabbath and the Three Angels Message, there are many things that they taught that are “inspired”. Such as, Christ and His Righteousness, the Godhead, the types and antitypes of the old temple services and the cross, the final destruction of the wicked, the thousand years and Satan left alone on this earth, the prophetic time lines and their understanding, the Sealing Message, who the Beast of Revelation are and their rules, the Plagues (do you know how hot it will get in the fourth plague?), Grace, Justification, Sanctification, the wearing of jewelry.
All these are scriptural and there are others as well, that I may have left out, all are taught in the old writings, I have read some of the “new” views by some SDA teachers on subjects from the book of Hebrews or Galatians and the Sanctuary Message and they are not the same as that which was taught before. This is due mainly by using a more modern “bible”. This leads to different views and different understandings from what the Holy Spirit lead the founders to understand, or they have in some cases taken a more worldly view like the stance on makeup and jewelry.
Does this help?
Peace and Grace
David
The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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Re: Pillars/Landmarks
#74077
07/11/06 05:21 PM
07/11/06 05:21 PM
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Were all those other ones you listed amongst the pillars/landmarks of the SDA Church?
If so, I would like references to that effect.
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Re: Pillars/Landmarks
#74078
07/12/06 12:21 AM
07/12/06 12:21 AM
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Full Member
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
USA
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Quote:
Were all those other ones you listed amongst the pillars/landmarks of the SDA Church?
If so, I would like references to that effect.
Outside of the Sanctuary, Sabbath, State of the Dead, Three Angels Message, you can find the Sealing Message in the little book by Loughborough in 1916 called “Questions on the Sealing Message”, Christ and His Righteousness from Waggoner in his book by the same name, also from the 1888 message, types and antitypes from the book called “the Cross and its Shadow” by Haskell, the study on Galatians by A. T. Jones. And from reading Sister Whites old books the S.O.P. and Spiritual Gifts, and the old R&H articles. You can also read the “Present truth articles from the 1850’s by mainly Alder White and others also. In these old writings the Scripture is there to support the beliefs as well.
There really is not a particular page or article it is from many articles and old books.
It has taken a few years to read and study these writings and I and still finding new things.
If you are interested in the 4th plague the answer is in the book of Isaiah.
Did you read the fundamental principles of 1872?
Peace and Grace
David
The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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Re: Pillars/Landmarks
#74079
07/12/06 06:07 AM
07/12/06 06:07 AM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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I can tell you that Stephen Haskell's book The Cross and its shadow, is absolutely wonderful!
As for the issue on jewlery, I see a couple of things, both are distinct. for example Lucifer was decoreated in gems, we will have a crown to wear, and according to Sister White if I recall correctly we will have a gem stone for each person who gave their life to Christ on account of our testimony.
Now I have a book called Mystical Medicine, and it talks about how jewlery use to be a form of gem therapy, which is very new age\occultic type of practice. I can get the exact informaiton and post it. Its a wonderful book published by Teach Services.
God Bless,
Will
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