|
Forums118
Topics9,199
Posts195,619
Members1,323
| |
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
|
5 registered members (dedication, Karen Y, Nadi, 2 invisible),
3,409
guests, and 22
spiders. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: NIV vs KJV
#74185
05/12/06 06:40 PM
05/12/06 06:40 PM
|
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
|
|
Quote:
NIV or KJV?
Well this is interesting, has anyone taken the time to compare the Book of Hebrews from both books?
The NIV, waters down the Sabbath so much that one would ask why we need to keep it if they did not know better.
Found a difference in the fourth chapter. The NIV says "They shall never enter my rest." while the KJV says "If they shall enter into my rest". A real difference. I couldnt understand the difference until I got the idea to check what Paul was quoting. Apparently he is quoting the 95th psalm which says in its last verse KJV "11Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
" The KJV in Hebrews is the only way to translate it according to the Strongs concordance. And it appears that NIV chose its translation from the original psalm. What to do with this I do not know.
Quote:
On top of that, there are many text left out of the NIV which are in the original text. The “scholars of the NIV claim that the text was not really there in the original manuscripts. For example in the NIV, one cannot learn how to have the faith of a mustard seed, for the “scholars” deemed it un-necessary to add, claiming that it was not in the original text. But here it is for you to compare.
Matthew 17:20-21(KJV) “And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.”
Matthew 17:20-21 (NIV) “20He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you. When they came together in Galilee, he said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men.”
Footnotes:
· Matthew 17:20 Some manuscripts you. 21 But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.
By not teaching how you can receive this kind of faith that Jesus talked about and said was there for us, they weaken and deprive the people of this very important passage. Why?
With this quote I would add the previous verses which says:
18And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
19Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
Is the praying and fasting refering to gaining faith or is it refering to the casting out of demons?
Quote:
Compare John 3:16.
KJV “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
NIV “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Notice the word “should” in the KJV and then compare that to the word “shall” in the NIV. Is this the same meaning?????
No, you are right. "Should" indicates a possibility while "shall" indicates a sertainity. Acording to KJV believing in God does not nessessarily mean you will not perish. What to do with that?
Quote:
How about Revelation 14:12, this is a hallmark of Adventism what do the two teach?
KJV “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”
NIV “This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.”
Please notice that the KJV teaches what the Saints have “patience” and what they do, they keep the Commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. What kind of Faith do the saints have? Why the same faith that Jesus had when He walked this earth some 2000 years ago. Total faith and dependence upon the Father, for every breath, every heart beat, a total faith that the Almighty God who is in charge this is what the Saints will have. Is this what the NIV teaches? NO.
Peace and Grace
David
What the Concordance entry for the word translated patience in KJV says:
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) steadfastness, constancy, endurance
a) in the NT the characteristic of a man who is not swerved from his deliberate purpose and his loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings
b) patiently, and steadfastly
2) a patient, steadfast waiting for
3) a patient enduring, sustaining, perseverance
For Synonyms see entry 5861
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 32
AV - patience 29, enduring 1, patient continuance 1,
patient waiting 1; 32
From this we see that "patient endurance" is a valid translation and that "patient waiting" is the translation most often used in the KJV for this greek word. This in my opinion means that there isnt much of a case for "one is right, the other is wrong" in this particular case.
/Thomas
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
|
|
|
Re: NIV vs KJV
#74186
05/14/06 02:44 AM
05/14/06 02:44 AM
|
|
|
I agree with David about the KJV as it was done by men under the order of King James without hardly any type of religious bias.
|
|
|
Re: NIV vs KJV
#74187
05/14/06 05:38 AM
05/14/06 05:38 AM
|
Most Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
|
|
NIV:
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
KJV:
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Notice that the NIV has the S in uppercase and singular usage for the word day, meaning the 7thday. The KJV uses lowercase S and has plural form of day "days". This is consistent with the Bible considering that the feasts fell on days. The NIV uses this passage to appear that the 7th day Sabbath was done away with. To me thats not correct.
Also keep in mind that in Spanish there is a Bible translation known as Reina Valera which is a Protestant Bible made in 1602. The reformation was underway in many different areas, you had Sabbath keepers in the British Isles, and throughout Europe prior to this movement. Something to keep in mind.
God Bless,
Will
|
|
|
Re: NIV vs KJV
#74188
05/14/06 08:56 AM
05/14/06 08:56 AM
|
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
|
|
Daryl
Are you honestly believing that a bible translation made just after the reformation but in the buildup for the 30 year war (at least in rethoric fought over the rigth to choose to be catholic or protestant) was "without hardly any type of religious bias"? In an England which had yet to decide wether to be protestant or to be catholic with the puritans emigrating to America and the catholics trying to blow up both king and parliment in the Guy Fawkes conspiration, I dont think one could talk about a lack of religious bias.
/Thomas
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
|
|
|
Re: NIV vs KJV
#74189
05/14/06 09:13 AM
05/14/06 09:13 AM
|
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
|
|
Quote:
NIV:
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
KJV:
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Greek for 4521
Pronunciation Guide
sabbaton {sab'-bat-on}
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
a) the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
b) a single sabbath, sabbath day
2) seven days, a week
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 68
AV - sabbath day 37, sabbath 22, week 9; 68
Among other uses refered to in the concordance for this same word:
Mat 12:1-2,5,8
Mat 24:20
Mat 28:1
Mar 1:21
Mar 2:23-24,27-28
Mar 3:2,4
And so on..
Mat 12:8 For 1063 the Son 5207 of man 444 is 2076 Lord 2962 even 2532 of the sabbath day 4521.
Col 2:16 Let 2919 0 no 3361 man 5100 therefore 3767 judge 2919 you 5209 in 1722 meat 1035, or 2228 in 1722 drink 4213, or 2228 in 1722 respect 3313 of an holyday 1859, or 2228 of the new moon 3561, or 2228 of the sabbath 4521 [days]:
Quote:
Notice that the NIV has the S in uppercase and singular usage for the word day, meaning the 7thday. The KJV uses lowercase S and has plural form of day "days". This is consistent with the Bible considering that the feasts fell on days. The NIV uses this passage to appear that the 7th day Sabbath was done away with. To me thats not correct.
Also keep in mind that in Spanish there is a Bible translation known as Reina Valera which is a Protestant Bible made in 1602. The reformation was underway in many different areas, you had Sabbath keepers in the British Isles, and throughout Europe prior to this movement. Something to keep in mind.
God Bless,
Will
Since it is the same word that is used in colossians 2:16 as is used in Matthew 12:8, I think the NIV translation is preferable. Do you disagree?
/Thomas
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
|
|
|
Re: NIV vs KJV
#74190
05/14/06 06:45 PM
05/14/06 06:45 PM
|
Most Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
|
|
I dont believe the NIV makes the matter clear, but serves to illustrate to those who are not aware of the difference between the Sabbath Day, and sabbath days as being one and the same and ultimately as being a shadow of things to come, and as being done away with.
Verse 17 follows up and states that these were a shadow of things to come, and these were types, and shadows such as meat and drink offerings, and allt he different feasts. These feasts were called "sabbath days", and these feasts were a shadow of things to come. The KJV translators translated this even by adding the italicized "days" to it. Whereas the NIV includes it as Sabbath Day when the original manuscripts do not state "Sabbath Day", the word Day was added, just like days was added, and the addition of the word "days" is accurate, not "Day". Do feast days come to mind when you see Sabbath Day rendered in the NIV?
God Bless,
Will
Last edited by Will; 05/14/06 06:47 PM.
|
|
|
Re: NIV vs KJV
#74191
05/14/06 07:52 PM
05/14/06 07:52 PM
|
|
|
Just a little story about translations. I knew a lady who was giving Bible studies to a Catholic couple who insisted on using their Bible. She ended up proving to them that the Sabbath was the 7th day using the Catholic Bible. I found that interesting.
Redfog
If at first you don't succeed.....destroy all evidence you ever tried.
|
|
|
Re: NIV vs KJV
#74192
05/14/06 09:53 PM
05/14/06 09:53 PM
|
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
|
|
Will,
You are either missing or ignoring the point. Using the strongs concordances that build upon the KJV has made it clear that the sabbath mentioned in colossians is the same as the one Jesus declared He was lord over. Now, do we choose to say that this word does not refer to the seventh day sabbath, well, it will be easier to talk about the verses in colossians but what day is then Jesus lord over?
If we instead choose to say that this word, "sabbaton", is the seventh day sabbath, then it is clear that Jesus is lord over it but we will no longer be able to judge others over it while keeping integrity. (And there are other scriptural reasons why we shouldnt go around passing judgement upon others anyway so this should really not be any big deal..)
There are differences between the KJV and the NIV, but before one or the other can be thrown out it must be conclusively shown that the differences are not mere variants of valid translation but that someone has been making unfounded changes, added or deleted information that cannot be found in the greek text. Also, I would think that the proper way to do things is to make theology dependant upon the bible text and not the bible text depending upon theology.
/Thomas
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
|
|
|
Re: NIV vs KJV
#74193
05/14/06 10:24 PM
05/14/06 10:24 PM
|
Most Dedicated Member
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
|
|
I missed your point Thomas. Sorry about that. Yes you are right theology should be based on the Bible, I dont see your point here either, but agree that thats how is is.
Thanks,
Will
Last edited by Will; 05/14/06 10:27 PM.
|
|
|
Re: NIV vs KJV
#74194
05/15/06 06:59 AM
05/15/06 06:59 AM
|
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
|
|
To use the example text in colossians, many SDAs like to judge non-sabbatarians for not keeping the sabbath and therefore do not like a text that tells us not to. The theology "sunday keepers/worshipers should be judged" determines the response given to the bible text saying "do not judge anyone over .. .. sabbath days." (The responce in this particular case "there is an evil conspiracy to undermine bible truth by translating the word as...)
The other way around is to read the text "do not judge anyone over .. .. sabbath days" and come to the conclusion that the proper way to deal with those who do not keep sabbath cannot include sitting in judgement over them.
Or is there some other reason why there would be a problem that the sabbath is in the list Paul makes in colossians 2:16? Is the reason still there if you thoughtfully consider what the text says and not how it is used/misused?
/Thomas
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|
