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Re: Modern Christ
#74282
05/27/06 09:00 PM
05/27/06 09:00 PM
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Or use that TV to watch 3ABN and the Hope Channel. 
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Re: Modern Christ
#74283
05/27/06 11:27 PM
05/27/06 11:27 PM
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Like just about everything in life, the TV can be used for good or evil.
A Christian person in business should be above reproach even if there is no chance of getting caught. Take every tax loophole you can, but anything beyond that is sin. Jesus told us to pay our taxes just as we are to give to the church.
Being completely honest in business can at times bring a negative result to the bottom line however we will be rewarded at a future date beyond all earthly expectations. And besides I've seen over and over again how God will bless the honest with earthly riches and success.
And there are certain occupations that we might want to steer clear of if they are ones that might put us in compromising situations.
Redfog
If at first you don't succeed.....destroy all evidence you ever tried.
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Re: Modern Christ
#74284
05/28/06 03:58 AM
05/28/06 03:58 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Quote:
What is the principle of doing business in Christ way?
Basically, as a business man, I want to make provit as much as posible when it is posible, but some times it is hard to speak the truth whenever my client said that I quote to high and seek for to much profit. Some time I countered I only have small margin or just comission, which is not true.
There are many things in doing business that needs us to speak and act falsely in order to cover our main purpose or target, bribing, etc I think this is usual in business world but not for modern Christ to do business.
So, any sugestions how we could deal business in the way of a modern Christ when faced with the high competition and many competitor and the need to get the order.
In His love
James S
It is impossible to deal business “in the way of Christ” “without Christ”.
This is a typical way most religious people work. They believe about God (they say they believe in God). But to believe God is a lot more then just doing business “in the way of”.
Before the way business is done changes, ownership needs to change. As long as you are the owner, you are going to find yourself in all the situations you described, because you have something that is of mammon, and Satan will come and find it in your heart, and will put you in such straights as will get the best of you regardless of your religion.
Back about 30 years ago, when I surrendered (for ‘surrender’ it was to me at that time) my life to the Lord, I discovered he wanted my business too. Of course if he is going to have me, he’ll have everything I own, but here the matter was different because you see my business at that time was not very valuable, in fact it was a liability. In fact it was a net worth liability of the equivalent of an upper midrange home in Toronto.
Well, it was a rather surprising discovery (for the religious man that I was) to discover that he wanted to take over my real life liabilities, and own them. And what was for me to do, but only be a faithful steward, following his bidding; and he would take care of the rest.
Now if you talk about being pressed for money and wanting to get out of debt, can’t say I did not have that excuse. On top of that, much of the debt was from a previous business, which meant by tax implications that I could not deduct it against my present income. So here I was not only needing to make money to cover previous losses but also had to pay tax on top of that. So there is another excuse. Is that a good enough setup?
It was a very interesting time of being in business with the Lord. A customer would come along and want to buy several thousand dollars worth but did not want to pay the sales tax. So I faltered and did the deal. Once the day was over and I was alone reflecting, my owner (Lord) and I had an argument over the matter (is he ever patient). Well, he told me to do as he says and he will take care of the bills. So, I booked the transaction and paid the sales tax.
Next comes along a customer who had an instrument that he wanted to sell. Well, he did not know the value of it, and asked me what I thought he could get for it, as he had been trying to sell it for $600.00 for 3 years, and nobody wanted it. Well I looked over the instrument and saw that it was worth around $4000.00. So I thought of giving him the $600.00 dollars and buying it (would not do anything wrong, would I, and I could pay some bills with the profit). Just then the Lord spoke to me and said: “Do not take advantage of some else’s ignorance”. So I said to the customer: “I will buy it from you for $600.00 if you want, but I do not think you should want to do that, because I think it is worth $4000.00”. At which time he almost scorned me, so I said to him: Leave it with me and let me setup the instrument, then you play it for a couple of weeks, and if you still want to sell it afterwards I will buy it. He thought that was fair.
Well to make the long story short, he never did sell it. The part however is that after his third visit he introduced himself as the head of the music dept. for a Board of Education, and wondered if I would be willing to service all of their instruments. Well that brought in about $30,000.00 per year over the next decade. You can figure that math, remember it was 28 years ago. By the way a few years later he was offered $7000.00 for the instrument and would not sell it.
Now, one more example: Few years later another Board of Education, which happened to be our original mainstay of work, changed their budget policies. Up to that point in time, all repairs were paid from a central budget. Now they decided that repairs for certain items would go from the central budget, while each school received an allocated amount for repairs of other items. Well that put some of the things we serviced from the one budget and some from the other. It was no issue for us, except that the teachers got the idea that they wanted us to do the service as usual but just call it a repair of the things that would fall to the central budget. Not the thing I could do with the Lord. Within a few weeks we lost most of the work from that Board.
I said Lord you know our needs. Within a month, a new customer walked in with an instrument for some minor work. While I was attending to the work on his instrument, he started talking to me that he heads the music dept. for … (sound familiar? This happened to be the largest Board in the city) and … yes, would I like to service all their instruments. This more then made up for what we had lost.
One other thing, ever since I and the business became the Lord’s, I have never needed to advertise. The Lord says: “I own the cattle on a thousand hills”. I could say: business provides a great opportunity for a wonderful experience with the Lord. And by the way business has been around in the time of Christ, in fact, Christ worked in the family business for most of his life.
So what are the principles?
It is impossible to deal business “in the way of Christ” “without Christ”.
Before the way business is done changes, ownership needs to change.
For the rest: If any man lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
I sure needed it.
May God bless you.
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Re: Modern Christ
#74285
05/28/06 05:20 AM
05/28/06 05:20 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Thanks John
It’s a good post and touched my heart, because I think, I hadn’t this experience so far in my 10 years of doing business, in the sense that God is the owner of my business, I still though it is my business and just ask his blessing.
I remembered once a view years ago when I lived a life of faith, I faced such conditions that was almost impossible to happen to me. If I was not strong in my commitment to surrender to the will of God, I would be back in the way of the world as I had been in the past.
Imagine, in the 4 months period since the day I repent, all my business where the deals reach 95% and just need small items to accomplish the deal and sign the contract, failed at last, while in the past 3 years when I lived a life of the flesh my business run very well. I almost never failed when the deal reached 95%. I didn’t understand why always at the end of the deal the business failed even though I had prayed hard in faith.
So, when one of the deal accomplished and the contract is signed, I was happy as I though at last God answer my pray, but unfortunately the vessel that I sent to port to pick up the cargo (I am in the transportation business / Freight Forwarding) was hit by thunderclap during her voyage and got damage and could not continue her voyage. I was so frustrated and nearly turn away my back from God because I thought he has left me all right, but at last I decide to keep my commitment. And what happened in the next months and years that follow? My business was going well again and I earn more than enough to cover the company cost and family needs and gave great donation to the church / school where my kids studied.
But, I must admit that I was not always firm in faith, view years later I lapse again in the way of the world. But what I wonder, that during my life in the flesh my business went well and better, only my personal expenses (night life, gambling etc) was so great that I could not spare much. During that time I never pray, never goes to church, because I could not have two masters; when I serve God, I live for God and when I serve the flesh, I live for the flesh.
Just 2 months ago I decide to come back to the Lord before it is too late, before he draws back his Spirit. I realized that it is a real pity to be lost while you know what God wants from you and you know the truth and you have the ability to share the truth, which in the past (1982-1983), as the result of my “door to door” private evangelism, have brought 3 people to the truth of the Sabbath and baptized.
And what happened in these 2 months period, again the 95% deals (more than US$ 300,000.00 worth) failed at the end. I am just afraid that God really left me this time, but I and my wife have decide that this repentance would be our last, from now on we would live for God no matter what happen.
The question is: Why when I lived for the flesh my business going well, but when I decide to repent, the next half year is always difficult and almost all deals failed? If that is a test, why would He test me, I don’t need that kind of test, I need His blessing in order the deals might be accomplished and business run well as usual.
When Satan is my master, I am well fed, so I want when God is my master, he fed me more. Is that okay to think that way? Or, is it God who fed me when Satan is my master?
In His love
James S
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Re: Modern Christ
#74286
05/28/06 05:57 AM
05/28/06 05:57 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Yes, I almost never pay my taxes. I have no interest to pay the taxes in the past years when I lived for the flesh. But I think it is necessary to pay it from now on as I want to do business in Christ way, even though there is no tax inspection in the past 5 years.
Before I repent, bribing is a common sense. Some time the Project Manager just asked a return commission (RC), but mostly besides the RC there is a secret additional to the value of the contract. Let say, we came to an agreement that worth USD. 50,000, but in the Contract it was written USD. 55,000 where the USD. 5,000 belongs to the PM off the record.
I think, this is not bribery, I believe this is not a sin for me to accept the PM proposal, anyway it is him that steal from the company, not me. What do you think about this? It is very common in business, especially here in Indonesia. And the problem is, when you neglect their proposal, you will surely lost the job, meanwhile you need it hard.
Yeah, I realize it is a hard way to do business Christ’ way in a corrupt country (#3 or 4 in the world), where money is god.
In His love
James S.
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Re: Modern Christ
#74287
05/28/06 05:59 AM
05/28/06 05:59 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote:
Get ride of that TV it makes a huge difference.
Unquote.
Wow, that is a great idea but surely my family could not afford that and even my self.
And if we are very sure that we might overcome the world trough living in Christ, why trying to get rid of all what might tempt us, why not live with it but don’t let it master over you.
I agree with what John said: “Creeping compromise in personal life is surest way to separate one from Christ while still mentally thinking that one is a believer.”
It had happened to me in the past.
Yes, some times the programs are so very attracting, like what I and my wife watched last night “the American Idol Final” a delayed broadcast by one of local TV in Jakarta. We sat down 2,5 hours in front of the TV to watch it till finished.
And I think I will spent more time to watch the Germany World Cup 2006, that all it broadcasting will start from midnight till morning for a one month full time period.
I am thinking, it is a real pity that the grand opening falls on Friday night till morning, our Sabbath day. I am not sure if I would let it pass, and I am sure that many SDA’s will not let it pass without watching it. This is a test, I think, for us. Maybe compromise for once upon a time would do us no harm?
In His love
James S
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Re: Modern Christ
#74288
05/28/06 02:02 PM
05/28/06 02:02 PM
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Full Member
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Get ride of that TV it makes a huge difference.
Unquote.
Wow, that is a great idea but surely my family could not afford that and even my self.
And if we are very sure that we might overcome the world trough living in Christ, why trying to get rid of all what might tempt us, why not live with it but don’t let it master over you.
I agree with what John said: “Creeping compromise in personal life is surest way to separate one from Christ while still mentally thinking that one is a believer.”
It had happened to me in the past.
Yes, some times the programs are so very attracting, like what I and my wife watched last night “the American Idol Final” a delayed broadcast by one of local TV in Jakarta. We sat down 2,5 hours in front of the TV to watch it till finished.
And I think I will spent more time to watch the Germany World Cup 2006, that all it broadcasting will start from midnight till morning for a one month full time period.
I am thinking, it is a real pity that the grand opening falls on Friday night till morning, our Sabbath day. I am not sure if I would let it pass, and I am sure that many SDA’s will not let it pass without watching it. This is a test, I think, for us. Maybe compromise for once upon a time would do us no harm?
In His love
James S
My family and I unplugged 4 years ago and you would not believe the time one has to have more time with the Bible and with family. There is no such thing as real family time when one sits in front of the TV. This is what we have come to understand.
There are a lot of things that we can get rid of but this does not mean that we should be cut off from what is happening in the world. Just screen the things very carefully.
Instead of normal TV, get a VCR or DVD and be very picky about what is watched. Nature and good Bible tings, educational things are the best.
And best of all when Sabbath comes you do not have those shows or games on your mind wondering what happened.
Peace and Grace
David
The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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Re: Modern Christ
#74289
05/29/06 01:30 AM
05/29/06 01:30 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I agree with 1888. If you have means to tape things, that could solve the Soccer on Sabbath problem, and also make it easier to pick good things to watch.
You're very honest, James! That's a refreshing quality.
I think the way to overcome these temptations, is by taking hold of a positive thing rather than by trying to not do a negative thing. That is, we can learn to love the Gospel (and the Lord of the Gospel!) so that we find it more interesting than other things which would grab our attention.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Modern Christ
#74290
05/29/06 02:28 AM
05/29/06 02:28 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Quote:
Quote:
Get rid of that TV it makes a huge difference.
Wow, that is a great idea but surely my family could not afford that and even my self.
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
You said you could not afford to sell it. I think you are expressing the reality of how many think. It is a pearl in your life. When you have found a pearl of greater value then it, you will be willing to sell it so you can obtain the greater pearl.
One thing I would like to draw attention to. The merchantman being a trader of goodly pearls did not go out to sell all his garbage. You cannot buy a pearl of great price with the value of garbage. But rather he went and sold all his other pearls to get the pearl of great price.
Sometimes we think that salvation is just to stop sinning; getting rid of garbage-what we know to be bad. But that is not what the kingdom of heaven is about. The kingdom of heaven is something that takes the selling of all our treasures/pearls to buy it.
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Re: Modern Christ
#74291
05/29/06 04:44 AM
05/29/06 04:44 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I think the parable of the pearl is saying that the owner found something of such great value that everything else paled in comparison to it.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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