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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74653
06/07/06 11:02 AM
06/07/06 11:02 AM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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What is the bible definition for justification? Where can we read that?
In His love
James S
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74654
06/07/06 05:25 PM
06/07/06 05:25 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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James, usually the Bible doesn't define terms. It's not a dictionary. You determine what a word means by how it's used.
I've suggested it means "reconciled" by showing how Paul used the word "justified" in the same sense as "reconciled" in a couple of different contexts. You may wish to take a look at the Scriptures I presented, and see if this makes sense to you.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74655
06/07/06 05:48 PM
06/07/06 05:48 PM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Really?
But I am still not satisfied with your view regarding justification, it lack something I need.
How do we get justified? Is it through law obedience? Is it through God's grace? Is it through faith? Or is it through all of them or a combination of it?
Is justification a gift, is it something we must strive, or combination of it?
In His love
James S
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74656
06/07/06 08:01 PM
06/07/06 08:01 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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James
Ive been reading a commentary on Romans written by John Stott. In the chapters 2-4 justification is covered in Romans. Quite an interesting book to read (both Romans and Stotts commentary) if you have any spare time for reading left in your daily planing. Though it wont give the SDA touch that you seem to be searching for..
/Thomas
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74657
06/07/06 09:40 PM
06/07/06 09:40 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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James, the Scripture I quoted in Collosians answers your question: Quote:
19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.
God makes peace through the bloof of His cross. This is how we are reconciled, or "justified" as Paul uses the term here:
Quote:
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:(Romans 5:1)
which is the same idea.
Now as to how justification, or reconciliation, is achieved, by faith or works, there is no doubt that justification, or reconciliation, is by faith alone. For example:
Quote:
1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74658
06/07/06 10:45 PM
06/07/06 10:45 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Quote:
Really?
But I am still not satisfied with your view regarding justification, it lack something I need.
How do we get justified? Is it through law obedience? Is it through God's grace? Is it through faith? Or is it through all of them or a combination of it?
Is justification a gift, is it something we must strive, or combination of it?
James S.. to be justified is not a doctrine, not a belief, not a teaching. It is an experience. The only place to get it is the Lord.
Seek audience with him, set all interference aside until you have gained audience with him, then listen and trust him. The rest will be healing balm to your soul. Faith does not exist between you and him before then.
It is not some theological thing, but rather the reconciliation of your heart and mind with him. That can’t happen theoretically, theologically or religiously. It can only happen in reality.
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74659
06/08/06 08:55 AM
06/08/06 08:55 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Quote:
James S.. to be justified is not a doctrine, not a belief, not a teaching. It is an experience. The only place to get it is the Lord.
Isnt it also cause for witnessing? Having this experience usually (or is it always?) gives a person motivation to witness. But maybe your point is that no amount of studying the witness records will ever come even close to having the actual experience.
/Thomas
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74660
06/08/06 02:30 PM
06/08/06 02:30 PM
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OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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How about justification as according to some one posted here long time ago:
“You cannot atone for your past sins, you cannot change your heart and make yourself holy” – SC, 51.
There is twofold nature of our need that needs to be solved, which needs two different solutions.
Justification is both forgiveness for sin and reclaiming from sin, it is not a single but a double work, to solve out those twofold nature of our need.
Firstly the Lord credits the righteousness of Christ to the sinner’s account so that he stands before God as if and as though he had never sinned at all. This solve the 1st problem, then God’s forgiveness as the outflow of redeeming love sweeps through his soul and cleanses out of him the old thorn bush nature and implants the new nature in its place. This take care of the 2nd problem and now the man is justified.
This is the initial justification,
It must be emphasized that the Lord does not do the one as a separate work from the other so far as a point of time is concerned. They are both done together and cannot be had apart from each other. The Lord will not forgive unless at the same time he can transform.
I am preparing for the 2nd or Final Justification.
In His love
James S
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74661
06/08/06 05:46 PM
06/08/06 05:46 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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James, please compare the quotes I've posted on this thread with your last post and I think you will agree that the conclusions you just posted are confirmed.
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Re: JUSTIFICATION
#74662
06/08/06 08:51 PM
06/08/06 08:51 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Justification is both forgiveness for sin and reclaiming from sin, it is not a single but a double work, to solve out those twofold nature of our need.
Justification is not different than pardon. This is made clear by Paul in Romans 4:
5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
For the Spirit of Prophecy fans among us:
Pardon and justification are one and the same thing. (FW 103)
The Lord will not forgive unless at the same time he can transform.
It’s not an issue of what the Lord can or will not do, but of what happens when one is forgiven. When one is forgiven, or justified, one is reconciled. To be reconciled is to be brought into harmony with God and His holy law, which cannot happen without one being transformed. The forgiveness (or pardon, or justification, or reconciliation) *is* the transformation.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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