In the Death, What causes it? thread I made a few statements on the spiritual nature of man.

Tom responded by quoting the SOP where she says that the brain nerves are the only medium of communication between us and God. He elaborated more:

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The brain is a physical thing, which makes it possible for man to think. The mind has to do with man's thought. The spirit of a subset of the mind. It is the part of the mind which has to do with spiritual things. There is nothing spiritual which does not involve the mind. That's what I believe. I think you would be hard-pressed to demonstrate this is not true. If it were true, we would have an arbitrary, mystery religion, wouldn't we? One where reason, choice and faith are by-passed? That's how it seems to me.

Regarding the EGW quote, it says that the only way heaven can communicate with man is through the brain. That seems to me that it would settle the issue. Whatever might be happening outside the brain is not communication. If the vision was a form of communication, she must have received it through the nerves of her brain, to use her words. This is sound logic, isn't it?

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I agree with Tom that the way we view the spirit of man will have a direct impact on whether our religion is balanced or leans on the one hand towards spiritualism and on the other towards humanistic materialism. So, I asked a question on the other thread that I'll post here again; Isn't it true that the spirit of man, (not his brain which is only the tool of thinking,) forms and guides his thoughts? How does that compare with Tom's statement that the spirit of man is a subset of the mind? What does scripture say about the spirit of man?

Below are some of the passages that talk about the spirit of man and some also deal with his physical and spiritual nature.

32:8 But [there is] a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. . . .
34:13 Who hath given him a charge over the earth? or who hath disposed the whole world?
34:14 If he set his heart upon man, [if] he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.
38:36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart? Job

20:27 The spirit of man [is] the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. . . .
20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so [do] stripes the inward parts of the belly. Proverbs

3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Eccl

12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. Zech

8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Romans

2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. . . .
2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. . . .
14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. . . .
15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. I Cor.

Some of those passages are quite interesting aren't they? Adventist theology interprets the spirit of man as being inseparably linked to the physical body and we have scriptural reasons to emphasize a close relationship between the two. But in general, I think we have gone too far in that direction. For instance, if it was true that the physical body and the spirit of man are inseparable, the scripture could not say that flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God, and the Bible would not refer to the spirit of man as a reality. Instead it would refer to the spiritual aspect of man. But the fact that man has a spirit is clearly taught in the above passages. As it says in Zechariah, God himself forms the spirit of man within him.

Does anyone want to venture to interpret Solomon's statement that the spirits of men go up at death but of animals go downwards to the earth? Or better still, this passage:

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20:27 The spirit of man [is] the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. . . .
20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so [do] stripes the inward parts of the belly. Proverbs

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No one is willing to venture an opinion so far? . . . Hmmm. I found the quote interesting because we generally think of the Holy Spirit as being the One who searches and convicts us of sin. Do you think the passage may be saying that the Spirit employs man's own spirit to enlighten a man about his true spiritual state? If so, what does that tell us about man's spirit, his conscience, his will, etc and how they interact with the Spirit of God to enlighten and transform the person?

I was expecting John B. to say something.

In the Hebrew, the word translated "spirit" (ruah I think) can be translated "spirit," "wind," or "breath" depending on the context. When it refers to the spirit returning to God, that's not a living entity, as non-SDA's believe (the same thing is said of animals; their "spirit" also returns to the Lord), but simply a poetic way of saying they're dead.

We know now that all of thought occurs in the brain. The ancient spoke of the "heart" of the "bowels" to refer to different aspects of thought. The "heart," for example, is the center of a man's thoughts and emotions, where he does his deepest thinking. The bowels refers to the unconscious mind.

The spirit, as used in the context, refers to the part of the mind which can appreciate spiritual things. I think this is clear. All communication between God and man occurs in the mind; without the brain all communication stops. I don't see what else the spirit (in the context of dealing with spiritual things) could be referring to.

So the topic ought to be renamed "what is the brain of a man?"?

Because the spirit is a subset of the mind? By the same logic being suggested, should the question be, "What is the upper torso of a man?"

So, you had expected John B. to say something!
And I have been waiting to see what you folks come up with.

20:27 The spirit of man [is] the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly. . . .
8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: Romans
2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The above scriptures along with those Mark presented, are very meaningful

I agree with Mark, to the state of things in regards to the understanding of ‘the spirit’ and ability to think in terms of spirit, even though it is the prevailing theme of the scriptures and salvation. But this is not only true of Adventists but of all of fallen mankind. I am finding it very difficult to express here, what is very simple, due to the web that has been woven.

God created man in his image, in the image of God created he them. As God has a spirit, so also man has a spirit. Our concept of God will directly affect our understanding of ourselves.

On the other hand the problem of the false doctrine (of the spirit being immortal), and the way some statements have been used, has made many Adventists to think that there is no spirit at all, and to make no difference between soul and spirit. Oftentimes, reducing man to the purely soulish life; physical life with mental activity as modern so called science is wont to profess.

Just because the spirit of man is not immortal, does not mean it does not exist, much less that we should be ignorant of it. On the other hand, the reality of sin has something to do with that concept, since man died spiritually and now the spirit lives by the flesh. However to think of the spirit in physical terms is entirely misleading, even as much as to think of the spirit as immortal, is.

As breath is meaningful to our physical life, and must be considered part of our physical life, so also is the spirit to spiritual life. Now if any man tries to quantify 'breath' physically, he will come up with just “air”; but air is not breath. So likewise if the spirit is tried to be physically identified, it will be misunderstood. Religious tendency is however disposed to think that whatever is not physical is immortal, and that is just not true as the issue of life and death; sin and salvation is spiritual and not physical.

As without breath there can be no physical life, so without spirit there can be no thought in the brain. Some have called it the inner or inmost life. The spirit also stands for our identity of person and thereby our very existence.

The spirit must be thought of spiritually, and this probably is another difficulty. What is spiritual thinking? Well, it is thinking in terms of the: thoughts and intents of the heart. The spirit is the heart from which the thoughts and intents proceed. When allowed, the spirit of the Lord lays bare what is in our spirit. That is why there is a division between the soul and the spirit. This is very vital in salvation. To speak of the soul is to speak of the resultant interaction of the spirit and the body. Where this division is not realized the understanding of spirit is not realized either.

For many ‘the heart’ means their seat of emotion, desire or feelings. That is simply so because their spirit is living off of the flesh. However, it is not the way God created man to be. Character and spirit is also not the same, though character reflects the spirit.

To speak of the spirit is to speak of the spirit of a person. To speak of the spirit of a person, is to speak of the person, not encumbered with physics. So the spirit is what we spiritually are, yet while being that what we are, we have the authority to change that which we are in the spirit.

The will and faith are two fundamental realizable aspects of spirit or heart. The soul on the other hand is that which we have become, not inclusive of the spirit. So then, do we begin to understand why it is necessary for the word of God to divide between the soul and the spirit, discerning the thoughts and intents of the heart? It is in the spirit where the new birth needs to occur and not in the soul. To endeavor to make the change in the soul is backwards; it is to endeavor to change the fruit, and not the root (the spirit). So much of religion is the works of the soul, rather than the work of the spirit. That is what Paul is trying to address in 1st Corinthians 13.

Well , I’ll stop here, and let you folks deal with this.

The Spirit of Prophecy speaks quite a number of times of God's creating a new life in the soul through the Holy Spirit. For example:

Like the wind, which is invisible, yet the effects of which are plainly seen and felt, is the Spirit of God in its work upon the human heart. That regenerating power, which no human eye can see, begets a new life in the soul; it creates a new being in the image of God. (FILB 55)

It seems to me that there is a definately a mystery involved here. All communication between man and heaven occurs in the mind, through the brain nerves, as EGW puts it. Faith, the will, originate in the brain. However man is not a purely physical being. There is more to man than the chemical activity that occurs in the brain. The will of a man, while housed in the brain and dependent upon it, controls the brain which houses it.

As I understand these things, man has the ability to perceive spiritual things because God created his mind to have this ability. I do not see the spirit of man as existing independently from his mind. If the mind of a man is dead, so is the spirit.

John B put words to my thoughts.