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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75094
06/11/06 11:47 PM
06/11/06 11:47 PM
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In an attempt to answer the question in my previous post, Sunday's study properly looks at why Christ came to this earth, which is to save sinners, which all of us are, therefore, Christ came to this earth to save all of us from the penalty of sin, which is the second death, the eternal death, from which there is no resurrection.
In light of this, what then would blasphemy against the Holy Ghost be?
Perhaps, another good question would also be, what is the purpose or function of the Holy Spirit in connection with Christ's purpose?
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75095
06/12/06 03:16 PM
06/12/06 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Really? Thats strange.. Good thing Ill be in the class to inform of the other option.
It's nothing new, I hope....  : just unliked by many Adventists. Have a closer look at the lesson text for this week: distancing oneself from God till effectively disconnecting oneself is the the given definition, but initial rejection of Christ on first hearing the gospel news is rightly rejected as an explanation.
For the rest of you: Isn't God allowed to refuse to pardon assertions that his Spirit's work with sinners is actually the Devil's work? What consequences, what penalties, are right for treason?
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75096
06/12/06 04:07 PM
06/12/06 04:07 PM
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Quote:
In an attempt to answer the question in my previous post, Sunday's study properly looks at why Christ came to this earth, which is to save sinners, which all of us are, therefore, Christ came to this earth to save all of us from the penalty of sin, which is the second death, the eternal death, from which there is no resurrection.
In light of this, what then would blasphemy against the Holy Ghost be?
Perhaps, another good question would also be, what is the purpose or function of the Holy Spirit in connection with Christ's purpose?
Christ saved mankind from its sinfulness and from the Devil's power over that sinfulness; the Spirit convicts the world of those truths and achievements.
It is practically possible to distance oneself from God till one doesn't want to hear him anymore, but that isn't even effectively blaspheming the Holy Spirit - that's just being obstinate about grace. The unforgiveable sin of blaspheming the Spirit is attributing its work to the Devil, isn't it?
Can grace not preclude forgiveness for such an assertion? - is it not the divine equivalent of treason down here?
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75099
06/12/06 11:03 PM
06/12/06 11:03 PM
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75100
06/13/06 05:05 AM
06/13/06 05:05 AM
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Quote:
The following is the memory text for this week's study:
Quote:
"Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: but he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation" (Mark 3: 28, 29).
What is this blasphemy against the Holy Ghost in which there isn't any forgiveness? I read two lines of thought here. Which one is it, or is it both?
Matthew 12:28 says: "But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you".
So, by whose spirit did Jesus cast out devils? By the Spirit of his Father? By his own Spirit? or by the spirit of a third god called "God the Holy Spirit"?
Today's lesson states: "However, by refusing to admit to Christ's divinity, and by actively opposing Him, these men had placed themselves in such a position that they were forced to explain His works on some other grounds than divine and hence assigned to Satan the works of God."
Now, who is really refusing to admit to Christ's divinity? Those who advocate the trinity doctrine or those who advocate the doctrine of the pioneers of the SDA church including Mrs. E. G. White?
Now, those who advocate the trinity doctrine state that Christ's divinity or divine person comes from himself and not from his Father because Christ in his divine person is NOT really the literal only begotten Son of his Father who is the only true God. Those who advocate the trinity doctrine say that Christ is 100% divine like the Father is 100% divine. They admit that the Father is 100% divine and is invisible to humans and is in every place all at the same time. But, they say that Christ is also 100% divine, but he is not like the Father and is not invisible and cannot be in every place all at the same time. So, then how can they claim that Christ in his divine person is 100% God just like the Father is 100% God?
Those who do NOT advocate the trinity doctrine also claim that Christ is 100% divine in his divine person and in his divine person he is invisible to humans and is every place all at the same time just like the Father because Christ is the literal only begotten Son of his Father in his divine person and he is what is known as the "Holy Spirit" or the "Comforter".
So, which of these two groups is really refusing to admit to Christ's divinity?
grw
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75103
06/13/06 01:55 PM
06/13/06 01:55 PM
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Muncie, IN
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Darius,
I am getting tired of these type of posts, and I don't think I am alone. I think others are also getting tired of these type of posts you are posting.
If you continue to show that you can't contribute better than this, we may need to remove your ability to post.
This isn't the first time I have sounded out a warning note, therefore, I hope you will take heed of yet another warning.
I think some here have placed you on their ingore posts list, which is the only reason why I haven't acted yet.
If I receive enough personal complaints about your posts, I will regretfully act.
And as the owner of this list it is your right to. This is the year 2006. Discussing what we continue to do cannot be better than trying to figure out why it is that what we are doing is ineffective. I am sorry you are offended by posts that are designed to get to the rest of the story. How is the world benefitted from Christians continually discussing the different ways in which they are wrong? This is not the first time that these topics are being discussed in SS. We keep going over old ground and making no progress. This is not the best use of the intelligence we were given by our Creator. Putting me on ignore or banning me again will not change reality. We can bask in our ignorance or break out of it. The choice is ours. In the meantime the world continues to suffer.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75104
06/13/06 04:58 PM
06/13/06 04:58 PM
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I copied this from Monday's study: Quote:
However, by refusing to admit Christ's divinity, and by actively opposing Him, these men had placed themselves in such a position that they were forced to explain His works on some other grounds than divine and, hence, assigned to Satan the work of God. They thereby closed their minds to the evidence of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit impresses truth upon the mind and heart (John 14:17, 16:13) and convicts of sin (John 16:8). But although God is long-suffering and merciful and not willing that any should perish (2 Pet. 3:9), His Spirit will not labor with the obdurate heart indefinitely (Gen. 6:3). If truth is persistently resisted and refused, the Spirit's promptings cease to be heard, and the soul is left in terrible darkness.
Wouldn't what I bolded in the above quote constitute the unpardonable sin, or as the Bible says, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit from which there isn't any forgiveness?
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75105
06/13/06 09:47 PM
06/13/06 09:47 PM
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Uhm, what about the bible? Quote:
Phi 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Phi 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phi 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus cast out devils by the Spirit of His Father becourse Jesus had laid down divine authority when being born a human. (Dont ask me how it is done, I just read that it says so here and therefore count it true.)
You are right, I have not the slightest idea what those books you mention says about anything. That I called your argument strawman is entierly due to how I find it in contrast with the bible. Which by the way is the main authority on any theological question (this so since we are even called to test the spirits by its word, so prophesy or vision are both subject to scripture.)
/Thomas
Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75106
06/14/06 01:19 AM
06/14/06 01:19 AM
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I can't figure out where I can start new posts so I will ask this question where it was prompted. I wonder how many here would put Christ on iggy if He should tell them stuff they don't like or in a manner of which they don't approve? As Thomas would say, this has been done throughout history.
Last edited by Darius; 06/14/06 01:55 AM.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75113
06/14/06 08:52 PM
06/14/06 08:52 PM
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Getting back to the topic, Tuesday's study says the following: Quote:
But there is one sin that is unpardonable and inevitably results in eternal death. When someone refuses to respond to the goodness of God, which is designed to lead unto repentance (Rom. 2:4), this continued refusal to accept God's overtures of grace will finally result in the commission of the unpardonable sin.
I would gather from the above quote that the writer feels that continued and persistent rejection of the Holy Spirit in this regard constitutes the unpardonable sin.
Tuesday's study goes on to say:
Quote:
The unpardonable sin, or the sin against the Holy Spirit, is persistent rejection of light, the persistent rejection of what Christ has done for us. This rejection inevitably blinds the spiritual eyes and hardens the rejecter's heart to the wooings of the Spirit, as the example of those leaders in Israel. Finally, there is utter darkness in the soul, and the person is eternally lost because he or she has ruined his or her soul's perceptivity to the promptings of the Spirit.
Placing one's self beyond the power of the Holy Spirit is "unpardonable" because we cannot even repent without the aid of the Spirit of God. God can't do anything for us unless He forces us, which He won't do. We have, through our own choices, cut ourselves off from salvation.
This makes sense to me as there doesn't seem to be any other way of committing the unpardonable sin.
I would then go on to say that the result of this rejection of the Holy Spirit is attributing to the devil the work or actions of the Holy Spirit which would in a sense validate the rejection or ignoring the work of the Holy Spirit.
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75116
06/16/06 11:56 PM
06/16/06 11:56 PM
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James, Let me try to answer your question with another question with Bible references from Thursday's study as quoted below: Quote:
If, however, the "unpardonable sin" is constant rejection of the Holy Spirit, why is someone who fears he or she has committed that sin, someone who clearly has not committed it? See also Ps. 51:1-4, Luke 5:8, 18:13.
As long as a person is concerned whether or not they have committed the unpardonable sin, then that person can be assured that they have not yet committed it.
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75119
06/17/06 01:01 AM
06/17/06 01:01 AM
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Thanks, Daryl, for keeping this topic alive, but the lesson text hasn't helped much, I fear...
Resisting the Spirit's approaches cannot be unforgiveable though it is unrepentant! An unrepentant course of action results in an absence of forgiveness and effectively unforgiven sins... but Mk 3:29 "He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness,..." Verse 30 explains why Jesus uttered the words of condemnation: "Because they said, "He hath an unclean spirit."
Quoting William Barclay on resisting the Holy Spirit - as supporting one's own interpretation - isn't sufficient proof. What of mentally and verbally slandering the Spirit as an unclean spirit??? Given that the Spirit convicts of sin, righteous and judgement, it takes a deliberate and antagonistic mentality to attribute that work to the Devil.
A lifelong build up may well be necessary, but blasphemy must be an action, and against the Spirit is it unforgiveable, is it not? That's what Luke 12:10 says most clearly, compared to Matt 12 and Mark 3.
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Re: Lesson Study #12 - The Sin Against The HOLY SPIRIT
#75122
06/18/06 01:07 AM
06/18/06 01:07 AM
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I agree with Barclay's comments. That makes perfect sense to me. In fact, even the words he used are very close to the words I would choose to use myself.
Jesus spoke of the same concept Barcley menioned many times. Here's one example:
Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."
Isaiah mentioned it too:
Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter. (Isa. 5:20)
It's not that God arbitrarily favors some over others, but that we perceive God according to our character. To the pure, God reveals Himself pure: to the froward (crooked), He reveals Himself froward. (Ps. 18).
If each time the Holy Spirit comes to us, we resist Him, eventually the "light" we have will be nothing by darkness, and the darkness light.
Another way of looking at it is that we have all fallen for Satan's counterfeiting of God. Satan presents himself of God, and is a master of doing so. Confusing his voice with God's is forgivable. However, if we confuse God's voice with Satan's, what can He do?
By attributing Jesus' work as that of the devil, this is effectively what Jesus' opposers were doing. There could have been no clearer indicationg than Jesus was doing God's work than the healing of demoniacs. Surely the people could not have helped but be impressed by the difference in demeanor in the victims before and after being healed. The Holy Spirit was also speaking to their hearts as to who Jesus was. To turn one's back on this is very dangerous, as it is turning one's back to God's Spirit, the only means be which He can reach us, in a very stark way.
God is love. The love of the Father and the Son is an attributable of every believer. The Word of God is the channel through which divine love is communicated to man. God's truth is the medium by which the intellect is reached. The Holy Spirit is given to the human agent who works in cooperation with divine agencies. It transforms mind and character, enabling man to endure as seeing Him who is invisible. Perfect love can be enjoyed only through the belief of the truth and the reception of the Holy Spirit.(Upward Look 104)
If we reject the work of the Holy Spirit's work of revealing truth to us, what can God do?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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