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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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Re: Lesson Study #2 - Judgment Must BEGIN
#76655
07/02/06 04:50 PM
07/02/06 04:50 PM
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I found the introductory to this week's study to be interesting in light of some other topics within MSDAOL.
Here it is quoted below:
"Oraffiti written on a wall by an Italian atheist reads: "There is no God—and Mary is His mother!" However funny, the point is important: As human beings, we are subjective creatures. However much we might try to be objective-to look at things honestly, fairly, logically, without preconceived notions—we inevitably bring our own ideas, culture, moods, and experiences into whatever subject we approach. Even the idea of not having a preconceived notion about something is, indeed, to have a preconceived notion about something.
This week, while realizing our inherent limitations, we're going to be as objective as we can as we look at what the Bible says about judgment. Let's forget for the moment about 1844, the pre-Advent judgment, Ellen White, Hiram Edson in the cornfield, etc. Instead, let's just let the Bible speak for itself on this important topic. And, as it does, let's see what answers it gives to the following questions: How are judgment and the gospel linked? What are the final results of judgment? Are Christians judged? What role do works play in judgment? When is the judgment?
Though none of the answers to these questions contains all that we need to know on the subject, woven together they form a nice tapestry that will enable us to grasp better the concept of judgment, regardless of whatever preconceptions we already have about it."
Well, what does the Bible say about judgment?
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Re: Lesson Study #2 - Judgment Must BEGIN
#76659
07/03/06 04:34 PM
07/03/06 04:34 PM
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SDA
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Active Member 2019
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Southwest USA
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1. "Let's forget for the moment about 1844, the pre-Advent judgment, Ellen White, Hiram Edson in the cornfield, etc. Instead, let's just let the Bible speak for itself on this important topic."
What? Are we supposed to assume that there are contradictions between them and the Bible?
2. "How are judgment and the gospel linked?"
The day of atonement (judgment) was, will be, the climax of the gospel.
3. "What are the final results of judgment?"
Paradise restored.
4. "Are Christians judged?"
Yes, of course. That's the best part of the gospel. Once Christians are closely examined it will be evident and obvious to everyone, including evil angels, that God is love, that His kingdom and character is holy, just, and good.
5. "What role do works play in judgment?"
They are the evidence that Jesus is the truth, that His ways are best, that all over ways are darkness.
6. "When is the judgment?"
It began in 1844 for the dead, and will include the living during the mark of the beast (sunday laws) crisis. In another sense judgment is a daily ongoing process. But "the" judgment, as it pertains to prophecy, began in 1844 and will end when probation closes.
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Re: Lesson Study #2 - Judgment Must BEGIN
#76662
07/03/06 11:10 PM
07/03/06 11:10 PM
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Lawrence, Kansas
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These are good questions. My answers follow.
1. "Let's forget for the moment about 1844, the pre-Advent judgment, Ellen White, Hiram Edson in the cornfield, etc. Instead, let's just let the Bible speak for itself on this important topic."
Skipped.
2. "How are judgment and the gospel linked?"
The judgment is primarily about God. Satan has accused God of being arbitrary, unfair, and selfish. He has suggested that His created beings do not need the law, that they would be better off disregarding it.
The Gospel is the Good News about God, that He is just like Jesus Christ. The judgment will show that this is true! God is not arbitrary, unfair, or selfish. The judgment will also show, in the history of those examined, what happens when God's law is disregarded. God gave His law as a hedge to protect us, and disgregarding it leads to suffering, misery, pain, and death.
Yet another thing the judgment will show is that at every moment in history God has been working single-mindedly to eliminate the sin problem as quickly as possible.
3. "What are the final results of judgment?"
God's character will have been revealed to be just as He has claimed it to be. God will be seen to have always been just like He revealed Himself to be in Jesus Christ.
4. "Are Christians judged?"
Christians are a part of the judgment. They show how God's grace works in those who respond to it. They are an important part in God's judgment because they show to good effect God's qualities of grace and mercy.
5. "What role do works play in judgment?"
The works reveal the character. The Christ-like characters the righteous development demonstrate that God's way of dealing with the sin problem is effective.
One would also imagine that other beings would be interested in seeing the characters of those who, having lived in a world of sin, will spend eternity with them. They will be interested in seeing evidence that these dudes can be trusted.
6. "When is the judgment?"
There are three "big" judgments. The investigative judgment demonstrates things ("things" being how God has worked throughout history) for the unfallen angels and unfallen worlds. The executive judgment shows the same things for the righteous. The final judgment shows the same things for Satan and those who have united themselves with his cause.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson Study #2 - Judgment Must BEGIN
#76663
07/04/06 01:53 AM
07/04/06 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
I looked up the words "the only begotten of the Father" from John 1:14 as well as "the only begotten Son of God" from John 3:18.
What are these words saying?
What do these words mean?
Could these words be referring to the only person born of a woman, whose human nature never came by the ordinary way of generation; it being a mere creation in the womb of the virgin, by the energy of the Holy Ghost?
Wouldn't this fit with the Word, and the Word being God in John 1:1 that became flesh in John 1:14 in which the words "the only begotten Son of God are explained?
John 1:1 took place "in the beginning". John 1:14 took place later probably about 4 B.C.
Could it not be possible for God the Father to begat a divine Son (as opposed to a human son) in his express image and who is exactly like him in every way?
John 1:1-2 is interesting, for in the Interlinear Bible which is a literal translation of the Received Text there is a word missing from the Greek to the English translation.
They left out the word "the" before the first and third use of the word "God" also the Greek word for the first and the third words for "God" are not the same as the second word "God".
Is it possible for God to have a Son? Yes. Read Prov. chapter 8 and you will find that Christ was brought forth from the Father before there were any foundations and that He the Son of God was His Fathers daily delight.
Go into the epistles and you will find that Christ inherited a name above all others.
Go into the Book of Revelation chapter 5 and you will find that the Son of God was also given, Honor, power and Glory etc. after He had taken the Book out of the Fathers Right Hand.
Read 1 Cor 8:6 and you will see that Paul taught that there is only one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.
Read Matthew 16 and you will find that the Father told Peter that Christ was "The Son of the Living God".
Read John 14 and you will find that Christ plainly states that God the Father dwelt in Him and that He, Christ did not do the miracles and speak the words but the Father that dwelt in Him did these things.
John 17 also points to the fact that Christ is the Son of God and not God.
The Second Commandment also tells us that we are to have no other Gods before the Almighty God.
Isaiah 45:5, 22 States that God looks around and see no other gods before Him.
1 John 5:1-6 also teaches us that if we believe that Christ is THE "Son of God" we can over come the world. Notice it does not state "God the Son"
1 John 5:7 cannot be used because it is a supplied text. However, it is easy to see that God and His Son and the Holy Spirit are all one when it comes to the plan of Salvation.
Read SOP Volume 1 chapter 1 "The Great Controversy" The fall of Satan. I am not talking about that set called conflict of the ages series! You need to read the SOP (little black books) and Sister White plainly shows that Christ is subordinate to God.
Peace and Grace
David
I will ask a question that I have asked just prior to this post (on a different thread), Is it possible for the founders of the SDA church to be members of the SDA church today? What do the official writings of the church claim?
The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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Re: Lesson Study #2 - Judgment Must BEGIN
#76665
07/05/06 01:43 AM
07/05/06 01:43 AM
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What do you mean we cannot use 1 John 5:7? It is in my KJV and does not say supplied text. It is not in italics. Where do you get that? Also, do you think that the Great Controversy that we have is not a correct version or something? What specifically in it do you not agree with? Like could you give page and paragraph....and maybe compare it to what is in your book? What makes you think that we cannot use the Conflict of the Ages series?? This is very distressing to me because if we cannot use the KJV and the Ellen White books that we have...what is there left? I would like some concrete evidence that there is something wrong with these books before I am going to stop believing what she has written! I grew up in reading her writings and I have not seen that there is a problem with them so far.
The quote 1 John 5:7 is a supplied text by the people who translated the KJV. You will notice many-supplied text in the Bible. In many cases there is no problem with these supplied words for they do not change the meaning of the verse, or verses that proceed or those that come before the supplied words in a given text. However, in this case the entire verse is supplied, it may be in your KJV but as stated in my prior post in the Received Text it is in ( ), which is the same as the “italics in or translation and this shows that it is supplied.
To compare the verses you would need to purchase a copy of the Received Text. It is called the “Interlinear Bible” Both the old and New Testaments in Hebrew, Greek and English. Some of the larger Bible stores should carry it. I know that the ABC in Collegedale TN use to carry them.
Do not miss understand me, we can and should use the KJV it is the best version that we have. The Holy Spirit used this Bible to bring up this church did it not?
All that I am saying is that it is not prefect. You should note that the founders did not use this verse to support the “trinity” doctrine. Also as I noted if one reads it they can easily see that all three God, Son and Holy Spirit work in unity towards the great plan of Salvation. This text in conjunction with the few that I lead out cannot nor does it prove the “trinity” theory, in fact it is just the opposite. Please also note that Sister White and the founders at times pointed out the “italicized” words as not being correct.
What is it that I disagree with? Read my other post where I posted the 1872 “Fundamental Principles”. The Founders did not believe in the “trinity” in fact they spoke very plainly against it as being a purely “catholic” doctrine. Also, the “catholic church” states that this doctrine of the “trinity” is the “FOUNDATION” of all their dogmas. You can find in it the thread about the 28 fundamental beliefs.
Sister White used the KJV for more that 90% of her quotes, as her son W. C. White stated Sister White before using the RV to quote from she would spend hours comparing the RV to the KJV and if there was no way that it changed the meaning she would use it.
Use the KJV I do. In fact I use both but I preach from the KJV.
Have you ever noticed the old writings where Sister White or others used the term little “companies” or the “ones”? It comes from the Interlinear (Received Text) Revelation 14:12 “Here is the patients of the Saints, here are the ones keeping the Commands of God and the Faith of Jesus”
Peace and Grace
David
The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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Re: Lesson Study #2 - Judgment Must BEGIN
#76672
07/08/06 01:32 PM
07/08/06 01:32 PM
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Posts: 104
Nevada
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So, do we believe in the Word as God apart from another God which the Word was with Him since the beginning?
With this view, does we transgress the 1st commandment?
If yes, no wonder, considering if it is really originated to a Catholic doctrine, which by following their doctrines we would transgressed also the 2nd and 4th commandments.
In His love
James S
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, kept all the ten commandments including the 1st, 2nd, and 4th and left us an example to follow. Which God did Jesus Christ worship?
1) God the Father who Jesus says is the only true God?
2) God the Son as defined by the General Conference SDA church?
3) God the Holy Spirit as defined by the General Conference SDA church?
4) A unity of three co-eternal persons as defined in the 28 fundamental beliefs of the General Conference Seventh-day Adventist Church?
Who is the God of Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God?
grw
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Re: Lesson Study #2 - Judgment Must BEGIN
#76673
07/08/06 02:14 PM
07/08/06 02:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 149
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Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, kept all the ten commandments including the 1st, 2nd, and 4th and left us an example to follow. Which God did Jesus Christ worship?
1) God the Father who Jesus says is the only true God?
2) God the Son as defined by the General Conference SDA church?
3) God the Holy Spirit as defined by the General Conference SDA church?
4) A unity of three co-eternal persons as defined in the 28 fundamental beliefs of the General Conference Seventh-day Adventist Church?
Who is the God of Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God?
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grw
GRW;
I like your questions.
I do not know how many people have studied Proverbs chapter 8:22-32. If someone has then how does the “trinity” apply?
In Revelation 2:12 who is the God of Christ? If Christ is God then why does he have a God?
In Revelation 5:1 who is sitting on the Throne? If it is the “triune god” then, who takes the book from “him (singular not triune)”who sits on the throne? Thought, how many arms does this chair have 2 or 6?
In the Ministry Magazine 10/1993 we find that the founders cannot be members of the SDA church today because they cannot hold to the 2, 4 and 5 of the 27 (then it was 27) fundamental beliefs? Why is this? Could there be a difference in, which is taught today? We know that the Holy Spirit brought this church up and taught the founders. So what changed?
As Paul taught, as did Christ there is only one God and that is the Father, the Father of the only begotten Son.
That text John 1:1-2 is held on to by many “triune god” believers along with 1 John 5:7, as the bases for the “triune god” theory. While they over look John 14 and John 17 and a host of other texts that point to there being One God the Father. Maybe they have a bad understanding of these verses.
They think that since God said let “us” make man in our image that means that there is more than one God. Cannot Christ be in the image of His father? And if so then would not the Father be correct in saying “ let us make man in our image”? And then it goes on to say that God made man in His image and the “Him” is very singular is it not?
One other point, the “triune god” destroys the Father and Son relationship that exists between God and His Son and puts them as the same person some how in these three gods in one.
To anyone; where in the Bible (KJV) does it ever teach us that the Holy Spirit is God or that we are to pray to the Holy Spirit? One text that it states it is God or one text were we are to pray to it. If there is more than one text that is good also. But find one text at least.
That’s all for now.
Peace and Grace
The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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Re: Lesson Study #2 - Judgment Must BEGIN
#76676
07/08/06 09:39 PM
07/08/06 09:39 PM
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Tuesday's study is titled, House of God.
A few questions are asked there.
"But what about the church?
What about those who have professed the name of Jesus and, from all outward appearances, are living the Christian life in sincerity and faithfulness?
Are they, too, judged?"
1 Peter 4:17 says, "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"
The Judgment must begin at the house of God.
Why do Christians need to be judged?
Didn't Christ's death take care of the need of judgment for those who believe on Him?
In answer to my own questions here, the lesson draws our attention to Matthew 7:21-23 which says:
Matthew 7:21-23 (King James Version)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
From the above text, Christ says that not all professing Christians will enter into the kingdom of heaven, thus the reason for judgment beginning at the house of God, or amongst professing Christians.
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Re: Lesson Study #2 - Judgment Must BEGIN
#76677
07/09/06 01:50 AM
07/09/06 01:50 AM
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Quote:
kubuli
We are not taought to pray to the Holy Spirit. We are taught to ask FOR the Holy Spirit. So I cannot ask him.
I am assuming you never pray, "Dear Jesus" since we are only taught to pray to the Father.
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Re: Lesson Study #2 - Judgment Must BEGIN
#76678
07/09/06 03:17 AM
07/09/06 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
kubuli
We are not taought to pray to the Holy Spirit. We are taught to ask FOR the Holy Spirit. So I cannot ask him.
I am assuming you never pray, "Dear Jesus" since we are only taught to pray to the Father.
Daruis,
Your tongue is as forked as satans.
You cannot answer any question put to you.
You keep trying to redirect and do a charlatan’s trick of misdirection.
Again, the questions to you are thus, “can you give scripture that states the Holy Spirit is God? Where in the scriptures are we taught to pray to the Holy Spirit?
I will now add yet another since you did make a comment on it after all.
Where in the scriptures does it teach to pray to Christ? I know where Christ taught us to pray to the Father. Maybe you do not know this prayer? It begins “Our Father”.
I will yet again answer your question
“I am assuming you never pray, "Dear Jesus" since we are only taught to pray to the Father.”
That is correct I only pray to the One True God, and I do this asking for the Holy Spirit and I do this through Jesus Christ and by Jesus Christ. For no man can come unto the Father except by Jesus Christ.
Come on answer the questions with a plain thus saith the Lord.
Peace and Grace
David
The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall.
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