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Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST #80215
10/22/06 02:49 PM
10/22/06 02:49 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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It's time to get into this week's study, which you can access at the following link:

http://www.ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/06d/less04.html

Let this new discussion now also begin.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80219
10/22/06 04:34 PM
10/22/06 04:34 PM
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This lesson is one of the key issues in understanding salvation.

The evolutionist's theories -- including the theistic evolution theory which is gaining ever more acceptance by Christians, even within Adventism, which believes God created through guided evolutionary processes, totally destroys the concept of the origin of sin.

In theistic evolution there was no paradise lost, just God gradually shaping the world through evolving principles till finally a creature reached the point where God placed within him a soul and mankind made a transition from being a mere "animal" to be human.

All this of course does away with the concept of "satan" and the "fall" and even "sin", and simply shows mankind being evolved more and more into the "superhuman" level.

In this theory there is no such thing as "sin" only a lack of fuller development.

It does away with the need for the cross to save us from sin, and talks of the cross as only an "influence" to catapult mankind to a higher level of evolution.

I'm glad these lessons are being presented.
We need the clear, simple truth re-affirmed over and over.
For without the foundation of a perfect creation, by our POWERFUL GOD Who speaks and it is done. Without the true realization of the fall and the origin of sin, the whole gospel falls into falsehoods.

Last edited by dedication; 10/22/06 05:37 PM.
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: dedication] #80223
10/22/06 08:36 PM
10/22/06 08:36 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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With what dedication posted in mind, the whole Bible would become a falsehood.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80225
10/22/06 08:42 PM
10/22/06 08:42 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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The Memory Text is a key text to this week's study:

Quote:

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel" (Genesis 3:15).

From Sunday's study, in Genesis 3 a new element comes into the picture, that new element being a seemingly talking serpent, which we know was really the devil seemingly speaking through the serpent.

How do you suppose the devil accomplished this speaking through a serpent?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80237
10/23/06 03:42 AM
10/23/06 03:42 AM
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"The serpent was then one of the wisest and most beautiful creatures on the earth. It had wings, and while flying through the air presented an appearance of dazzling brightness, having the color and brilliancy of burnished gold. Resting in the rich-laden branches of the forbidden tree and regaling itself with the delicious fruit, it was an object to arrest the attention and delight the eye of the beholder. Thus in the garden of peace lurked the destroyer, watching for his prey." {PP 53.4}


It's not hard feat for an angel to speak through another.
You may recall that an angel spoke through a donkey to Balaam as well.

Anyone who has heard of channellors knows that these people allow their voice box to be used by demons. Their voices change, and someone else speaks through them.

We have accounts in the Bible of demons speaking through people.
You will notice -- even though the people didn't know who Jesus was, these demons knew exactly who He was --
Mark 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
1:25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him.


But back to Eve --

"The fruit was very beautiful, and Eve questioned with herself why God had withheld it from them. Now was the tempter's opportunity. As if he were able to discern the workings of her mind, he addressed her: "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Eve was surprised and startled as she thus seemed to hear the echo of her thoughts. But the serpent continued, in a musical voice, with subtle praise of her surpassing loveliness; and his words were not displeasing. Instead of fleeing from the spot she lingered wonderingly to hear a serpent speak. Had she been addressed by a being like the angels, her fears would have been excited; but she had no thought that the fascinating serpent could become the medium of the fallen foe. {PP 53.5}

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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80240
10/23/06 04:26 AM
10/23/06 04:26 AM
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Referring to the post on theistic evolution --
Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
With what dedication posted in mind, the whole Bible would become a falsehood.



Yes, that's true, I agree
-- so how is it that so many Christians, including Adventists, are accepting theistic evolution and thinking they have found the perfect answer to combine the Bible and science?


I wish this were just some wayout problem -- but it isn't, it is a very present problem even in our own schools where we send our young people



This next part was written by someone the critics herald as the "rejected gospel reformer" to the Adventist church -- Des Ford. In fact it's on a website entitled "Adventist Reform"

But notice what HE TEACHES about creation!
And i hear this kind of stuff too often.
How can someone be called a great "gospel preacher" and yet not believe in the literal creation -- with it's fall -- account?

Quote:
"TIME TO FACE THE FACTS

When Adventist scientists were polled in 1994, more than half rejected the literal reading of Genesis 1. One third denied that the geological strata and its fossils can be explained by Noah's Flood; and almost one in five assented to theistic evolution. See Darwinism comes to America, Ronald Numbers, Harvard University Press, p. 109.

Probably most Adventist scientists versed in geology, can be classified as progressive creationists, believing in God's creative interventions over long eras of time. But it is certain that most well-read Adventists have moved well beyond George McCready Price. When William Jennings Bryant cited Price as a respected scientist at the famous Tenessee Scopes trial, Darrow responded: "You mention Price because he is the only human being in the world so far as you know who signs his name as a geologist who believes like you do. Every scientist in this country knows that he is a mountebank, a pretender, and not a geologist at all."

There are two main barriers, which have led to the church's unpaid debt to science and its own scientists. On the part of leadership, it is the fear of confessing that we have been wrong. The smaller the group, the greater the felt necessity of infallibility. Second, like all other people we are shackled by cognitive dissonance. That is to say, we all carry a sieve to separate from our minds all that we hear or read that doesn't fit with our preconceptions. The human mind typically functions in terms of comfortable grooves of thought. But real truth shocks this tendency. It is a realistic immoveable rock upon which our comfortable theories are often shattered. Much of reality to all of us is a vast unknown.

Are we then to ignore Genesis 1:26, 27 about the creation of our first parents and adopt the theory of natural selection? Stephen Jay Gould, paleontologist of Harvard, recently deceased, said that Darwinism was dead. Many other scientists have agreed. But Gould's theory of punctuated equilibrium, his substitute for natural selection, has also been punctured. It has not worn well. Ellen White wrote long ago that "God's created works are just as mysterious as God himself." That wise and good woman also told us that the Bible was given for practical purposes and that, like Jesus, it is a combination of the human and the divine. If we take her seriously we will also recognize that her writings are not meant to set forth science, though they may help us to cease unnecessary warring against genuine truth discovered by scientific research.


Nothing like praising the Bible and EGW, while subtle inserting the deflating pin into them to remove them as any authoritive source concerning our origins.

I agree theistic evolution destroys the message of the whole Bible -- so how can so many Christians embrace it as the wonderful solution to unite science and the Bible?



Last edited by dedication; 10/23/06 05:03 AM.
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: dedication] #80243
10/23/06 08:05 AM
10/23/06 08:05 AM
Tom  Offline
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Daryl, you're asking how Satan was able to speak through a serpent? If so, we know from the SOP that the serpent was originally a bird, if I remember correctly. Some birds, such as parrots and others, are able to mimic human sounds, so I suppose the bird Satan took possession of was able to do the same thing. This is just speculation, of course, but considering all that Satan is capable of doing, this doesn't seem that it would be nearly as difficult as many other things he's done.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Tom] #80255
10/23/06 04:03 PM
10/23/06 04:03 PM
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One of the best debates I've known about and actually heard live recently is published on DVD by http://www.creationresearch.net of Australia, entitled: Is evolution compatible with the Christian faith?

A creationist and Christian geologist against an Anglican Canon (a senior theologian), at Liverpool Cathedral, last year some time.

I've emailed the editor of our Geoscience Research Institute journal, Origins, in Loma Linda, and she confirmed that all geologists there are young earth creationists. It appears indeed that the geologists in our school science classes are not as unanimous. My pastor has informed me - after the last Faith-Science conference (early 05) - that it is theologians in our midst who are more inclined to theistic evolution....Who's not doing enough homework??!

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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Colin] #80257
10/23/06 07:41 PM
10/23/06 07:41 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Interesting stuff being posted here.

While reading this, another question came to my mind.

Why did God allow the devil to possess the serpent and speak through the serpent, seeing that the serpent itself was part of God's perfect creation that He said was very, very good?

I realize that we may not be able to answer this question until sometime after the 2nd Coming.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80258
10/23/06 07:47 PM
10/23/06 07:47 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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I could be wrong, however, it seems to me that the author in Sunday's study is saying that the devil appeared in the form of one of God's perfectly created animals, namely the serpent.

Would you agree with the author, if that is what the author is actually saying?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80272
10/24/06 03:27 AM
10/24/06 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
I could be wrong, however, it seems to me that the author in Sunday's study is saying that the devil appeared in the form of one of God's perfectly created animals, namely the serpent.


Possibly,
one of spiritualism tactics is for the fallen angels to appear in the form of someone other then themselves. -- a deceased loved one, mary, or other apparitions, and finally satan will personate Christ himself! --

so it is possible.


I often wonder why was the snake cursed -- it didn't seem to be its fault it was used.

Then I thought maybe it's for our benefit -- to help us understand some things.

The serpent was not a bird, but a flying reptile, of dazzling colors and brilliance. EGW says it was one of the most beautiful creatures.

From geological sources it appears there were still flying reptiles for some time prior to the flood. (Which evolutionists sieze upon in their attempts to prove their theory). But then they disappeared from real life and remained only in legends, as memory of their existance faded.

I think God used the serpent as an object lesson to help people understand the reality of Satan.
A once proud, dazzling and beautiful creature, the highest of the angels, yet who got involved in sin and was cast down -- down -- .

The enmity most people have towards snakes is sometimes hard to understand for they are still beautifully decorated with color and patterns, but the way they slither over the ground gives people the creepy crawlies. And isn't that just like satan who now slithers about seeking to hypnotize and devour? -- or wrap us up in the coils of sin till all spiritual life is squeezed out of us, -- or bite us with his poisons of philosophy and worldly reasoning and deceitfulness of sin to kill the seeds of truth and render us spiritaully dead.

The enmity one feels toward snakes should be many times greater against the one they symbolize.

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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: dedication] #80280
10/24/06 06:29 AM
10/24/06 06:29 AM
asygo  Offline
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Quote:
The appearance of the deceiving serpent implies a whole other scenario not revealed in the first two chapters of Genesis. (It does hint at it though. Where?)


What "other scenario" is this talking about? I don't get it.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: asygo] #80281
10/24/06 06:36 AM
10/24/06 06:36 AM
asygo  Offline
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Quote:
The enmity that exists in the heart against evil has no natural existence, but is an enmity that has been created through the agency of the Holy Spirit. ... The natural man is in transgression, and his nature is in harmony with that of the first transgressor. There is no natural enmity between fallen men and fallen angels; both are partakers of the same spirit through indulgence in evil. {ST, June 11, 1894 par. 4}


What does this tell us of the extent of the damage to humanity? Does this give us any insights about what we need to be reconciled to God?


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: asygo] #80290
10/24/06 02:28 PM
10/24/06 02:28 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Monday's study is a warning to us about deception today.

Quote:

Satan started out by mixing truth and error; once the bait was taken, he resorted to full-fledged error, blatantly contradicting God's explicit command. How often things work like that even today. Someone starts out with a doctrine, a teaching, that contains both truth and error but, later, when taken to its logical conclusion, it winds up as pure error. How crucial that we always be on our guard!

We see the same thing happening today; truth being mixed with error, and unfortunately accepted as truth.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: asygo] #80292
10/24/06 02:38 PM
10/24/06 02:38 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Originally Posted By: asygo
Quote:
The appearance of the deceiving serpent implies a whole other scenario not revealed in the first two chapters of Genesis. (It does hint at it though. Where?)


What "other scenario" is this talking about? I don't get it.

Here is the whole paragraph of the above quote from Sunday's study:

Quote:

What this shows is how important it is for us to use the whole Bible in order to understand truth. The appearance of the deceiving serpent implies a whole other scenario not revealed in the first two chapters of Genesis. (It does hint at it though. Where?) To understand better what was going on, people needed more revelation. In time, God provided it.

I think it is saying that later on in the Bible, we learn more about the deceitful works of the devil. One such text from Sunday's study is:

Quote:

2 Corinthians 11:3 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain


3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The other texts there will also give further insight to the insidious deceptive works of the devil.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80312
10/24/06 09:08 PM
10/24/06 09:08 PM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
We see the same thing happening today; truth being mixed with error, and unfortunately accepted as truth.


We should also note that the truth/error mixture is not confined to "new" ideas. It is possible that the things we have been taught for [FILL IN THE BLANK] years was a mixture of truth and error.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: asygo] #80329
10/25/06 02:20 PM
10/25/06 02:20 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Still about the serpent:

"Satan, in the form of a serpent, conversed with Eve. The serpent had not the power of speech, but Satan used him as a medium. It was Satan that spoke, not the serpent. Eve was deceived, and thought it was the serpent. This serpent was a very beautiful creature with wings; and while flying through the air his appearance was very bright, resembling the color of burnished gold. He did not go upon the ground, but went from place to place through the air, and ate fruit like man." {3SG 39.2}

"He approached Eve, not in the form of an angel, but as a serpent, subtle, cunning, and deceitful. With a voice that appeared to proceed from the serpent, he spoke to her, and his conversation was like the words which today wise and wicked angels speak thru various agencies. As Eve listened, the warnings that God had given faded from her mind. She yielded to the temptation, and as she tempted Adam he also forgot God's warnings. He believed the words of the enemy of God." {ST, May 29, 1901 par. 2}

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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Rosangela] #80334
10/25/06 03:59 PM
10/25/06 03:59 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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I think the other important words in that quote is in the form of a serpent.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Rosangela] #80342
10/26/06 12:15 AM
10/26/06 12:15 AM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
"as she tempted Adam he also forgot God's warnings. He believed the words of the enemy of God." {ST, May 29, 1901 par. 2}


I find her use of "forgot" interesting. Here's a more familiar narrative: "He resolved to share her fate; if she must die, he would die with her. After all, he reasoned, might not the words of the wise serpent be true? Eve was before him, as beautiful and apparently as innocent as before this act of disobedience. She expressed greater love for him than before. No sign of death appeared in her, and he decided to brave the consequences. He seized the fruit and quickly ate." {PP 56.2}

It seems that she used "forgot" in an unusual way.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: asygo] #80362
10/26/06 08:52 PM
10/26/06 08:52 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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From Tuesday's study comes this interesting quote:

Quote:

In the fulfillment of the serpent's promise, the eyes of Adam and Eve were opened, but their dream of enlightenment turned into a nightmare. This, the first of countless subsequent satanic schemes, demonstrates that the devil's promises of precious gold are delivered only in the form of tinsel. Deprived of the glory of holiness, burdened by the sense of guilt, their physical nakedness revealed in a consciousness of inner nakedness, the first pair sought to hide from God and to fashion their own covering.


What were the consequences of their disobedience, the immediate results of the Fall?

Tuesday's study, in this reformatted quote, answers this question.

Quote:

Look at the immediate results of the Fall.

First, alienation arose between Adam and Eve (Gen. 3:7);

then between them and God (vs. 8);

nature itself suddenly turned more hostile (vss. 16-18);

the relationship between Adam and Eve changed even more so (vs. 16);

there was the reality of death (vs. 19);

there was a change in how humanity related to toil (vs. 19);

and Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden (vss. 23, 24).

If only they could have seen in advance the consequences of their actions!


If it were not for Genesis 3:15 then all would be hopeless for the human race.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80394
10/27/06 08:00 PM
10/27/06 08:00 PM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
What were the consequences of their disobedience, the immediate results of the Fall?


Of all the consequences of sin, I think the worst is alienation from God. The SOP gives more details on what this means.

Quote:
But should they once yield to temptation, their nature would become so depraved that in themselves they would have no power and no disposition to resist Satan. {PP 53.2}

But they were told that their nature had become depraved by sin; they had lessened their strength to resist evil and had opened the way for Satan to gain more ready access to them. In their innocence they had yielded to temptation; and now, in a state of conscious guilt, they would have less power to maintain their integrity. {PP 61.4}

When man transgressed the divine law, his nature became evil, and he was in harmony, and not at variance, with Satan. There exists naturally no enmity between sinful man and the originator of sin. Both became evil through apostasy. {GC 505.2}


It is our natural harmony with Satan and natural enmity to God that causes much of our problems. That's why conversion - a radical transformation - is crucial. Without it, our fate is identical to Satan's - a life of slavery to self, eventually ending in non-existence.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80395
10/27/06 08:57 PM
10/27/06 08:57 PM
asygo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
What were the consequences of their disobedience, the immediate results of the Fall?


Here's another result that may be of interest to those involved in Women's Rights/Equality issues.

Quote:
In the creation God had made her the equal of Adam. Had they remained obedient to God--in harmony with His great law of love--they would ever have been in harmony with each other; but sin had brought discord, and now their union could be maintained and harmony preserved only by submission on the part of the one or the other. {PP 58.3}


It seems like the submission of the woman to the man was not required before the Fall. If that's the case, "Wives, submit to your husbands" is valid only after sin.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: asygo] #80396
10/27/06 09:30 PM
10/27/06 09:30 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Wasn't Eve referred to as Adam's helper?

Quote:

Gen. 2:20 And Adam gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every animal of the field. But there was not found a suitable helper for Adam.

Even though they were equal before the Fall, Eve's function was to be Adam's helper.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80399
10/28/06 01:21 AM
10/28/06 01:21 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline
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From the Tuesday lesson.

Quote.
Look at the immediate results of the Fall. First, alienation arose between Adam and Eve (Gen. 3:7); then between them and God (vs. 8); nature itself suddenly turned more hostile (vss. 16-18); the relationship between Adam and Eve changed even more so (vs. 16); there was the reality of death (vs. 19); there was a change in how humanity related to toil (vs. 19); and Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden (vss. 23, 24). If only they could have seen in advance the consequences of their actions!
Unquote.

So, Adam and Eve didn’t know the consequences of their choice, of their rebellion.
This means they didn’t understand God’s warning that if they ate the forbidden fruit, they would die. God didn’t give them any clue of what “dead” is, and allow them to find it out them selves with the risk and consequences revealed only after they transgress his command.

Is this fair? If yes, why? If not, why?

In His love

James S

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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: James Saptenno] #80400
10/28/06 01:31 AM
10/28/06 01:31 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Of course, I can't see Adam and Eve not knowing what death was. Afterall it was the opposite of life, the cessation of life.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80401
10/28/06 01:36 AM
10/28/06 01:36 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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If it weren't for the foreknowledge of God, He wouldn't have known experientially what death was either.

But, as I just said, death is the opposite of life, therefore, if Adam and Eve knew what life was experientially, then they shouldn't have any problem imagining themselves lying on the ground with no more life in them.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: James Saptenno] #80408
10/28/06 01:51 PM
10/28/06 01:51 PM
asygo  Offline
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California, USA
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno
Quote:
If only they could have seen in advance the consequences of their actions!


So, Adam and Eve didn’t know the consequences of their choice, of their rebellion.
This means they didn’t understand God’s warning that if they ate the forbidden fruit, they would die. God didn’t give them any clue of what “dead” is, and allow them to find it out them selves with the risk and consequences revealed only after they transgress his command.


Actually, inspiration is clear that they were told what the consequences would be, and how to avoid falling in the first place.

Quote:
The angels warned them to be on their guard against the devices of Satan, for his efforts to ensnare them would be unwearied. While they were obedient to God the evil one could not harm them; for, if need be, every angel in heaven would be sent to their help. If they steadfastly repelled his first insinuations, they would be as secure as the heavenly messengers. But should they once yield to temptation, their nature would become so depraved that in themselves they would have no power and no disposition to resist Satan. {PP 53.2}

Holy angels often visited the garden, and gave instruction to Adam and Eve concerning their employment and also taught them concerning the rebellion and fall of Satan. The angels warned them of Satan and cautioned them not to separate from each other in their employment, for they might be brought in contact with this fallen foe. The angels also enjoined upon them to follow closely the directions God had given them, for in perfect obedience only were they safe. Then this fallen foe could have no power over them. {EW 147.1}


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: asygo] #80431
10/28/06 11:01 PM
10/28/06 11:01 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Posts: 25,123
Nova Scotia, Canada
Yes, Adam and Eve were truly warned.

Eve, without realizing it, left Adam's side while working in the Garden of Eden.

Upon realizing this, however, she mistakenly thought she could handle it.

Why though did she end up at the forbidden tree?

Why did she place herself at the only place where the devil could communicate with her?

Why do we end up in where we can also be tempted?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Lesson Study #4 - Paradise LOST [Re: Daryl] #80518
10/31/06 03:33 PM
10/31/06 03:33 PM
asygo  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Daryl Fawcett
Why did she place herself at the only place where the devil could communicate with her?

Why do we end up in where we can also be tempted?


Your statement sums up the answer well: she mistakenly thought she could handle it. We think we can safely walk the edge of the cliff without falling.

Another factor is that we often fool ourselves into believing Satan's lie: disobey and live. We think falling off the cliff is not as fatal as it really is.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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