Questions from MM:

But what about all those people who lived 4,000 years before Jesus revealed all the truths you listed? What was their knowledge base, their source of victory? You say there are many things that motivate people to love and trust God, that the death of Jesus on cross is just one of them. Was it possible, based on the truths revealed before Jesus died on the cross, for people to “work out [their] own salvation”? If so, then why did Jesus have to die? If not, then why did Jesus wait 4,000 years?

The short history behind the questions:

TE: Only He who knew God best, being at the Father's side, could show us what God is really like. We are healed, reconciled, when we believe the truth which Christ came to reveal.

MM: But what about all those people who lived 4,000 years before Jesus revealed all the truths you listed? What was their knowledge base, their source of victory? You say there are many things that motivate people to love and trust God, that the death of Jesus on cross is just one of them. Was it possible, based on the truths revealed before Jesus died on the cross, for people to “work out [their] own salvation”? If so, then why did Jesus have to die? If not, then why did Jesus wait 4,000 years?

TE: Jesus died because He took our nature, lived amongst us, and bore our sins. According to the Spirit of Prophecy, the whole purpose of his earthly mission was the revelation of God, in order to set us right with Him.

EGW: He was pictured as one who could take pleasure in the sufferings of his creatures. The very attributes that belonged to the character of Satan, the evil one represented as belonging to the character of God. Jesus came to teach men of the Father, to correctly represent him before the fallen children of earth. Angels could not fully portray the character of God, but Christ, who was a living impersonation of God, could not fail to accomplish the work. The only way in which he could set and keep men right was to make himself visible and familiar to their eyes. That men might have salvation he came directly to man, and became a partaker of his nature.(ST 1/20/90)

TE: This [quote] makes clear that Christ had to come in order to correctly represent God before man. This is "the only way" in which He could "set and keep men right." He had to make Himself visible and familiar to their eyes.

MM: Why, then, did God wait 4,000 years to the one and only thing that could set and keep men right? Is it possible that there is a legal aspect that made it necessary for God to wait?

MM: Why, then, did God wait 4,000 years to the one and only thing that could set and keep men right? Is it possible that there is a legal aspect that made it necessary for God to wait?

No, that's not possible, because there's no reason why a death 4,000 years after Eden would be any more effecacious than a death at some other point in time.

Regarding why God waited, I wrote about this in quite a lot of detail. You didn't respond at all to what I wrote. You just reasked the same questions many, many times. If you wish to have a dialog, a conversation, it's necessary that you not just ask questions, but that you answer them as well, and that you acknowledge when questions have been answered.

You're asking good questions, MM, and I'm happy to continue discussing this with you, but I'd like to you to respond to my post where I addressed these questions.

Okay, Tom, here are the questions you have asked on this thread so far:

TE: The Bible says that Jesus came in the fullness of time. 1) What does that mean? 2) Is it just an arbitrary time that God decided? 3) Or was there some reason why Christ came when He did? 4) Would His coming have been as effective had it been earlier? 5) If not, why not?

1. The “time” refers to the 70 week prophecy.

2. God does nothing arbitrarily, therefore, no, it wasn’t just a date God pulled out of a hat.

3. The chapter entitled “The Fullness of the Time” in the DA addresses this question nicely. I posted an extract from it on page one.

4. I doubt it. God managed human history, the affairs of mankind and nations, in a way that made the day Jesus was incarnated the only right one.

5. See 4.

TE: 6) We see that God did not immediately send Christ, but only after several millenia. First God with and through Israel. Why?

6. Please rephrase this question. Thank you.

Here are the observations you, Tom, have made so far in this thread:

1. [O]ne question God wished to answer is what would happen is a people were to "worship" God with the intention of avoiding bad consequences they perceive would happen to them if they didn't. In other words, a "worship" inspired by fear.

MM: Do you mean to say God wanted the onlooking universe to see how wrong worshipping Him out of fear is?

2. We know that at first the angels were confused as to the principles of God's government. They cried out for vengeance. They wanted God to destroy His enemies whenever they dared to defy Him.

MM: Please post a quote confirming this point. Thank you.

3. The Jews demonstrated what happens when one "worships" God from a wrong motive, for example, the motive of fear.

MM: How does this relate to your title question?

4. Had God allowed Satan to reap the result of his sin, he would have died, but the reason for his death would not have been clear. It would have appeared that it was due to something God was doing to Satan as opposed to what it really was, the result of his sin. This misunderstanding of God would have created an evil seed of doubt, and the sin problem would not have been cured. Indeed, things would have become worse.

MM: If the holy angels were begging for vengeance and the destruction of God’s enemies why would they fear God if He had immediately punished and destroyed the evil angels?

5. So the reason, or a reason, that Christ did not come immediately upon Adam's sin was that there were lessons that needed to learn, which agrees with what you said. Had He come too soon, the problem of sin would not have been cured. The purpose for Christ's coming was to do away with sin, so the timing had to be right, so the purpose for which He came could be accomplished.

MM: How did delaying the punishment and destruction of evil angels help Adam with his sin problem? He wasn’t even alive when the evil angels rebelled.

6. He came at a time so that His life and death would answer all of the questions that needed answers for time and eternity.

MM: And yet the GC did not end when Jesus died on the cross. If His life and death alone answered “all of the questions” why is God allowing the GC to continue?

7. If the issue were simply legal, then He could have come and died right away.

MM: Why do you think so?

6) We see that God did not immediately send Christ, but only after several millenia. First God with and through Israel. Why?

sb "First God worked with and through Israel."

Here are the observations you, Tom, have made so far in this thread:

1. [O]ne question God wished to answer is what would happen is a people were to "worship" God with the intention of avoiding bad consequences they perceive would happen to them if they didn't. In other words, a "worship" inspired by fear.

MM: Do you mean to say God wanted the onlooking universe to see how wrong worshipping Him out of fear is?

I think rather than saying God wanted the universe to see how wrong worshipping Him out of fear is (which could give the impression that God wanted a bad thing to happen) I would say this is an issue God was aware of that could be a problem.

2. We know that at first the angels were confused as to the principles of God's government. They cried out for vengeance. They wanted God to destroy His enemies whenever they dared to defy Him.

MM: Please post a quote confirming this point. Thank you.



It's been quite awhile since I read whatever it is I read, so I'm not sure if this is what I was remembering or not. If it was, then I mistated things a bit as the angels aren't crying out for vengeance here, although they would have been sympathetic towards it.

3. The Jews demonstrated what happens when one "worships" God from a wrong motive, for example, the motive of fear.

MM: How does this relate to your title question?

I'm not suggesting this is a complete answer to the question, which I think is quite profound. But the thought is that there Jesus came at such a time that the effects of worshipping God out of fear could be seen.

4. Had God allowed Satan to reap the result of his sin, he would have died, but the reason for his death would not have been clear. It would have appeared that it was due to something God was doing to Satan as opposed to what it really was, the result of his sin. This misunderstanding of God would have created an evil seed of doubt, and the sin problem would not have been cured. Indeed, things would have become worse.

MM: If the holy angels were begging for vengeance and the destruction of God’s enemies why would they fear God if He had immediately punished and destroyed the evil angels?

You mean if God had allowed Satan and his host to reap the full result of their sin? That would have led to an evil seed of doubt being created. They would not have understood that death is the inevitable result of sin but would have misinterpreted it as an arbitrary act of God.

I have to admit their reaction, as described in "Reflecting Christ," is a bit curious. Sin had never had to be dealt with, so apparently even the angels had quite a bit to learn about how wonderful God really is.

5. So the reason, or a reason, that Christ did not come immediately upon Adam's sin was that there were lessons that needed to learn, which agrees with what you said. Had He come too soon, the problem of sin would not have been cured. The purpose for Christ's coming was to do away with sin, so the timing had to be right, so the purpose for which He came could be accomplished.

MM: How did delaying the punishment and destruction of evil angels help Adam with his sin problem?

Not "his" sin problem, but the problem of sin.



He wasn’t even alive when the evil angels rebelled.

That doesn't matter. What matters is that the principles of Satan and Christ be seen.

6. He came at a time so that His life and death would answer all of the questions that needed answers for time and eternity.

MM: And yet the GC did not end when Jesus died on the cross. If His life and death alone answered “all of the questions” why is God allowing the GC to continue?

I think I've answered this several times now. The GC continues because the Gospel has not been preached to all nations.

7. If the issue were simply legal, then He could have come and died right away.

MM: Why do you think so?

Because His death would have been just as effecacious immediately as it would have been 4,000 years later.

The main reason, in my opinion, why Christ couldn't have come just after Adam and Eve's sin is that Satan must first be given time to demonstrate the principles and results of his government, in order that, when Christ came, in the last act of murdering Him, the ties of sympathy between Satan and the heavenly world could be forever severed.

I think that's a good way of putting it, Rosangela. I also think the impact of worshiping God from a motive a fear was something that needed to be seen. This would answer the question as to why God did not just allow Satan and his host to suffer the result of their choice immediately when they made it.