Are there any examples of born again persons in the Old Testament?

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

I agree, the sanctuary symbolizes the work Jesus has, is and will do for us. But does it say nothing about our own personal experience? If it has to do with what Jesus is doing for us, then how can it not also include our walk in the faith?

For example, does Jesus' death in the outer court mean we don't have to crucify our old man habits of sin on the altar? Does Jesus' resurrection from the laver mean we don't have to be buried, baptized and born again?

Does Jesus' presence in the holy place mean we don't have to let our light shine (candle stick), pray (altar of incense) or eat the bread of life (table of showbread)?

Do you see what I mean? What Jesus does for us is also what He does in and through us. And these things are symbolized in the sanctuary. If not, then what does the sanctuary say about our salvation experience both in terms of justification and sanctification? Would someone like to respond?

1. Also, did we ever determine what the Bible says about - At what point are we actually born again? Do we experience rebirth before or after we completely crucify our old man habits of sin? See Rom 6.

2. Are we considered a new man in Christ if we are still clinging to some pet darling moral defect of character? See 2 Cor 5:17.

3. And is there any such thing as an unknown moral defect of character which a born again believer can commit without realizing it because God is waiting for the right time to reveal it to him? See Rom 1:18-32 and Gal 5:19-21 and 2 Tim 3:1-7.

Now who's avoiding answering my question!

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In His Love,Mercy & Grace

Daryl

Repentant Adam, Eve. Abel, Seth - and those that followed him, Enoch, Noah, and some of their respective families.

Where ever you find people seeking God and showing evidence of following Him. There are the born again folks. Their amassed knowledge is not the evidence, following what they do have is the evidence.

The sanctification of the soul by the working of the Holy Spirit is the implanting of Christ's nature in humanity. Gospel religion is Christ in the life--a living, active principle. It is the grace of Christ revealed in character and wrought out in good works. The principles of the gospel cannot be disconnected from any department of practical life. Every line of Christian experience and labor is to be a representation of the life of Christ. {COL 384.1}
Love is the basis of godliness. Whatever the profession, no man has pure love to God unless he has unselfish love for his brother. But we can never come into possession of this spirit by trying to love others. What is needed is the love of Christ in the heart. When self is merged in Christ, love springs forth spontaneously. The completeness of Christian character is attained when the impulse to help and bless others springs constantly from within--when the sunshine of heaven fills the heart and is revealed in the countenance. {COL 384.2}
It is not possible for the heart in which Christ abides to be destitute of love. If we love God because He first loved us, we shall love all for whom Christ died. We cannot come in touch with divinity without coming in touch with humanity; for in Him who sits upon the throne of the universe, divinity and humanity are combined. Connected with Christ, we are connected with our fellow men by the
385
golden links of the chain of love. Then the pity and compassion of Christ will be manifest in our life. We shall not wait to have the needy and unfortunate brought to us. We shall not need to be entreated to feel for the woes of others. It will be as natural for us to minister to the needy and suffering as it was for Christ to go about doing good. {COL 384.3}
Wherever there is an impulse of love and sympathy, wherever the heart reaches out to bless and uplift others, there is revealed the working of God's Holy Spirit. In the depths of heathenism, men who have had no knowledge of the written law of God, who have never even heard the name of Christ, have been kind to His servants, protecting them at the risk of their own lives. Their acts show the working of a divine power. The Holy Spirit has implanted the grace of Christ in the heart of the savage, quickening his sympathies contrary to his nature, contrary to his education. The "Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world" (John 1:9), is shining in his soul; and this light, if heeded, will guide his feet to the kingdom of God. {COL 385.1}
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"Contrary to worldly kingdoms, Christ does not find his subjects,--he makes them. Those who stand under the blood-stained banner of Prince Immanuel are the subjects of a kingdom not recognized by worldly kingdoms, whose subjects have wandered from their allegiance to God, from their obedience to the law of his kingdom. These are accounted as dead in trespasses and sins. They are destitute of the Spirit of God, which worketh in the children of obedience. {RH, June 21, 1898 par. 35}

"I am come, Christ said, to set up a new kingdom. Except a man be born of the Spirit, he can not be enrolled as a subject of my kingdom."--Testimony, Jan. 11, 1897. {RH, June 21, 1898 par. 36}
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Notice Solomon in his amassed knowledge & power & apostacy, but the demoniacs set free and immediatly put to work. While Solomon bowed to what was forbidden, and these set free gentiles testified of the Saviour......who was born again & who backslide and again dead in trespasses and sins?

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Edward F Sutton

Okay Daryl, this one's for you. Sorry I skipped over your post. But have you noticed how times my posted questions go untouched? No big deal. Perhaps someone some day will address them.

OT born again followers of God Almighty? Besides the one's Edward mentioned, how about - Job, Moses, David, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jonah... etc, etc, etc.

Jonah? Yes, even that old sour puss. Was it a sin for Jonah to be upset with God? I hope not. If we can't question what God does, then we are more miserable than all others. It would be a sin to turn our backs on God and lead a life of worldliness because we are upset with Him. But to be upset with Him is normal under the circumstances Jonah was faced with. It's similar to a lovers quarrel.

I think we sometimes make righteousness out to be something it isn't. If we are truly experiencing godliness, like Jesus did, then most people would be unable to pick us out of a crowd. There are alot of people who are too proud to stoop to low sins, i.e., drugs, murder, theft, rudeness, etc.

But polished behaviour is no substitute for genuine heaven-born godliness, even though the casual observer might not never know the difference. Not being bad is not being good. And neither is being good necessarily being godly. Christlikeness is the fruit of walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man.

How can we know if we're born again? Who do we love to spend time with? Of whom do we love to speak? Who is the loving recipient of our deepest devotions? If we can honestly answer these kinds of questions with - Jesus, then we may know that we are born again. Also our fruits will be in harmony with our profession.

Being born again is something that happens on a specific day. On that day we crucify our old man habits of sin, our cherished defects of character, and we also receive the gift of the sinless seed of the new man mind.

From that day forward it is our privilege to walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man in unbroken victory over temptation and continual maturing in the fruit of the Spirit. Unfortunately most of us, from time to time, resurrect our old man habits of sin and indulge (either deliberately or accidentally) some old sinful trait of character.

But this doesn't undo what we've experienced in the mind of the new man. Slipping back into the mind of the old man does not eliminate or eradicate the mind of the new man.

To get back into the mind of the new man we must accept the gift of repentance, which empowers us to confess and forsake our sin, and gives God the legal right to pardon our sin and to restore us to the Spirit and mind of the new man.

And so long as we walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man we do not and cannot commit a moral sin. See 1 John 3:9. Sin happens in the mind of the old man. It cannot happen in the mind of the new man.

Living without sin is not possible if we haven't received the gift of the sinless seed of the new man mind. See Eph 4:24. And we do not receive this gift until after we have completely crucified our old man character habits of sin, until after we have come to the place in our experience with Jesus where we would rather die than cling to some pet darling sin.

I do not believe that the Bible says we gradually experience rebirth over the course of a lifetime of sinning and repenting. We are born again a new man in Christ Jesus the very moment we give up our last cherished idol to serve the Lord with all our heart, mind, body and soul.

Conversion isn't something that is dragged out over a lifetime of sinning less and less often. We are converted the very second we receive Jesus into our life without reserving the right to sin here and there. In that second of time we are imbued with the Spirit and mind of the new man.

Well, that's how I see it. What do you think?

At what point in his life was Noah born again?

Before the flood?

After the flood?

Both before and after the flood?

Did Noah ever sin after being born again?

_________________________
In His Love,Mercy & Grace

Daryl

From the Bible record it seems clear to me that Noah was converted long before the Deluge. Yes, he fell into drunkeness and no doubt he repented. But just because a born again believer slips back into the mind of the old man, does that prove him unconverted or that he was never truly converted in the first place? I think not. What about you?

1. Did we ever determine what the Bible says about - At what point are we actually born again? Do we experience rebirth before or after we completely crucify our old man habits of sin? See Rom 6.

2. Are we considered a new man in Christ if we are still clinging to some pet darling moral defect of character? See 2 Cor 5:17.

3. And is there any such thing as an unknown moral defect of character which a born again believer can commit without realizing it because God is waiting for the right time to reveal it to him? See Rom 1:18-32 and Gal 5:19-21 and 2 Tim 3:1-7.

Is it really necessary that a person stands out in the full blaze of some long series of evangelistic sermons, weighing every single argument presented as pro or con - all before they make their decision for eternal life? No! Of course not!

“Some have lived in sadness for years, waiting for some marked evidence that they were accepted by God. After a time, some of these do receive evidence of their acceptance with God, and they are led then to identify themselves with His people; and they date their conversion from this time.”

Ellen White saw the fact that this “dating” of our conversion is sometimes misapplied, as she continues: “They were adopted into the family of God before that time [however]. God accepted them when they became weary of sin, and having lost the desires for the world’s pleasures, resolved to seek God earnestly. The work of grace on the heart is not an instantaneous work.

It is affected by continual, daily watching and believing the promises of God. The repentant, believing one who cherishes and earnestly desires the renewing grace of Christ; God will not turn away empty. He will give him grace, and ministering angels will aid him , as he perseveres in his efforts to advance.” (Manuscript 55. 1910).

A person's relation to eternal life may be determined by their attitude towards a very small beam of light. Jesus Himself has promised: "All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me; and [anyone] that cometh to Me, I will in no wise cast out." (Jo.6:37).

David, great quotes. Truly we may know we are right with God when it is in our hearts and habits to align our lives in harmony with His will and way as demonstated in the life of Jesus.

Would you be willing to take some time to address the 3 questions I listed above?

In the same line of thoughts I would like to bring these statements to your attention:

"We cannot have an inclination to come to Christ unless He sets in motion influences and impresses His Spirit upon the human mind. And if there is a man on the face of the earth who has any inclination toward God, it is because of the many influences that are set to work to bear upon his mind and heart. Those influences call for the allegiance to God and an appreciation of the great work that God has done for him. Then don't let us ever say that we can repent of ourselves, and then Christ will pardon. No, indeed, it is the favor of God that pardons. It is the favor of God that leads us by His power to repentance. Therefore it is all of Jesus Christ, everything of Him, and you want to just give back glory to God." Acts 5:31; F.W.73.

"The Lord Jesus imparts all the power, all the grace, all the penitence, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins, in presenting His righteousness for man to grasp by living faith." Ibid, p.24. "Faith comes by hearing the word of God." Rom.10:17. "All His commandments are righteousness." Ps.119:172; "All the words of My mouth are with righteousness." Prov.8:8. "The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness." Isaiah 45:23.

"He who will lay hold of Christ's righteousness need not wait one moment that he himself may blot out his own sins. He need not wait until he has made a suitable repentance before he may take hold upon Christ's righteousness." Ibid, p.64.

"Some seem to feel that they must be on probation and must prove to the Lord that they are reformed, before they can claim His blessing. But these dear souls may claim His blessing even now. They must have His grace, the Spirit of Christ, to help their infirmities or they cannot form a Christian character. Jesus loves to have us come to Him just as we are--now and ever--sinful, helpless, dependent." Ibid, p.38; D.A.317.

Dependent upon the words of His mouth which impart righteousness! "And righteousness is love and love is the light and the life of God." M.B.18. "I will never forget Your commandments, for by them You have given me life." Ps.119:50,93.

"How I love the law of Your mouth! It is more precious to me than thousands of shekels of gold and silver." Ps.119:72.

"The law of the Lord--of His mouth--is perfect, converting the soul." Ps.19:7.

The commandments of His mouth are more to be desired than gold, yea than much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb! Ps.19:7-10.

"Having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides for ever." 1 Peter 1:22-25; James 1:18; John 1:13.

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: adventbeliever ]