This is hitting the nail on the head.

TV: What you and I say here are the pure opposites. I say first we are covered with the grace of God, you say we first die to self and then are covered by the grace of God.

MM: I used the expression “robe of righteousness” not the “grace of God”. Do you see a difference?

TV: The order of events. Is it applied first or only after some level of achivement.

MM: Which one? Grace? Or, the robe of Christ’s righteousness? I believe God made the first move by graciously granting us a period of probation to accept Jesus as our personal Saviour. Once we die to self and experience the miracle of rebirth God covers us with the robe of Christ’s righteousness.

COL 312
By His perfect obedience He has made it possible for every human being to obey God's commandments. When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness. Then as the Lord looks upon us He sees, not the fig-leaf garment, not the nakedness and deformity of sin, but His own robe of righteousness, which is perfect obedience to the law of Jehovah. {COL 311.4}

TE: “What you and I say here are the pure opposites. I say first we are covered with the grace of God, you say we first die to self and then are covered by the grace of God.” This is hitting the nail on the head.

MM: Tom, in light of the COL 312 quote posted above, do you agree with the following insight – “God made the first move by graciously granting us a period of probation to accept Jesus as our personal Saviour. Once we die to self and experience the miracle of rebirth God covers us with the robe of Christ’s righteousness.”

Or, do you believe God covers people with Jesus’ justifying robe of righteousness before they die to self, before the “heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him”?

MM, the following is in answer to your question to me.

When a person is brought into harmony with Christ, the person repents of that which they are aware of. It's no different than a reconciliation between two people.

Let's say a brother has wronged me, and for years he's angry at me, and does mean things. Then one day he comes to his senses, and he asks me for forgiveness. He says he's so sorry about whatever it was that first led to our disagreement, and he starts to mention some mean things he's done. I can see from his tone and mannerisms that's he's sincerely. He's really broke up, he's sorry, and wants to be reconciled.

What's my reaction? Do I say, "I'm not going to forgive you until you remember and confess every wrong thing you've done against me?"

Consider the father in the story of the prodigal son. The son had rehearsed a story, about how he wasn't worthy to return and wanted to come back as a servant, but the father didn't even let him say his confession. He could see his son had returned, and that's what he cared about.

When a person is converted, his heart changes. The heart of stone is replaced with a heart of flesh. He begins to see things from a new perspective, as God see things. But this is just the beginning of the journey. God doesn't rush to bring all the bad things to memory, just like we wouldn't do so if someone were asking us forgiveness.

As far as God is concerned, there is no need for us to confess anything, just as the prodigal son's father did not require confession. The confession is for our sake, not God's. He's already at peace with us, and always has been. He so loved us He gave us His Son. It is we who need to be reconciled to Him.

So God does what is necessary to bring *us* to repentance, to bring us into harmony with Him. If there is sin that needs to be confessed, because without being forgiven of it we cannot be forgiven and set right with Him, that God will bring that to our attention. But everything He does is for our benefit, for the sole purpose of setting us right. Then the healing starts.

Thank you, Tom. I think we both agree that God does not remind us of every sin we committed before we are born again. I am glad we can agree on this point. Indeed, God will do whatever it takes to influence and motivate us to sender ourselves to Jesus, to live for Him wholeheartedly. Thank you, Jesus!

Unfortunately, though, we do not agree on whether or not God can clothe us with Jesus' robe of justification and righteousness if we are still practicing one or more of the sinful habits we cultivated before we embarked upon the long, patient, protracted process of conversion.

But you yourself don't agree with what you are saying. You pointed out that God may wink at certain sinful habits. So one version of you agrees with me. I'm sorry the other version of you doesn't agree with the one that agrees with me.

TE: If there is sin that needs to be confessed, because without being forgiven of it we cannot be forgiven and set right with Him, that God will bring that to our attention.

MM: Of all the sinful habits we cultivated, by acting them out repeatedly, over and over again, which ones must be revealed, confessed, and forsaken BEFORE we can be set right with God?

..............

TE: But you yourself don't agree with what you are saying. You pointed out that God may wink at certain sinful habits. So one version of you agrees with me. I'm sorry the other version of you doesn't agree with the one that agrees with me.

MM: Yes, there are extenuating circumstances, which God takes into consideration, that has, from time to time, led Him not to reveal to certain people specific cultivated sinful habits. In some cases He revealed them to these people after they were born again, and in other cases He never did get around to it before they died.

But these cases are the exception, not the rule. Since 1844, with the advent of the SDA church and the worldwide proclamation of the truth, these cases are occurring less and less often. God is making fewer and fewer exceptions, especially in well-informed nations like America. During the loud dry of the latter rain there will be no exceptions.

Can we at least agree that God will clothe no one with the robe of Jesus’ justifying righteousness while they are practicing a known sinful habit?

TE: If there is sin that needs to be confessed, because without being forgiven of it we cannot be forgiven and set right with Him, that God will bring that to our attention.

MM: Of all the sinful habits we cultivated, by acting them out repeatedly, over and over again, which ones must be revealed, confessed, and forsaken BEFORE we can be set right with God?

The ones which God reveals to us. Or, to use your language, the ones God doesn't wink at.

..............

TE: But you yourself don't agree with what you are saying. You pointed out that God may wink at certain sinful habits. So one version of you agrees with me. I'm sorry the other version of you doesn't agree with the one that agrees with me.

MM: Yes, there are extenuating circumstances, which God takes into consideration, that has, from time to time, led Him not to reveal to certain people specific cultivated sinful habits. In some cases He revealed them to these people after they were born again, and in other cases He never did get around to it before they died.

Which agrees with what I wrote, and not with what you wrote, which is that every sinful habit had to be brought to mind committed from birth, and confessed. This was wrong.

But these cases are the exception, not the rule. Since 1844, with the advent of the SDA church and the worldwide proclamation of the truth, these cases are occurring less and less often. God is making fewer and fewer exceptions, especially in well-informed nations like America. During the loud dry of the latter rain there will be no exceptions.

Can we at least agree that God will clothe no one with the robe of Jesus’ justifying righteousness while they are practicing a known sinful habit?

Let's agree first that you were wrong to say that every sinful habit from birth must be revealed and confessed before one can be converted.

MM: Of all the sinful habits we cultivated, by acting them out repeatedly, over and over again, which ones must be revealed, confessed, and forsaken BEFORE we can be set right with God?

TE: The ones which God reveals to us. Or, to use your language, the ones God doesn't wink at.

MM: Tom, I wish you would stop trying to make it look like I believe the same way you do in this regard. I do not believe God winks at smoking and drinking in the same way you do. We are in no way on the same page. I qualified what I meant by explaining there may be extenuating circumstances, but they do not apply to people attending SDA evangelistic meetings in well-informed nations like America. Please acknowledge our differences, instead of trying to make it look like we are on the same page. Thank you.
……………………………….

Back to the topic at hand: I do not believe God will clothe anyone with the robe of Jesus' justifying righteousness while they are practicing known sins. A prerequisite of justification by faith is not practicing known sins.

Am I the only who believes this way?

MM: Of all the sinful habits we cultivated, by acting them out repeatedly, over and over again, which ones must be revealed, confessed, and forsaken BEFORE we can be set right with God?

TE: The ones which God reveals to us. Or, to use your language, the ones God doesn't wink at.

MM: Tom, I wish you would stop trying to make it look like I believe the same way you do in this regard. I do not believe God winks at smoking and drinking in the same way you do. We are in no way on the same page. I qualified what I meant by explaining there may be extenuating circumstances, but they do not apply to people attending SDA evangelistic meetings in well-informed nations like America. Please acknowledge our differences, instead of trying to make it look like we are on the same page. Thank you.

Please acknowledge that what you said was wrong. You said that God has to reveal every sinful habit and that sinful habit must be confessed before a person is converted. This is wrong. The moment you opened up exceptions you made this clear. You should admit your error.

I'm not trying to make it appear that we believe the same. There are profound differences in almost every point we hold, due to a profound difference in how we perceive God to be.


Back to the topic at hand: I do not believe God will clothe anyone with the robe of Jesus' justifying righteousness while they are practicing known sins. A prerequisite of justification by faith is not practicing known sins.

Am I the only who believes this way?

This is a different topic. You're pretty much quoting straight from the Spirit of Prophecy on this one. When you do that, people will agree with you. It's when you venture out, and introduce ideas that are not found in her writings or Scripture (such as the idea that every sinful habit must be revealed and confessed before one can be converted) that people disagree with you.
____________________

TE: Please acknowledge that what you said was wrong.

MM: It is not wrong. God has to reveal every sinful habit and every sinful habit must be confessed and crucified before a person can experience the miracle of rebirth.

I do not believe God winks at smoking and drinking in the same way you do. I qualified what I meant. The winking principle never did apply to drinking. And it does not apply to smoking for people attending SDA evangelistic meetings in well-informed nations like America.

Acts
17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

God no longer winks at smoking and drinking.

..................

MM: I do not believe God will clothe anyone with the robe of Jesus' justifying righteousness while they are practicing known sins. A prerequisite of justification by faith is not practicing known sins.

TE: You're pretty much quoting straight from the Spirit of Prophecy on this one. When you do that, people will agree with you.

MM: Hopefully.

TE: It's when you venture out, and introduce ideas that are not found in her writings or Scripture (such as the idea that every sinful habit must be revealed and confessed before one can be converted) that people disagree with you.

MM: Fortunately not everyone disagrees. They read inspired testimonies like the following quotes and conclude, as I have, that God does not wait to reveal certain sinful habits until sometime after we are born again.

MH 510
One evil habit, if not firmly resisted, will strengthen into chains of steel, binding the whole man. {MH 509.4}

PP 452
The removal of one safeguard from the conscience, the indulgence of one evil habit, one neglect of the high claims of duty, breaks down the defenses of the soul and opens the way for Satan to come in and lead us astray. {PP 452.2}

CS 334
In order to be saved, she must overcome all those peculiar, evil traits, and imitate the character of her divine Lord, seeking opportunity to do others good, loving others as Christ has loved us. {CS 334.1}

2T 73
They were not told the sin of yielding to the control of these evil traits; therefore sin does not appear to them so exceedingly sinful. {2T 73.1}

5T 175
Pride, ambition, deceit, hatred, selfishness, must be cleansed from the heart. With many these evil traits are partially subdued, but not thoroughly uprooted from the heart. Under favorable circumstances they spring up anew and ripen into rebellion against God. Here lies a terrible danger. To spare any sin is to cherish a foe that only awaits an unguarded moment to cause our ruin. {5T 174.3}