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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Daryl]
#82355
12/11/06 01:58 AM
12/11/06 01:58 AM
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The Memory Text is fitting to the title of this weeks study. "Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed" (Genesis 32:28).
Looking at this week's and last week's studies, how did he ever prevail?
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Daryl]
#82404
12/12/06 08:02 AM
12/12/06 08:02 AM
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Here's one way: Jacob "had power over the Angel, and prevailed." Hosea 12:4. Through humiliation, repentance, and self-surrender, this sinful, erring mortal prevailed with the Majesty of heaven. He had fastened his trembling grasp upon the promises of God, and the heart of Infinite Love could not turn away the sinner's plea. {PP 197.1}
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Daryl]
#82426
12/12/06 09:19 PM
12/12/06 09:19 PM
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And that is the only we can also prevail. Where does John 15:5 enter into our prevailing experience?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Johann]
#82530
12/14/06 09:21 PM
12/14/06 09:21 PM
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John 15:5 I (Jesus) am the Vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
We can only prevail through our connection with Jesus Christ.
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Daryl]
#82531
12/14/06 09:27 PM
12/14/06 09:27 PM
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John 15:5 I (Jesus) am the Vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
We can only prevail through our connection with Jesus Christ. Who prevails then, Jesus or I? How pong do I need to prevail?
Last edited by Johann; 12/14/06 09:29 PM.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Johann]
#82532
12/14/06 09:38 PM
12/14/06 09:38 PM
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I said "we prevail" did I not? Whoever is connected to Jesus Christ prevails. We prevail as long as we are connected. I prevail as long as I am connected.
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Johann]
#82549
12/15/06 12:24 AM
12/15/06 12:24 AM
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"Connected" seems to be rather a nebulous concept. What does it mean? Does Jesus prevail on my behalf?
How long do I need to prevail by being in Christ? When does the time arrive when I can say, Thanks! Now I can manage from here on? These are good questions! It might be helpful to define these phrases as well.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Daryl]
#82559
12/15/06 02:17 AM
12/15/06 02:17 AM
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how is it that he finally prevailed? All penitent and broken, he clung to the Angel; "he wept, and made supplication" (Hosea 12:4), pleading for a blessing. He must have the assurance that his sin was pardoned. Physical pain was not sufficient to divert his mind from this object. His determination grew stronger, his faith more earnest and persevering, until the very last. The Angel tried to release Himself; He urged, "Let Me go, for the day breaketh;" but Jacob answered, "I will not let Thee go, except Thou bless me." Had this been a boastful, presumptuous confidence, Jacob would have been instantly destroyed; but his was the assurance of one who confesses his own unworthiness, yet trusts the faithfulness of a covenant-keeping God. {PP 196.3} Helpless and unworthy, he pleaded God's promise of mercy to the repentant sinner. That promise was his assurance that God would pardon and accept him. Sooner might heaven and earth pass than that word could fail; and it was this that sustained him through that fearful conflict. {PP 198.5}
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: asygo]
#82564
12/15/06 09:46 AM
12/15/06 09:46 AM
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how is it that he finally prevailed? - - - Had this been a boastful, presumptuous confidence, Jacob would have been instantly destroyed; but his was the assurance of one who confesses his own unworthiness, yet trusts the faithfulness of a covenant-keeping God. {PP 196.3} - - - Who is faithful? Are we tied through a covenant to God?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Johann]
#82575
12/15/06 02:12 PM
12/15/06 02:12 PM
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how is it that he finally prevailed? - - - Had this been a boastful, presumptuous confidence, Jacob would have been instantly destroyed; but his was the assurance of one who confesses his own unworthiness, yet trusts the faithfulness of a covenant-keeping God. {PP 196.3} - - - Who is faithful? Are we tied through a covenant to God? Does this covenant have anything to do with it if we will prevail or not? How? In my Bible there are 20 references to a covenant in the New Testament. Even our sins are removed through a covenant. Rom. 11.
Last edited by Johann; 12/15/06 02:43 PM.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Johann]
#82603
12/15/06 10:15 PM
12/15/06 10:15 PM
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Who is faithful?
Are we tied through a covenant to God? PP 196.3 says that God is faithful. Revelation 14:12 says that we are to have that same faith, the faith that manifests itself in faithfulness. So, both God and His people have the characteristic of faithfulness. The covenant between God and His people depends upon faithfulness. When both parties are faithful, then the covenant stands. When one side or the other is unfaithful, then the covenant is broken. Of course, God is always faithful. But, alas, we are not. Read 1Kings 11:11 for an example of unfaithfulness and its results.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Johann]
#82612
12/15/06 11:40 PM
12/15/06 11:40 PM
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How long does this covenant last? In general, as long as all parties fulfill the covenant's requirements. But it depends on what specific covenant you're talking about. Has God ever broken this covenant? Will he ever? No and No. It affects us positively if we fulfill the covenant's requirements. That means God will always do what He promises to do. And that's what faith is: claiming God's promises because we are in a covenant relationship with Him. But if we do not fulfill the requirements, then we have no claim to the covenant's blessings. To claim God's promises under this condition would be presumption, not faith. Have we broken the covenant? Again, it depends on what specific covenant you're talking about. But man has broken many covenants, starting with Adam.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: asygo]
#82621
12/16/06 01:32 PM
12/16/06 01:32 PM
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Have we broken the covenant? Again, it depends on what specific covenant you're talking about. But man has broken many covenants, starting with Adam. How many covenants bring us eternal life?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Johann]
#82646
12/17/06 04:20 AM
12/17/06 04:20 AM
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How many covenants bring us eternal life? One, called the New Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, and/or Covenant of Grace.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: asygo]
#82647
12/17/06 07:26 AM
12/17/06 07:26 AM
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How many covenants bring us eternal life? One, called the New Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, and/or Covenant of Grace. Have we ever broken that covenant? Since the covenant is made with individuals, the question can only be answered individually. If you have ever been in a lost condition (i.e. without eternal life), then you have broken that covenant. The good news is that the covenant can be re-established. If you want to figure out if you have re-established the covenant, then just ask God to reveal to you if you are receiving the blessings of the covenant (see Galatians, Hebrews, and Titus for the covenant's blessings). Since God always fulfills His end of the deal, if you are not receiving those blessings, then you are not fulfilling your end of the deal -> no covenant for you.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: asygo]
#82648
12/17/06 07:47 AM
12/17/06 07:47 AM
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How many covenants bring us eternal life? One, called the New Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, and/or Covenant of Grace. Have we ever broken that covenant? Since the covenant is made with individuals, the question can only be answered individually. If you have ever been in a lost condition (i.e. without eternal life), then you have broken that covenant. The good news is that the covenant can be re-established. If you want to figure out if you have re-established the covenant, then just ask God to reveal to you if you are receiving the blessings of the covenant (see Galatians, Hebrews, and Titus for the covenant's blessings). Since God always fulfills His end of the deal, if you are not receiving those blessings, then you are not fulfilling your end of the deal -> no covenant for you. How do I break that covenant? When and how do I have eternal life?
Last edited by Johann; 12/17/06 07:51 AM.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Johann]
#82649
12/17/06 08:53 AM
12/17/06 08:53 AM
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How do I break that covenant?
When and how do I have eternal life? Here's how to have eternal life: "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1Jn 5:12) Here's when you can have eternal life: "For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him." (Romans 6:5-9) Here's how to break the covenant: "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 16:25)
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: asygo]
#82651
12/17/06 09:47 AM
12/17/06 09:47 AM
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How do I break that covenant?
When and how do I have eternal life? Here's how to have eternal life: "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1Jn 5:12) Here's when you can have eternal life: "For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him." (Romans 6:5-9) Here's how to break the covenant: "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 16:25) Wonderfful assuarances, Arnold, and taken right from Scripture, and that is our faith on which we can rely. Matt. 16:25 states that life is not given by our desire alone. Our life must be deposited completely with Jesus, and then we are in His covenant of eternal life. Eternal Life? But when do we become immortal? Are the angels immortal?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Johann]
#82654
12/17/06 10:21 AM
12/17/06 10:21 AM
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How many covenants bring us eternal life? One, called the New Covenant, Abrahamic Covenant, and/or Covenant of Grace. Have we ever broken that covenant? Since the covenant is made with individuals, the question can only be answered individually. If you have ever been in a lost condition (i.e. without eternal life), then you have broken that covenant. The good news is that the covenant can be re-established. If you want to figure out if you have re-established the covenant, then just ask God to reveal to you if you are receiving the blessings of the covenant (see Galatians, Hebrews, and Titus for the covenant's blessings). Since God always fulfills His end of the deal, if you are not receiving those blessings, then you are not fulfilling your end of the deal -> no covenant for you. How do I break that covenant? When and how do I have eternal life? Johanns question is good. Is not this covenant almost more like a promise? God saying, this I will do for you.
Galatians 2 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: vastergotland]
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12/19/06 12:27 AM
12/19/06 12:27 AM
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Is not this covenant almost more like a promise? God saying, this I will do for you. It is a promise, but it is conditional. "I will do this for you if you ..." God promises to give eternal life to those who meet the conditions. Unfortunately, as Jesus said, most people will choose to go down the road of destruction.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: asygo]
#82856
12/19/06 10:27 PM
12/19/06 10:27 PM
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Is not this covenant almost more like a promise? God saying, this I will do for you. It is a promise, but it is conditional. "I will do this for you if you ..." God promises to give eternal life to those who meet the conditions. Unfortunately, as Jesus said, most people will choose to go down the road of destruction. By what means can I break this covenant? I'd like to have a more specific answer than the one given in the text. Is there another text which describes this?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Johann]
#82861
12/19/06 11:02 PM
12/19/06 11:02 PM
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By what means can I break this covenant? I'd like to have a more specific answer than the one given in the text. Is there another text which describes this? Here are a few more texts. Compare and contrast them to see what the conditions are for life and death. Broken covenant = death. John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 1 John 5:12 - He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 3:9 - Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul who sins shall die. Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. Luke 13:27 - Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity. Matthew 19:17 - But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. Romans 6:8 - Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, Romans 6:3-4 - Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: asygo]
#82881
12/20/06 11:07 AM
12/20/06 11:07 AM
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By what means can I break this covenant? I'd like to have a more specific answer than the one given in the text. Is there another text which describes this? Here are a few more texts. Compare and contrast them to see what the conditions are for life and death. Broken covenant = death. Excellent, and yet so simple. The good Lord does not require a Ph.D. in soteriology (=the doctrine of how we are saved) for us to understand this. That covenant is the covenant of life, eternal life. It is the power line that connects us with God, the only source of immortality. When that is broken there is no power, and the result is death. You will recall that the ark of the covenant was in the most holy. What was in the ark?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: vastergotland]
#82887
12/20/06 03:21 PM
12/20/06 03:21 PM
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So perfect performance in avoiding sin is the key? No. The key is dying to self and being born of God. With that key you will unlock the storehouse which contains the treasure of avoiding sin. (See 1Jn 3:9 and 5:18) That same storehouse contains the gift of everlasting life. As for perfect performance, I don't think that's going to happen while our equipment is damaged. Hence, Jesus promises to cover our "unavoidable deficiencies." In the meantime, we are to have a perfect trust in God and a perfect submission to His will.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: asygo]
#82930
12/21/06 06:12 PM
12/21/06 06:12 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Iceland
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In the meantime, we are to have a perfect trust in God and a perfect submission to His will.
Are we born with this perfect trust? What is our situation when we are not submitted to His will?
Last edited by Johann; 12/21/06 11:14 PM.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study #11 - Jacob Becomes Israel
[Re: Johann]
#83019
12/24/06 06:02 PM
12/24/06 06:02 PM
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SDA Active Member 2023
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Joined: Feb 2006
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California, USA
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In the meantime, we are to have a perfect trust in God and a perfect submission to His will.
Are we born with this perfect trust? What is our situation when we are not submitted to His will? When we are born, we have perfect trust, but that trust is in self. We do not naturally trust God, and therefore, do not naturally want to submit to Him. Rather, we are naturally alienated from God. That's why we must be born again.
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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