Dan, it was really good to see you again. And thank you for sharing your thoughts here. You make a very valid point. Not everybody needs to understand the "new man - old man" motif in order to realize Jesus went to Calvary for them personally. Amen.

When you get the time would you mind sharing how you understand 1 John 3:9?

MM Is this still how you see the old man? Have you modified this position over the past few years?

Yes, I still believe the same way. The old man is the combined sinful traits of character we develop as we act out, either in thought, word, or deed, the unholy thoughts and feelings communicated to us by the mind and voice of our fallen flesh nature.

Is that what you believe, too?

The mind of the new man is implanted within us the moment our old man is crucified, the moment we are born again. The mind of the new man is the mind of Christ, and it comes complete with all the righteous attributes of God's character and all the fruits of the Spirit. We are born again morally complete (perfect). We are not, however, born again morally mature. As we walk in the Spirit and mind of the new man, we mature morally and grow intellectually in exactly the same way Jesus grew and matured. In the same way Jesus was the second Adam, we become, as it were, the third Adam.

So long as we are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, so long as we are connected to Christ, so long as we are actively partaking of the divine nature, we do not and cannot commit a known sin. Our old man mind (our former sinful traits of character) is dead and buried. However, the mind and voice of our sinful nature is still very much alive and active. It echoes the mind and voice of our old man, which is dead and buried, and, as such, makes it seem as though nothing changed the moment we were born again. Remember, sinful character is sinful nature personified (manifested).

It is the similarities between the mind and voice of our old man and our sinful nature that causes some people to assume their old man did not die when they were born again. Thus, they assume their old man is still alive, and if their old man is still alive that means, then, they still possess known and uncrucified defective traits of character, which, in turn, means they are guilty and unsaved in the sight of God. Why? Because there is no excuse for retaining known sins after we experience the miracle of rebirth.

Dual minds? Yes, born again believers have, as it were, dual minds - the mind of the new man and the mind of sinful nature. The mind of the old man is dead and buried. However, as mentioned before, born again believers are always free to resurrect the mind of their old man and resume sinning, which is exactly what happens the second we take our eyes off Jesus, the second we disconnect from Him, the second we stop partaking of the divine nature.

But, and praise the Lord, the gift of repentance restores the relationship our sin severed. Repentance gives God the right to forgive us, and to restore us to the mind of the new man. Once restored to the mind of the new man, our old man is buried again, and we resume walking in the Spirit, we resume maturing in the fruits of Spirit.

If only the old mind can sin, and disconnecting from Christ is a sin, then how can we sin if we are under the new mind?

That is, as I'm understanding it:
1) New mind doesn't sin.
2) Old mind only sins.
3) Disconnecting from Christ is a sin.
4) Therefore only the old mind can disconnect from Christ.

When we are in the mind of the old man we cannot not sin. Unsaved sinners do not have to choose to sin. They sin by default. All they can do is choose to be born again. When we receive the implanted mind of the new man our freedom to choose includes the ability to choose to sin. We are not free to sin until we are free from sin. The slaves and servants of sin cannot choose not to sin. They can only choose to be saved from sinning by accepting Jesus as their personal Saviour. However, like unfallen Adam and Eve, those who are in the mind of the new man do not sin until the moment they choose to sin. It is possible for sinless beings to choose to sin, including Jesus.

Well this solves one paradox, but introduces another. Now we have:
1) Old mind can only sin
2) New mind can either sin or not sin

If the old mind can only sin, then how can it become new? That would involve an act of not sinning.

Also I thought there was something about once the new mind sins, it goes away, so one is now under the old mind, at which point one can only sin again, correct? So now we have the problem of not being able to not sin again.

So it seems that the new mind doesn't really have the choice to sin or not sin, except for once. If the new mind sins once, then it become old mind, and is in a state of only being able to sin.

Tom, it isn't all that complicated. Adam and Eve were sinless, right? How is it, then, that they were able to sin? Jesus was sinless, too, right? Well, how is it, then, that He was capable of sinning? In the same way, born again believers are capable of sinning. But, so long as they are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man they do not and cannot commit a known sin.

However, they are not incapable of sinning. It's just that it cannot happen while they are connected to Christ, while they are partaking of the divine nature, while they are walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man. To commit a known sin they must first stop walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man. 1) Disconnecting from Jesus, 2) resurrecting the mind of the old man, and 3) committing a known sin are three different steps that essentially happen at the same time.

The mind of the new man does not die immediately or cease to exist. It is simply inactive while we are back in the resurrected mind of the old man. However, the gift of repentance gives us the desire and ability, while in the mind of the old man, to confess our sins. It also gives God the legal right to pardon us, and to restore us to the mind of the new man. We resume where we left off walking in the Spirit, growing in grace, and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit. The old man is again crucified and buried.

How about "faith" or "doubt". Do you really switch around your allegiance like that?