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Re: Justification by Faith prerequisites
[Re: Mountain Man]
#83277
01/01/07 01:15 AM
01/01/07 01:15 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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What are the exceptions? I think you agreed that smoking or drinking may be exceptions. Is that correct? Polygamy as well? (e.g. in the case of David, I think you said this when discussing this with Rosangela).
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Justification by Faith prerequisites
[Re: Tom]
#83284
01/01/07 03:17 AM
01/01/07 03:17 AM
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Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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“Justification by faith” – think about it this way.
faith = seeing through God’s eyes; seeing as God sees.
Justification by faith = seeing as God sees and agreeing with God’s view, judgment.
Righteousness by faith = the righteousness that comes from seeing as God sees.
So what is the prerequisite?
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Re: Justification by Faith prerequisites
[Re: John Boskovic]
#83287
01/01/07 06:49 AM
01/01/07 06:49 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
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I like your definitions John. Repentance (a change of mind) is an obvious prerequisite, since by nature our way of looking at things is different than God's.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Justification by Faith prerequisites
[Re: Tom]
#83309
01/01/07 04:36 PM
01/01/07 04:36 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Posts: 22,256
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Tom, yes, the things you listed have been overlooked by God as exceptions to the rule. John, justification by faith, from what I've read, deals with God pardoning past sins which have been confessed and forsaken. It also covers sins of ignorance. It places sinners in a position where they can begin experiencing sanctification by faith, that is, grow in grace and maturing in the fruits of the Spirit. Thus, it is sanctification, not justification, that empowers us to think and behave like Jesus. 7BC 908 Justification means the saving of a soul from perdition, that he may obtain sanctification, and through sanctification, the life of heaven. Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification (MS 113, 1902). {7BC 908.15} The Fellowship of the Human and Divine.--Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfillment of the covenant God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, His Son, and His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then cooperate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf (MS 11, 1901). {7BC 908.11}
Evidences of Sanctification.--True sanctification will be evidenced by a conscientious regard for all the commandments of God, by a careful improvement of every talent, by a circumspect conversation, by revealing in every act the meekness of Christ (RH Oct. 5, 1886). {7BC 908.12}
(1 John 2:3, 4.) The True Sign of Sanctification.--Those who dishonor God by transgressing His law may talk sanctification, but it is of that value, and just as acceptable, as was the offering of Cain. Obedience to all the commandments of God is the only true sign of sanctification. Disobedience is the sign of disloyalty and apostasy (MS 41, 1897). {7BC 908.13}
(Rom. 3:24-28.) Holiness Within the Reach of All.--God has chosen men from eternity to be holy. "This is the will of God, even your sanctification." God's law tolerates no sin, but demands perfect obedience. The echo of God's voice comes to us, ever saying. Holier, holier still. And ever our answer is to be, Yes, Lord, holier still. Holiness is within the reach of all who reach for it by faith, not because of their good works, but because of Christ's merits. Divine power is provided for every soul struggling for the victory over sin and Satan. {7BC 908.14}
Justification means the saving of a soul from perdition, that he may obtain sanctification, and through sanctification, the life of heaven. Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification (MS 113, 1902). {7BC 908.15}
Sanctification and Communion.--Sanctification means habitual communion with God (RH March 15, 1906). {7BC 908.16}
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Re: Justification by Faith prerequisites
[Re: Mountain Man]
#83313
01/01/07 04:55 PM
01/01/07 04:55 PM
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Ontario
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Thus, it is sanctification, not justification, that empowers us to think and behave like Jesus. I don't know why or how I should ever stop justifying myself, and let God justify me, so that my conscience be purged from dead works (self-justification) to serve the living God, except that I have seen through his eyes and have agreed with him. Justification means the saving of a soul from perdition, that he may obtain sanctification, and through sanctification, the life of heaven. Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
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Re: Justification by Faith prerequisites
[Re: John Boskovic]
#83349
01/02/07 04:06 PM
01/02/07 04:06 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
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John, we cannot pardon our past sins. Only God has the legal right to pardon us. Justifying ourselves has no legal standing in heaven, and serves no practical purpose on earth. Nor can we cleanse ourselves from all our unrighteousnesses.
Justification by works doesn't work. It cannot set us free. Only the truth as it is in Jesus can set us free. If we confess our sinful habits and practices, if we believe God pardons us, then, and only then, are we justified, that is, counted as though we have never sinned.
Justification by faith wipes our slate clean. We start off on new footing. We are sinless. We can obey Jesus' command to - "Go, and sin no more." As you know, only sinless people can go and sin no more. It is sanctification by faith that enables us to grow in grace and to mature in the fruits of the Spirit.
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Re: Justification by Faith prerequisites
[Re: Mountain Man]
#83356
01/02/07 04:55 PM
01/02/07 04:55 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
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How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. {DA 175.5} This is dealing with justification by faith. Notice it starts out, "How, then, are we to be saved?" Everything about this quote is agreeing with what John has been posting. You can see that the Holy Spirit, by means of the revelation of God and His love through the cross, leads one to see things in a new and different way. This transformation is represented as a new birth. The believer receives a new heart. Paul talks about this when he says if anyone be in Christ, he is a new creature (or new creation), old things are passed away; all things are become new. The new birth, which is justification, is all about transformation. One cannot be born again, or justified by faith, without being transformed.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Justification by Faith prerequisites
[Re: Mountain Man]
#83406
01/03/07 04:12 AM
01/03/07 04:12 AM
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Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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MM, you seem to have a controversy with what I have written. I wonder why! Tom understands it. What about what I have written troubles you?
John, we cannot pardon our past sins.
But every sinner by nature and of neccessity does continually pursue such a course.
Only God has the legal right to pardon us.
“Legal” never satisfies anybody’s “conscience”.
Justifying ourselves has no legal standing in heaven, and serves no practical purpose on earth. Nor can we cleanse ourselves from all our unrighteousness.
I do not dispute.
Justification by works doesn't work. It cannot set us free.
I agree
Only the truth as it is in Jesus can set us free.
Indeed! How does it get from Jesus to “my conscience”?
If we confess our sinful habits and practices, if we believe God pardons us, then, and only then, are we justified, that is: counted as though we have never sinned.
Sounds to me like a man-made formula of make-belief. You seem to propose a religious belief system, in the place of genuine faith which looks through God’s eyes. Also, to be pardoned is far from being “justified”.
Justification by faith wipes our slate clean.
I don’t have a slate; I have a conscience? Problem is in the “conscience”. It is our conscience that needs to be cleansed from dead works to serve the living God .
We start off on new footing. We are sinless.
That’s nice! Who said?
We can obey Jesus' command to - "Go, and sin no more."
No clue how you ever heard him say it!
As you know, only sinless people can go and sin no more. It is sanctification by faith that enables us to grow in grace and to mature in the fruits of the Spirit.
How did that happen?
Theological jargon does not satisfy, let's talk practical reality.
Psa 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
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Re: Justification by Faith prerequisites
[Re: John Boskovic]
#83408
01/03/07 04:23 AM
01/03/07 04:23 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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John, great comment about the slate and the conscience!
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Justification by Faith prerequisites
[Re: Tom]
#83429
01/03/07 06:01 PM
01/03/07 06:01 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Tom, the following definitions teach us that justification prepares sinners to receive the blessings of sanctification, that it purges them from dead works so that they can begin growing in grace and maturing in the fruit of the Spirit. You seem to be saying it's the other way around. Did I misunderstand you?
7BC 908 Justification means the saving of a soul from perdition, that he may obtain sanctification, and through sanctification, the life of heaven. Justification means that the conscience, purged from dead works, is placed where it can receive the blessings of sanctification (MS 113, 1902). {7BC 908.15}
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