MM, you seem to have a controversy with what I have written. I wonder why! Tom understands it. What about what I have written troubles you?

MM: See following responses.

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John, we cannot pardon our past sins.

But every sinner by nature and of neccessity does continually pursue such a course.

MM: Okay.

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Only God has the legal right to pardon us.

“Legal” never satisfies anybody’s “conscience”.

MM: Okay. But the statement is true.

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Justifying ourselves has no legal standing in heaven, and serves no practical purpose on earth. Nor can we cleanse ourselves from all our unrighteousness.

I do not dispute.

MM: Okay.

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Justification by works doesn't work. It cannot set us free.

I agree

MM: Okay.

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Only the truth as it is in Jesus can set us free.

Indeed! How does it get from Jesus to “my conscience”?

MM: The Holy spirit.

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If we confess our sinful habits and practices, if we believe God pardons us, then, and only then, are we justified, that is: counted as though we have never sinned.

Sounds to me like a man-made formula of make-belief. You seem to propose a religious belief system, in the place of genuine faith which looks through God’s eyes. Also, to be pardoned is far from being “justified”.

MM: God cannot justify pardoning us if we do not confess and forsake our sinful habits and practices.

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Justification by faith wipes our slate clean.

I don’t have a slate; I have a conscience? Problem is in the “conscience”. It is our conscience that needs to be cleansed from dead works to serve the living God .

MM: Okay.

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We start off on new footing. We are sinless.

That’s nice! Who said?

MM: God.

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We can obey Jesus' command to - "Go, and sin no more."

No clue how you ever heard him say it!

MM: The Bible.

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As you know, only sinless people can go and sin no more. It is sanctification by faith that enables us to grow in grace and to mature in the fruits of the Spirit.

How did that happen? Theological jargon does not satisfy, let's talk practical reality. Psa 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.

MM: “Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.” (Ps. 119:11) “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.” (1 Jn. 2:1) “Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” (Gal. 5:16) “For he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Pet. 4:1, 2) “

1 John
3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Tom, the following definitions teach us that justification prepares sinners to receive the blessings of sanctification, that it purges them from dead works so that they can begin growing in grace and maturing in the fruit of the Spirit. You seem to be saying it's the other way around. Did I misunderstand you?

Yes. I've never stated or implied that sanctification comes before justification. Actually I presented a quote from "The Desire of Ages". You don't see this as presenting sanctification coming before justification, do you? Or do you think the DA quote is dealing with sanctification, and that's where the misunderstanding is coming from?

MM, you seem to have a controversy with what I have written. I wonder why! What about what I have written troubles you?


Your responses did not shed any light nor tell of your contention. What about what I have said above bothers you?

All that you have said so far does not reveal the means of cleansing my conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Tom, I thought I would post this here also.

That would miss the point. You see, wiping the slate has an inanimate aspect. The slate is no better before or after; it can only be used by others for their purposes.

If God were to wipe my conscience, I would be an imbecile. The cleansing of the conscience is unlike the wiping of a slate.The wiping of the slate is a legal concept. When one speaks of it, one only speaks of guilt; trying to wipe away the guilt. The conscience is a relentless judge, judging according to what we know to be right. So it judges against the wiping away of guilt as long as the righteousness by which it judges is held. It is sad to see the legalistic beliefs which cannot cleanse the comers thereto.

In Christ we have the living way. The cleansing of the conscience is a work of enlightenment; dispelling the darkness. It is the changing from glory to glory. It is the acceptance of his thoughts towards us, that sets us free to contemplate something greater.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

My thinking regarding the cleansing of the slate had to do with the removal of the guilt of sin. How can our consciences be cleansed from guilt, like a slate is wiped clean? (not the methodology, but the end result; that is, being cleansed).

In terms of the cleansing of the slate being a legal concept, I see this point. It's similar to how many view the concept of the books of heaven being wiped clean from sin. The reality is that the books of heaven reflect the reality of our lives. If we have been cleansed from sin, then the books of heaven will reflect that. But if our lives (which is to say our mind) is still contaminated by sin, a change in the books of heaven would do us not good.

Waggoner has a wonderful thought regarding this. I'll see if I can find it.

Found it! (thank you for waiting)



At any rate, in the cleansing of the slate analogy I certainly wasn't thinking in terms of it's being available for the use of another, nor in terms of tabula rasa, or an empty mind. Of course God doesn't want our minds to be empty, but cleansed, which is exactly what we need.