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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: vastergotland]
#85701
02/24/07 12:01 AM
02/24/07 12:01 AM
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How about learning from our own SDA Bible Dictionary? I pulled out my SDA Bible Dictionary to see what it has to say about the word "foreknowledge" and read the following:
Foreknowledge. [Gr. prognoµsis, “a knowing beforehand,” “foreknowledge.”] That aspect of God’s omniscience by which future events are known to Him before, and apart from, any objective indication that they are to take place. The term appears only in Acts 2:23 and in 1 Pe 1:2, KJV. The related verb form, “to foreknow” (proginoµskoµ), is used in Rom 8:29; 11:2; etc. The Scriptures in no way circumscribe the foreknowledge of God; in fact, they point to this ability to discern the future as a primary evidence that He is God (Is 42:9; 45:21; 46:10; 48:3–8).
It is important to distinguish between foreknowledge and predestination. “To know” does not mean “to determine,” and “to foreknow” must not be construed to mean “to predetermine.” In Acts 2:23 God’s foreknowledge concerning Christ’s vicarious death is connected with His infinite purpose, or “plan,” that Christ should die for sinners. God foresaw, as well, that some would accept the salvation thus provided, and to such He purposed to give the privilege of becoming the sons of God (Jn 1:12). He foreordained, or predestined, all who would voluntarily accept the gift of salvation “to be conformed to the image of his Son” (Rom 8:29). Thus, in the case of human beings as free moral agents, predestination is based on foreknowledge. According to v 30, those thus predestined to conformation to the image of Christ are said to be “called,” “justified,” and “glorified.” Similarly in 1 Pe 1:2 the divine election must be considered as based on “the foreknowledge of God” with respect to those who accept His gift of salvation.
Let's take a look at the prophecies relating to Christ to the precision of knowing in advance that Christ would die on a cross way before this manner of death was ever invented. God obviously knew in advance that the Romans would invent this type of death penalty for a non-Roman citizen.
How does one explain this away?
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: vastergotland]
#85713
02/24/07 03:25 AM
02/24/07 03:25 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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God sees it all outside of time, however, he obviously communicates with us where we are at, in time and on time. You are asserting that God communicates with us in time, and simultaneously are asserting that He, in spite of the fact that He communicates with us in this way, actually experiences time in some other way. In other words, God is not accurately expressing His experience. This raises a couple of questions. First of all, why is God inaccurately communicating with us? Surely God is capable of communicating accurately, isn't He? Secondly, you are asserting that you know something about God's communication which God has not revealed. That's the really interesting thing. You assert that God communicates with us in time, yet you know that God is really outside of time, in spite of the fact that God communicates with us in time. How do you know that? How do you know something that God has communicated to us is false?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Tom]
#85714
02/24/07 03:32 AM
02/24/07 03:32 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Consider the following statement from the Spirit of Prophecy: Satan in heaven had hated Christ for His position in the courts of God. He hated Him the more when he himself was dethroned. He hated Him who pledged Himself to redeem a race of sinners. Yet into the world where Satan claimed dominion God permitted His Son to come, a helpless babe, subject to the weakness of humanity. He permitted Him to meet life's peril in common with every human soul, to fight the battle as every child of humanity must fight it, at the risk of failure and eternal loss.(DA 49) If God's foreknowledge means that only one thing can happen in the future (that which God knows will happen), then how could God have incurred a risk when He sent Christ? Wouldn't it have been certain that Christ would succeed? (since God foresaw that and prophesied it) How can something which is 100% certain to happen be described as a "fearful risk"? Wouldn't that be like my betting you $100 dollars that the sun will rise tomorrow, and calling that a "fearful risk"?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Tom]
#85766
02/25/07 07:57 PM
02/25/07 07:57 PM
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Daryl]
#85814
02/27/07 03:35 AM
02/27/07 03:35 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Tom]
#85962
03/03/07 01:47 AM
03/03/07 01:47 AM
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Here is a quote by EGW regarding the foreknowledge of God:
Christ quoted a prophecy which more than a thousand years before had predicted what God's foreknowledge had seen would be. The prophecies do not shape the characters of the men who fulfill them. Men act out their own free will, either in accordance with a character placed under the molding of God or a character placed under the harsh rule of Satan.
{RH, November 13, 1900 par. 11}
EGW saw that the foreknowledge of God didn't and doesn't affect the free will of man. Even the words "had seen would be" is interesting in connection with the foreknowledge of God in connection with this topic and the other related topics.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Daryl]
#86017
03/04/07 06:29 PM
03/04/07 06:29 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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This type of knowlede is very much in order, for it does not foreknow who will personally choose to be under God or under Satan. It does know the results of either.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: John Boskovic]
#86021
03/04/07 07:22 PM
03/04/07 07:22 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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John's comment is exactly right. God knows the end from the beginning, which means that He knows what will be the result of the choices we make. He doesn't know "the" choice we will make, because there is no such thing. That is, God could only know "the" choice we would make if there was only one possible choice for us to make. I've repeated the following point many, many times, but I've never gotten any confirmation that this point has been understood. It's one thing if a point has been understand, and not agreed to for some reason, and another if the point hasn't been understood. So I'll keep on repeating it until I get some indication that it's been understood, because the repeated statements that God's knowing what we will do does not cause us to do it seems to be pretty strong evidence that it hasn't been understood. It's not that God knows what we will do that "causes" us to do that thing He knows, but that there's only one possible thing that we can do to be known. That is, God can only know the one thing we will do if there's only one thing we can do. If there's more than one thing we can do, then that's what God will know. Daryl, I don't think you've commented on the passage from the Desire of Ages which tells us that God sent His Son at the risk of failure and eternal loss. "Risk" means it wasn't certain Christ would succeed. In other words, God wasn't 100% certain Christ would be successful. This is actually very amazing, when you think about it. It means that God loved us so much He was willing to lose His only Son to secure our redemption. We lose a blessing if we refuse to believe this. You can see that Ellen White was also amazed by this concept because she ended her comment saying, To meet a bitterer conflict and a more fearful risk, God gave His only-begotten Son, that the path of life might be made sure for our little ones. "Herein is love." Wonder, O heavens! and be astonished, O earth! (DA 49) Wonder, O heavens! and be astonished, O earth!
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Tom]
#86039
03/05/07 01:10 PM
03/05/07 01:10 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2014
Retired Pastor
3000+ Member
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
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This is entering the realms of the Almighty, and may be hidden to us. Beware of reaching farther than we can fathom, but we are permitted to wonder.
A Sabbath School teacher once wondered if God in His infinite wisdom does not choose Himself not to ponder into all that he could see, if needed, in order not to curb the freedom of man.
What do we know of Almighty Love, Wisdom, Freedom? Anything that the human mind cannot comprehend?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: What is the Truth About The Foreknowledge of God?
[Re: Johann]
#86051
03/05/07 03:05 PM
03/05/07 03:05 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Satan in heaven had hated Christ for His position in the courts of God. He hated Him the more when he himself was dethroned. He hated Him who pledged Himself to redeem a race of sinners. Yet into the world where Satan claimed dominion God permitted His Son to come, a helpless babe, subject to the weakness of humanity. He permitted Him to meet life's peril in common with every human soul, to fight the battle as every child of humanity must fight it, at the risk of failure and eternal loss.(DA 49) Johann, I really don't think this is difficult to understand. God sent His son at a risk, because of His great love for us.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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