A few weeks ago Jean Miller in some of her posted material cited a number of quotations from the SOP. These quotes apply to all of us, including and especially myself. In them, Ellen White states that we still have a lot to learn and that part of the learning process is giving up our firmly held opinions that are wrong. Daryl, you and Bob have expressed your concern that any new teachings shouldn't undermine the light we already have. I share that concern. But according to Ellen White, everything that passes for established light in the church is not light. Notice what she says:

"We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. As long as we hold to our own ideas and opinions with determined persistency, we cannot have the unity for which Christ prayed." Counsels to Writers and Editors p. 37.

Thankfully, Ellen White gives us clear indicators of where to look for errors in our prophetic understanding. According to the quotes below, our understanding is especially weak regarding the ceremonial law and its types. Let's stop paying lip service, myself included, to the Spirit of Prophecy and open our minds to God's counsel long enough to look candidly at the issues, honestly asking ourselves whether we know as much about the ceremonial law and its application to prophecy and the plan of salvation as we think we do. Here are some more of Sister White's statements regarding our limited understanding of these things:

"The trials of the children of Israel, and their attitude just before the first coming of Christ, have been presented before me again and again to illustrate the position of the people of God in their experience before the second coming of Christ--how the enemy sought every occasion to take control of the minds of the Jews, and today he is seeking to blind the minds of GOD'S SERVANTS, that they may not be able to discern the precious truth." 1SM p. 406.

"The system of Jewish economy was the gospel in figure, a presentation of Christianity which was to be developed as fast as the minds of the people could comprehend spiritual light. Satan ever seeks to make obscure the truths that are plain, and Christ ever seeks to open the mind to comprehend every essential truth concerning the salvation of fallen man. TO THIS DAY THERE ARE STILL ASPECTS OF TRUTH WHICH ARE DIMLY SEEN, CONNECTIONS THAT ARE NOT UNDERSTOOD, AND FAR-REACHING DEPTHS IN THE LAW OF GOD THAT ARE UNCOMPREHENDED. There is immeasurable breadth, dignity, and glory in the law of God; and yet the religious world has set aside this law, as did the Jews, to exalt the traditions and commandments of men." Fundaments of Christian Education p. 238.

"THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE JEWISH ECONOMY IS NOT YET FULLY COMPREHENDED. Truths vast and profound are shadowed forth in its rites and symbols. The gospel is the key that unlocks its mysteries. Through a knowledge of the plan of redemption, its truths are opened to the understanding. FAR MORE THAN WE DO, IT IS OUR PRIVILEGE TO UNDERSTAND THESE WONDERFUL THEMES. We are to comprehend the deep things of God. Angels desire to look into the truths that are revealed to the people who with contrite hearts are searching the word of God, and praying for greater lengths and breadths and depths and heights of the knowledge which He alone can give." Christ's Object Lesson p. 133.

Ellen White regarded the ceremonial law more for it's ability to enlighten our spiritual perception than to enlighten us prophetically. But the two go together. The wicked can't unlock the mysteries of Daniel's prophecies ("none of the wicked will understand") because their spiritual path is crooked and so is their spiritual understanding. The ceremonial law will enlighten us both spiritually and prophetically. According to Ellen White, only those who are being sanctified, advancing in the practical Christian virtues, will advance in spiritual and prophetic understanding. So the number one cause of our dwarfed prophetic understanding is our dwarfed Christian experience. We need to repent.

I suggest that in addition to acknowledging that we need to understand the ceremonial law and the prophecies better than we do, we also need to pause before we defend our old positions in the name of guarding the light. I was glad to see your post Daryl, urging that Jean and Bob look at each others material seriously before they respond. Let’s slow down and listen to each other. And it would also help if we digested one topic before we move on to the next. As it is we are dealing with several topics at once, and not going into much depth with any of them.

I have a high regard for William Miller and our pioneers. When I read their material I am impressed with the accuracy and depth of their understanding. I am not complementing myself here. Compared to them, I think we have regressed in our understanding of prophecy and are in danger of thinking that we are defending their positions when we may not accurately understand what they taught. Isn't that a real possibility? It happens all the time with the scriptures - we think we are defending the position of the scriptures, but after closer study find out at times that our defense is of our own ideas, not the truth. And it's not a bad thing to make that discovery. In fact, if that has never happened to us, we should be alarmed.

Having said that though, we have to realize that the pioneers were not always right. I think in some cases the pioneers made a correct initial application of a prophecy, but they failed to consider that there might be a future application. In other cases, they may have simply been wrong. I haven't come across any blatant errors myself, but according to Sister White, MANY opinions held by the conservative Adventists of her day were wrong. While I have the highest regard for Uriah Smith's Daniel and the Revelation and often refer to it, Ellen White's ringing endorsement of it needs to be understood in the context of her other (later?) statements that have been quoted above, and tempered by our knowledge of the fact that Uriah Smith partook of the spirit of ridicule and unbelief that infected most of the delegates to the 1888 conference and because of this, came down on the wrong side of the issue. My memory of what ensued is that he did not regain his bearings regarding the 1888 message for many months - if he ever did. The same thing - failure to grow in the practical Christian virtues - seems to have caused the demise of Jones and Waggoner as well. In their case, pride and bitterness seem to have taken root in their lives, and their prophetic understanding was extinguished.

So, what can we do? You and Bob view futurism as a threat to our doctrinal integrity. But those of us who think certain prophecies have a dual application are just as concerned as you and Bob are if it means abandoning any of the basic time elements of the 2300 day prophecy. We’ve been told by our prophet that the 1843 time chart is correct. So, abandoning the 2300 day prophecy is the opposite of what we’re advocating.

But there are more basic issues that I'd like to deal with before spending much more time on the dual application issue. I’d like us to use this thread to examine the historical and modern causes our dwarfed understanding of the ceremonial system. And while we examine the causes of our retarded understanding, let’s look for the “ASPECTS OF TRUTH WHICH ARE DIMLY SEEN, CONNECTIONS THAT ARE NOT UNDERSTOOD, AND FAR-REACHING DEPTHS IN THE LAW OF GOD THAT ARE UNCOMPREHENDED.”

[This message has been edited by Mark Shipowick (edited November 17, 2001).]

Few people would disagree with the idea that it takes a spiritual person to understand prophecy and the ceremonial law correctly. But what do we mean by a “spiritual person?” Ezekiel’s temple vision gives us some help.

Ezekiel’s vision, regardless of the fact that was not built is clearly important. It is the only temple description that is interspersed with THREE admonitions to pay careful attention to each detail and to relate it faithfully to the people. Ezekiel 40:4, 43:10-12, and 44:5-8. Here are the passages:

1) And the man said unto me, Son of man, behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears, and set thine heart upon all that I shall show thee; for to the intent that I might show [them] unto thee [art] thou brought hither: declare all that thou seest to the house of Israel. Ez 40:4.

2) Thou son of man, show the house to the house of Israel, THAT THEY MAY BE ASHAMED OF THEIR INIQUITIES: and let them measure the pattern. AND IF THEY BE ASHAMED of all that they have done, show them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write [it] in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them. This [is] the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the WHOLE LIMIT THEREOF ROUND ABOUT [SHALL BE] MOST HOLY. BEHOLD, THIS [IS] THE LAW OF THE HOUSE. Ez 43:10-12.

3) And the Lord said unto me, Son of man, mark well, and behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears all that I say unto thee concerning all the ordinances of the house of the Lord, and all the laws thereof; and mark well the entering in of the house, with every going forth of the sanctuary. Ez 44:5.

The sanctuary, including Ezekiel’s temple, is the gospel in type, and if it is a powerful revelation of the gospel, then the testimony of the Spirit will use it to enlighten us and its lessons will ultimately be accompanied by the latter rain. Those who are familiar with the writings of Sister White may remember that she saw that the mighty angel of Revelation 18 pointed directly to the heavenly sanctuary as he lightened the earth with his glory. Early Writings, pages 254-256.

Here is another quote from Sister White on the importance of the sanctuary as depicted in Daniel and Revelation: “When the books of Daniel and Revelation are better understood, believers will have an ENTIRELY different religious experience. THEY WILL BE GIVEN SUCH GLIMPSES OF THE HEAVENLY GATES THAT HEART AND MIND WILL BE IMPRESSED WITH THE CHARACTER THAT ALL MUST DEVELOP IN ORDER TO REALIZE THE BLESSEDNESS WHICH IS TO BE THE REWARD OF THE PURE IN HEART.” Testimonies to Ministers Page 114.

Notice the similarity of this quote to the angel’s instruction to Ezekiel above. Sister White states that the divine descriptions of the “heavenly gates” or sanctuary will impress us with our own deficiencies of character and sins. This is almost identical to the angel’s instruction: “Thou son of man, show the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.” Ez 43:10-12

Sister White refers to the ‘heavenly gates’ of Revelation. Similarly, Ezekiel’s temple has three gates to the outer court: one for the Prince on the east, and two for the people - one on the north and one on the south. Ezekiel 44: 2, 3 and 46:1-3 and 8-10. On each of the twelve projecting walls or pillars that line the gates of the people to the outer court are palm trees, a symbol of spiritual Israel’s victory over sin. Ezekiel 40:10 and 16. The lesson for us here is that no one is permitted entry to the temple and its courts who is not an overcomer. In order to be admitted to even the outer court of Ezekiel’s temple, victory over sin is essential. (I believe that Ezekiel’s temple describes the church of the latter rain, but I’ll come back to that another day I hope.) Similarly, Christ’s address to the seven churches of Revelation begins in the same way as Ezekiel‘s temple vision; each of the seven churches to whom the book is written is charged with its privilege and duty to overcome. Ezekiel’s vision and Revelation agree that unless we are advancing in the active Christian virtues, overcoming sin in our daily lives, our understanding of the sanctuary will be limited. We will be on the outside looking in, scratching our heads.

But if we set our hearts to do right, we are invited to come boldly to the throne of grace and ask Jesus to open our understanding. It is after we accept the challenge and admonition of the True Witness to repent and overcome in Revelation 2 and 3 that the doors of the sanctuary are thrown open to us in chapter 4. The same sequence is confirmed in Ezekiel’s temple vision:

“Thou son of man, show the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern. AND IF THEY BE ASHAMED of all that they have done, SHOW THEM THE FORM OF THE HOUSE, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write [it] in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them. This [is] the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the WHOLE LIMIT THEREOF ROUND ABOUT [SHALL BE] MOST HOLY. BEHOLD, THIS [IS] THE LAW OF THE HOUSE.” Ez 43:10-12. Uriah Smith, Alonzo Jones and E.J. Waggoner, the most skilled prophetic expositors the church has seen apart from Miller and James and Ellen White, are warnings to us of the consequences of failing to overcome. Their prophetic understanding and their Christian experience suffered, in the cases of Jones and Waggoner, fatally it seems. How should we be looking to ourselves and reaching out for God, if the faith of these favored ones was derailed? But again, God stands ready to strengthen and establish our faith if we set our wills to do His will.

Mark, thank you for challenging us to better understand the relationship between living without sin and the sanctuary.

From what I read it seems to me that you are under the impression that we must first overcome sin before we can be admittted to the outer court. Is that what you meant to say, or did I misunderstand you?

My personal studies have led me to believe that overcoming sin takes place in the outer court. That's where we confess and forsake individual sins until we experience the miracle of rebirth, a complete transformation of character.

If I'm interpreting the sanctuary correctly it would seem that we gradually crucify our old man character defects in the outer court on the altar. Once we come to the place in our journey where there are no pet darling imperfections we are unwilling to crucify the old man is considered dead.

Once dead the old man is buried in the laver and then we are raised a new man in Christ. We receive the sinless seed of the new man and the Holy Spirit then takes up residence within us upon the throne of our soul temple.

Next, we move into the holy place where the Holy Spirit empowers us to grow in grace and to mature morally in the fruit of the Spirit. As I understand it, being in the holy place stage of growth and development has nothing to do with discovering unknown moral defects of character.

Rather, being in the holy place symbolizes imitating the example of Jesus as He grew in grace from childhood to manhood. This type of growth does not involve overcoming sin, but instead it involves becoming more and more mature in the fruit of the Spirit. Nothing in the furnishings of the holy place suggests overcoming unknown imperfections of character.

That's probably enough for now. How do the rest of you feel about these observations?

Hello Mr. Shipowick

May I ask for some clarification from you, about what you view as "futurism?"

Also; in light of Rev.3:18; how would you view the matter of "overcoming our sins."

As I study the Laodicean message of Revelation; I see some similar concerns to what you are raising; but I think also, there are some inherent cautions about how and when our "overcoming" must take place in order for it to be genuine, and sustained; thereby forming our actual, and observable character. From what I am seeing; the enclosed text says some really profound things about "over-coming," and yet, the sanctuary is not even mentioned...That is an interesting point to me...but I had better stop here and enclose the text; while waiting for your reply:

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Also, in light of "new light," or "additional Truths," check out my signature on all my posts. How does this figure into the equation you have introduced us to?

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"...you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3

DavidTBattler

Here is some information that outlines some of the concerns/cautions I alluded to above:

ST.1884-03-27.007
In these days of delusion, every one who is established in the truth will have to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints. Every variety of error will be brought out in the mysterious working of Satan, which would, if it were possible, deceive the very elect, and turn them from the truth. There will be human wisdom to meet,--the wisdom of learned men, who, as were the Pharisees, are teachers of the law of God, but do not obey the law themselves. There will be human ignorance and folly to meet in disconnected theories arrayed in new and fantastic dress,--theories that it will be all the more difficult to meet because there is no reason in them.

ST.1884-03-27.008
There will be false dreams and false visions, which have some truth, but lead away from the original faith. The Lord has given men a rule by which to detect them: "To the law and to the testimony; if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." If they belittle the law of God, if they pay no heed to his will as revealed in the testimonies of his Spirit, they are deceivers. They are controlled by impulse and impressions, which they believe to be from the Holy Spirit, and consider more reliable than the inspired word. They claim that every thought and feeling is an impression of the Spirit; and when they are reasoned with out of the Scriptures, they declare that they have something more reliable. But while they think that they are led by the Spirit of God, they are in reality following an imagination wrought upon by Satan.

ST.1884-03-27.009
Their character was described and their doom denounced by the ancient prophets. It was ordained of old that those who unsettle faith in the word of God should bear the condemnation of God.
ST.1884-03-27.010
Jude says, "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not." This will be the sure fate of all the characters described by Jude, who depart from God, and lead others away from the truth. Although the Lord gave Israel the greatest evidences of his favor, and upon condition of obedience, the rich promise that they should be to him a peculiar people, a royal nation, yet because of their unbelief and disobedience he could not fulfill the promise. Because of their transgressions, he removed his restraining power over their enemies, the ungodly nations around them, and did not protect them as he had done.
ST.1884

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"...you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3

DavidTBattler

Mike, the palms on the pillars of the gateways to the outer court to me mean only that we have to genuinely want to do the will of God to be admitted. I didn't mean to suggest that we have to be consistently victorious over sin - although that is what its "all about".

Battler, I don't have any fight with what you are saying. A healthy skepticism of dreams and vision and new light is good. But I think you'd agree that it is equally healthy to be open minded. Sister White also has a lot to say in that regard.

Luther taught justification by faith and God used him powerfully. But he didn’t fully understand the role of Christ as mediator of the New Covenant in writing God’s law on our hearts. The purpose of Adventism as I see it is to restore the biblical teaching that sanctification is possible even in our lifetime. Christ our Righteousness means sanctification by abiding in him and allowing his influence to remake us into the moral image of God. Biblical perfection is the end result of sanctification. Worldly perfectionism is a side issue.

Let’s talk about sanctification and Christ, the sin pardoning redeemer. A redeemer is someone that liberates us from enslavement.

Our goal is to be like Christ, and God promises that the children will be like the parent. Sometimes I feel like I am making progress in that direction, but a lot of the time I feel very inadequate, and just have to trust God that I am accepted. I try not to dwell on my shortcomings, but I often have a nagging sense of my own unworthiness. At any rate, the advice ‘forgetting those things that are behind, I press on towards the high calling of God’ usually brings me back on track. I believe that the promise that “sin will not have dominion over you” can be claimed right now by every child of God, and that Christ will complete the good work that he has begun in us.

[This message has been edited by Mark Shipowick (edited November 21, 2001).]

Mark, that sounds better to me. But I think it is important to clarify that before we can experience the holy place we must first get beyond the mere "desire" to do the will of God. My studies have led me to believe that we must first completely crucify our old man habits of sin, our defects of character, before we can enter the holy place. Is that how you understand it?

Mark wrote:

"Biblical perfection is the end result of sanctification."

It is my understanding that sanctification begins the moment we receive the sinless seed of the new man. See Eph 4:24; 1 Peter 1:23 and 1 John 3:9. It begins the moment we crucify every defect of character. It begins the moment we enter the holy place. It cannot start while we're still in the outer court. The process of sanctification cannot begin while we are still clinging to some favorite moral imperfection.

As I see it, sanctification begins after we're born again and start walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man in the holy place. It has nothing to do with sinning and repenting (justification accommodates those aspects of salvation in the outer court). It is the process of maturing in the fruit of the Spirit as we imitate the example of Jesus.

We are always free to leave the sanctuary of our salvation and take our chances outside the gates. But we must first resurrect, as it were, our old man mind (which should not be confused with sinful flesh nature). Walking in the mind of the old man we are sure to sin.

Once we accept the gift of repentance the Spirit empowers us to confess and forsake our sin in the outer court. It also gives God the legal right to restore us back to the mind of the new man and back to the holy place, where we resume growing in grace, maturing in the fruit of the Spirit.

As I see it, known moral sins cannot happen while we are in the holy place. We do not overcome sin while we're in the holy place. The only thing that happens while we're in the holy place is that we imitate the holy example of Jesus, which has nothing to do with discovering unknown defects of character.

Does this make sense? And does misunderstanding justification and sanctification cause us to fall behind in our understanding of prophecy?

Mark

You make a valid point that THERE IS VICTORY IN CHRIST!

I would like to see you expand on that end of your explanation a bit, if you get the time...

Quote by Mike Lowe

"Mark, that sounds better to me. But I think it is important to clarify that before we can experience the holy place we must first get beyond the mere "desire" to do the will of God. My studies have led me to believe that we must first completely crucify our old man habits of sin, our defects of character, before we can enter the holy place. Is that how you understand it?"

Hello Mike

One of the most interesting facts, to me, about the Christian religion, is that involving the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Your comments, in this quote, may help us to shed some light, on the true, face value of the Atonement.

But, first, I have a question...The thing that makes Christianity, truly Christian, is this Atonement of Christ. One of the reasons why, is the fact that He could not crucify Himself...It had to be done to Him. "He suffered the death that was our's; that we might live the life that was His..." (DA 25).

Similarly; I don't understand how we can possibly crucify ourselves. If I tried, I might be able to nail down one hand, and both feet; but how would I nail down the other hand? Is it Biblical to say that "We must crucify the old habits...?" Can we actually do that?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

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"...you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3

DavidTBattler

David, excellent point on crucifixion. I would like to also add that Jesus was willingly crucified. Which I assume would apply to us as well, that is, we must be willing to have our old man habits of sin crucified.

I guess I was assuming or taking for granted that it was understood we cannot crucify our own moral defects of character. But there is a fine line here that is not always easy for me to discern.

What is the difference between the Christian and non-christian who exercizes patience when a situation is particularly taxing. The temporal results are the same from a human point of view, but from a divine point of view they are vastly different. And that difference no doubt has something to do with who we credit with our ability to be patient.

So, what about all those moral defects of character we overcome in the outer court before we enter the holy place? By what means do we overcome? Well, from what I can gather on the subject, the Holy Spirit is outside impressing us to give up this and that moral sin. And it continues this way until we come to the place where there are no more pet sins we are unwilling to give up.

During this time, while we are in the outer court beholding Christ and Him crucified, the Holy Spirit is influencing us from the outside of our soul temple to cease from sin. But not until we surrender that last remaining stronghold, that final pet sin, do we experience the miracle of rebirth. Then the Spirit moves from the outside to the inside where He can reign supreme upon the undivided heart of our soul temple.

The Holy Spirit will never share our soul temple with Satan. He cannot occupy a divided heart. And our heart is divided if we are clinging to even one of the least of of our pet sins. We might have responded to the influence of the Spirit while beholding our crucified Saviour in the outer court and we might have given up all kinds of nasty defects of character (i.e., lying, stealing, drugs, smoking, etc), but so long as we indulge even the smallest pet sin all of our victories are no different than what the common non-christian is able to generate.

All good and right impulses to cease from sin originate with the influence of the Holy Spirit, but they don't always end up with the Spirit empowering us with the results. If we are unwilling to relinquish one of our pet sins, then whatever victories we might be experiencing in other areas of our life are self actuated.

The key point to keep in mind here is that anyone who is unwilling - "unwilling" being the key word - anyone who is unwilling to give up a pet sin is not experiencing Spirit powered victories in the other areas of his life, regardless of how sanctified it might appear to the unwitting observer.

All this should not be taken to mean that once we're born again we will never, ever be able to revert back to our old man habits of sin. Once we consent to the complete crucifixion of our old man on the cross of Christ we receive the sinless seed of the new man, we experience the miracle of rebirth. The Holy Spirit moves inside us to sit upon the throne of our soul temple.

Once the Spirit is seated upon our soul temple the victories we experience over temptation, and the growth we enjoy maturing in the fruit of the Spirit, is the result of the Holy Spirit empowering us to use our faculties of mind and body to imitate the holy, blameless, spotless example of sweet Jesus.

Any victories over sin and temptation prior to our receiving the sinless seed of the new man are the results of human will power motivated by the holy influence of the Spirit of God. Although it is also possible that Satan will exercise his hellish influence to motivate us to do the right thing for the wrong reasons just to deceive us into believing we are saved.

The only way we can be absolutely sure our experience as a Christian is the direct result of Spirit powered obedience is to know that we are not secretly practicing some unholy vice. If we know in our heart of hearts that we are living an undivided life for Jesus and His kingdom, then we may know for sure we are saved and that our victories are Spirit motivated and Spirit actuated.

Is that the way you see it?

Quote by Mike

The Holy Spirit will never share our soul temple with Satan. He cannot occupy a divided heart. And our heart is divided if we are clinging to even one of the least of of our pet sins. We might have responded to the influence of the Spirit while beholding our crucified Saviour in the outer court and we might have given up all kinds of nasty defects of character (i.e., lying, stealing, drugs, smoking, etc), but so long as we indulge even the smallest pet sin all of our victories are no different than what the common non-christian is able to generate.

To All who are following this topic

I want to ask a question re the above quote, and I will be back on the week end to explain more...

Is there anything wrong in this quote? What is the Bible truth re the Holy Spirit dwelling in us?

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"...you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3

DavidTBattler

I welcome all such friendly, constructive responses to what I've posted above, that is, the entire post, including the extract David quoted.

In our Sabbath School lessons this quarter we are studying end-time prophecies. We began the quarter with a look at the principles of prophetic interpretation. The first lesson was good and covered some important material. But what troubles me about it is what it did not say. It did not touch on some important principles of prophetic interpretation that are falling into disrepute among us.

Historically Adventism has placed emphasis on a concept called present truth. Have you all noticed that we don’t hear as much about present truth today as we used to? However, present truth was what historically defined us.

The Sabbath is an example of present truth. It is both a doctrine and an obligation and privilege.

Describing the experience of the Millerites, Ellen White tells us that prior to the disappointment of 1844, those who rejected the present truth of the first angel’s message were barred from accepting the second. Similarly, those who accepted the first, but not the second were barred from understanding the third. And she makes some startling statements that have become a source of embarrassment to many of our theologians about the dire results of rejecting the third angel’s message. She says the doors of the heavenly sanctuary were shut against the rejecters of present truth and more than this, they fell under the influence of Satan. In other word, the rejection of present truth closes the doors of the mind to a true prophetic understanding and places us under the banner of another leader.

Because present truth is not only defined by doctrine, but also delineates new privileges and duties, in order to advance in prophetic understanding present truth not only has to be understood, it has to be worked into the life and experience of the individual by faith. Present truth not only has to be understood, it has to be lived. If it is not lived, our prophetic understanding will become confused.

Clifford Goldstein, editor of this quarter’s lessons is a careful bible student and he likely knows all this. I don’t think he overlook it but maybe he thought it was not important enough to mention.

But consider what happened in the church during the alpha/pantheism crises of the 1900’s. There is no general agreement among SDA theologians today for the cause of such a gross error gaining widespread acceptance in the church, but in my view, Weiland and Short’s explanation is the most plausible. The acceptance of the heresy was caused by the rejection of present truth.

So friends, here we are, 100 years later with more signs than ever that as a church we are not living up to the light we have in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. And yet we think we are doctrinally rich and increased in understanding. In fact, we are ripe for the grossest deceptions. Will God allow Himself to be inquired of by a church that has made human plans and human standards its wisdom? Never. He will shake us, and attempt to wake us up. How much prophecy can a sleeping woman understand? Although the virgins knew of the soon return of Christ, how many of them put their prophetic understanding into practice. None. Fortunately, someone outside of their number shouted out the warning - behold the bridgroom cometh! There was no mistaking the message - even by those who were out of oil. How sad though that none of the virgins were ready for the bridegroom.

Jesus asked, “When the son of man cometh, will he find faith on the earth?”

This post has been edited to inform everybody that this topic has been moved into the SDA Church Issues forum where this post in its unedited version still exists. - Daryl.

[ April 13, 2002: Message edited by: Daryl Fawcett ]