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Re: Was the Death of Jesus Necessary For the Race to be Saved? [Re: Darius] #87271
03/30/07 03:56 PM
03/30/07 03:56 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
 Originally Posted By: Darius
It is easy to make a causal relationship between two events after they have occured.


Unlike Olympic diving, truth is not judged by degree of difficulty.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Was the Death of Jesus Necessary For the Race to be Saved? [Re: asygo] #87284
03/30/07 09:07 PM
03/30/07 09:07 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
I have created a separate topic from all of the posts here.

I am not certain if the topic name accurately reflects this topic, therefore, if it should be renamed, please let me know.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Was the Death of Jesus Necessary For the Race to be Saved? [Re: Daryl] #87294
03/31/07 01:17 AM
03/31/07 01:17 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

The word race should not be used because it was not anywhere in the bible and it only refer to running the race. So, that means that that question is not valid at this time.

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Re: Was the Death of Jesus Necessary For the Race to be Saved? [Re: Daryl] #87295
03/31/07 01:24 AM
03/31/07 01:24 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
We know it was sufficient, by verses such as Rom. 5:10, which says we are reconciled by His death. The question of necessity is more challenging. One could argue that the mere fact that it happened argues to its necessity, since why else would God have permitted His Son to die?

From the Spirit of Prophecy we know that from God's perspective, the death of Christ is not necessary in order for Him to forgive, since He was willing to forgive Lucifer without Christ's having to die. Why, then, should Christ's death be necessary for man, if not for angels? I think the following statement from the Desire of Ages speaks to this:

 Quote:
But even as a sinner, man was in a different position from that of Satan. Lucifer in heaven had sinned in the light of God's glory. To him as to no other created being was given a revelation of God's love.

Understanding the character of God, knowing His goodness, Satan chose to follow his own selfish, independent will. This choice was final. There was no more that God could do to save him. But man was deceived; his mind was darkened by Satan's sophistry. The height and depth of the love of God he did not know. For him there was hope in a knowledge of God's love. By beholding His character he might be drawn back to God. (DA 761, 762)


The following statement by George Fifield amplifies the idea:

 Quote:
The life of Christ was not the price paid to the father for our pardon; but the life was the price which the Father paid to so manifest his loving power as to bring us to that repentant attitude of mind where he could pardon us freely. (God is Love)


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Was the Death of Jesus Necessary For the Human Race to be Saved? [Re: Anonymous] #87296
03/31/07 01:25 AM
03/31/07 01:25 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,122
Nova Scotia, Canada
It is my thinking that the human race is what is being referred to in this topic, however, it probably would be clearer to add the word human in front of the word race. \:\)


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Was the Death of Jesus Necessary For the Human Race to be Saved? [Re: Tom] #87297
03/31/07 01:25 AM
03/31/07 01:25 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
We shouldn't use any words that aren't in the Bible?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Was the Death of Jesus Necessary For the Race to be Saved? [Re: Darius] #87318
04/01/07 03:53 AM
04/01/07 03:53 AM
C
crater  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 989
United States
 Originally Posted By: Darius
Asygo, where was Eve when the command not to eat of the tree was given?


 Quote:
The angels graciously and lovingly gave them the information they desired. They also gave them the

30

sad history of Satan's rebellion and fall. They then distinctly informed them that the tree of knowledge was placed in the garden to be a pledge of their obedience and love to God; that the high and happy estate of the holy angels was to be retained upon condition of obedience; that they were similarly situated; that they could obey the law of God and be inexpressibly happy, or disobey and lose their high estate and be plunged into hopeless despair. {SR 29.3}

They told Adam and Eve that God would not compel them to obey--that He had not removed from them power to go contrary to His will; that they were moral agents, free to obey or disobey. There was but one prohibition that God had seen fit to lay upon them as yet. If they should transgress the will of God they would surely die. They told Adam and Eve that the most exalted angel, next in order to Christ, refused obedience to the law of God which He had ordained to govern heavenly beings; that this rebellion had caused war in heaven, which resulted in the rebellious being expelled therefrom, and every angel was driven out of heaven who had united with him in questioning the authority of the great Jehovah; and that this fallen foe was now an enemy to all that concerned the interest of God and His dear Son. {SR 30.1}

They told them that Satan purposed to do them harm, and it was necessary for them to be guarded, for they might come in contact with the fallen foe; but he could not harm them while they yielded obedience to God's command, for, if necessary, every angel from heaven would come to their help rather than that he should in any way do them harm. But if they disobeyed the command of God, then Satan would have power to ever annoy, perplex, and trouble them. If they remained steadfast against the first insinuations


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Re: Was the Death of Jesus Necessary For the Race to be Saved? [Re: crater] #87322
04/01/07 01:20 PM
04/01/07 01:20 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

I think it is easy to see who is wrong about what Eve knew. May God grant us the boldness to think for ourselves instead of blindly accepting what an "authority" has said.

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Re: Was the Death of Jesus Necessary For the Race to be Saved? [Re: asygo] #87323
04/01/07 01:27 PM
04/01/07 01:27 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Asygo, who said anything about hindsight and foresight. It is not a very wise idea to change the subject in order to force a victory.

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Re: Was the Death of Jesus Necessary For the Race to be Saved? [Re: Darius] #87332
04/01/07 03:38 PM
04/01/07 03:38 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
 Quote:
The question is whether the salvation of the human race was predicated on the death of Jesus Christ. The answer is No! This does not mean that Jesus did not die or that his death was meaningless.

Didn’t Christ Himself say, “For the Son of man also came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45).

 Quote:
Asygo, where was Eve when the command not to eat of the tree was given?

Where she was is not important. The important thing is that she knew God's prohibition (Gen. 3:2,3) and, more than that, she knew God – her Creator and Sustainer, who had given her life, love and everything good that she enjoyed. Nevertheless, she chose to believe an unknown serpent who had never done anything for her.

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