I wasn't sure exactly where to put this, so I hope this forum is approximately appropriate.

The debate over whether or not to display the American flag in the sanctuary was recently brought to my attention. Has anyone here actually put some thought and research into it, and come to some conclusions? I'd like to hear the conclusions and the supporting evidence. Thanks.

I haven't researched the subject but I think that the question as phrased would only pertain to churches in the U. S. A.

I'm fairly sure that you wouldn't find an American flag in a JW Hall.

I wasn't sure exactly where to put this, so I hope this forum is approximately appropriate.

The debate over whether or not to display the American flag in the sanctuary was recently brought to my attention. Has anyone here actually put some thought and research into it, and come to some conclusions? I'd like to hear the conclusions and the supporting evidence. Thanks.

With this sudden resurgence of patriotic display, we need to be mindful of flag protocol, and remember to display our national banner in a way that shows reverence and respect. After all, the U.S. Flag is a spiritual symbol of our values, aspirations, ideals, and history as a people united in the cause of liberty and democracy.

On church flags – a little more history [1-2-07]

There is some history to the flags in churches. One does not typically find national flags in churches overseas. In the United States the practice seems to have developed during the Taft administration when the world was heading toward WWI. Franklin Roosevelt issued a statement requesting churches to have the flag placed in churches as we entered WWII. My memory is that this was done reluctantly and at the advice of and pressure of Secretary of War Stimson. The cross on the Christian flag is one inch taller than the eagle on the American flag.

John Rauhut

From at least the mid-nineteenth century onward, the flag has often appeared inside and outside Methodist churches and at church gatherings during periods of national crisis. Such is not surprising, given that the United States and the Methodist denomination were born at roughly the same time and grew up together: Methodist identity has been strongly linked with the nation and its ideals of democracy and liberty. Methodist writers throughout the nineteenth century, for example, saw the country as their "parish" and urged Methodists to play a key role in the establishment — and perpetuation — of the "Christian nation." Nowhere was this connection between duty to God and duty to country more obvious than in the Methodist Episcopal Church during the 1860's. .....

......Conover was not alone in his concern about subordinating Christian (or intended Christian) symbols to a national flag. Others were also troubled by the blending of religion with nationalism, remembering the German helmets in World War I emblazoned with "Gott mit uns" ("God with us"). But it was the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam conflict that forced many churches to reconsider the placement of flags in the worship space. More recently, because of the international ecumenical movement and advances in technology, it has been the greater sense of global Christianity — Christians linked by baptism to the Kingdom that transcends all nations — that has caused many United Methodists to rethink the use of the flag. Can the flag, which to many symbolizes economic and military might, stand near the cross with its meanings of humility, servanthood, and selfless sacrifice? Does "Old Glory" in the congregation’s place of worship conflict with the glorification of our unbounded, nationless God? Can the prophetic word — and even God’s word of judgment — to a nation be heard when that nation’s flag stands in a place of honor?

Step out from under the rebel flag, and take your stand under the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel. {RH, July 7, 1904 par. 13}

Lose Not One Opportunity to Unite With Temperance Work.--I am sorry that there has not been a more lively interest among our people of late years to magnify this branch of the Lord's work. We cannot afford to lose one opportunity to unite with the temperance work in any place. Although
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the cause of temperance in foreign countries does not always advance as rapidly as we could wish, yet in some places decided success has attended the efforts of those who engaged in it. In Europe we found the people sound on this question. On one occasion, when I accepted an invitation to speak to a large audience on the subject of temperance, the people did me the honor of draping above the pulpit the American flag. My words were received with the deepest attention, and at the close of my talk a hearty vote of thanks was accorded me. I have never, in all my work on this question, had to accept one word of disrespect.--Letter 278, 1907. {Te 225.5}

On Sunday she addressed the largest crowd she was to encounter in any of her public efforts in Europe. The president of the local temperance society had invited her to make a temperance address at the soldiers' military gymnasium, the largest hall in the city. The hall was packed with 1,600 people for the occasion. Obviously the interest in temperance reform was high. {EGWE 122.1}

When she arrived, Mrs. White found an American flag placed as a canopy above the pulpit, "an attention," she remarked, "which I highly appreciated." {EGWE 122.2}

In the audience to hear her were many prominent citizens, including the Bishop of the State Church and a number of other clergymen. {EGWE 122.3}

Yet important truths concerning the heavenly sanctuary and the great work there carried forward for man's redemption were to be taught by the earthly sanctuary and its services. {PP 357.2}

Thus in the work of Christ for our redemption, symbolized by the sanctuary service, "mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other." Psalm 85:10. {PP 349.2}

The great truths set forth by the types in the service of the sanctuary were brought to view, and faith grasped the central object of all that system--the Lamb of God, that was to take away the sin of the world. {Ed 47.2}

I just don't see it being a big deal either way, but I rather enjoy seeing flags where ever they are, and not just the US flag. If someone can show from the Bible or EGW that it is wrong to have one in the church then that would be the way to go but I don't think that is possible.

A cross in or on a church? Why is it wrong? The biggest objection I've ever heard is that it's a Catholic thing, like that is a reason to discard something.

Redfog

The origin of something has no bearing on somethings present usage. The cross is a symbol of Christianity, along with fish and doves. Are symbols wrong?

Redfog

Nicodemus was being drawn to Christ. As the Saviour explained to him concerning the new birth, he longed to have this change wrought in himself. By what means could it be accomplished? Jesus answered the unspoken question: "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." {DA 174.3}

Here was ground with which Nicodemus was familiar. The symbol of the uplifted serpent made plain to him the Saviour's mission. When the people of Israel were dying from the sting of the fiery serpents, God directed Moses to make a serpent of brass, and place it on high in the midst of the congregation. Then the word was sounded throughout the encampment that all who would look upon the serpent should live. The people well knew that in itself the serpent had no power to help them. It was a symbol of Christ. As the image made in the likeness of the
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destroying serpents was lifted up for their healing, so One made "in the likeness of sinful flesh" was to be their Redeemer. Rom. 8:3. Many of the Israelites regarded the sacrificial service as having in itself virtue to set them free from sin. God desired to teach them that it had no more value than that serpent of brass. It was to lead their minds to the Saviour. Whether for the healing of their wounds or the pardon of their sins, they could do nothing for themselves but show their faith in the Gift of God. They were to look and live. {DA 174.4}

Those who had been bitten by the serpents might have delayed to look. They might have questioned how there could be efficacy in that brazen symbol. They might have demanded a scientific explanation. But no explanation was given. They must accept the word of God to them through Moses. To refuse to look was to perish. {DA 175.1}

Not through controversy and discussion is the soul enlightened. We must look and live. Nicodemus received the lesson, and carried it with him. He searched the Scriptures in a new way, not for the discussion of a theory, but in order to receive life for the soul. He began to see the kingdom of heaven as he submitted himself to the leading of the Holy Spirit. {DA 175.2}

There are thousands today who need to learn the same truth that was taught to Nicodemus by the uplifted serpent. They depend on their obedience to the law of God to commend them to His favor. When they are bidden to look to Jesus, and believe that He saves them solely through His grace, they exclaim, "How can these things be?" {DA 175.3}

It was Christ, by the power of His word, that caused the refreshing stream to flow for Israel. "They drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:4. He was the source of all temporal as well as spiritual blessings. Christ, the true Rock, was with them in all their wanderings. "They thirsted not when He led them through the deserts: He caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them; He clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out." "They ran in the dry places like a river." Isaiah 48:21; Psalm 105:41. {PP 411.2}

The smitten rock was a figure of Christ, and through this symbol the most precious spiritual truths are taught. As the life-giving waters flowed from the smitten rock, so from Christ, "smitten of God," "wounded for our transgressions," "bruised for our iniquities" (Isaiah 53:4, 5), the stream of salvation flows for a lost race. As the rock had been once smitten, so Christ was to be "once offered to bear the sins of many." Hebrews 9:28. Our Saviour was not to be sacrificed a second time; and it is only necessary for those who seek the blessings of His grace to ask in the name of Jesus, pouring forth the heart's desire in penitential prayer. Such prayer will bring before the Lord of hosts the wounds of Jesus, and then will flow forth afresh the life-giving blood, symbolized by the flowing of the living water for Israel.
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{PP 411.3}

There was the brass serpent on a pole, I have to say I had some trouble with this symbol as, I associate serpent with the adversary.

The serpent as adversary has some validity. Remember, Christ was made sin for us.

But when we take things farther than what God intends, we fall into idolatry of the symbols. Remember what Hezekiah called it: Nehushtan.

Are you relating the serpent as adversary in this particular setting or just in general?

As the image made in the likeness of the destroying serpents was lifted up for their healing, so One made "in the likeness of sinful flesh" was to be their Redeemer. Rom. 8:3.

I don't recall Nehushtan, incident. Thanks for pointing it out. Interesting that they had the relic still. The real significance must have been lost during that period.

Apparently, Nicodemus understood the significance of this symbol.

Just a thought; obviously, it is most likely that our churches wouldn't display the flag of the first beast, but what about the second beast of Rev 13?

Thank you for this remark. It should receive careful attention from Sabbathkeepers. (BTW - It is reported that the Papal flag was flown at a recent GC session.)

Just a thought; obviously, it is most likely that our churches wouldn't display the flag of the first beast, but what about the second beast of Rev 13?

Does 'allegiance to the flag' help prepare one to accept the mark of the beast? What are your thoughts

Were there flags in the way God set up the Israelites when He took them out of Egypt? Yes, there were. Each tribe had its own flag. But we should note that those flags were never used in the sanctuary or its services. The closest thing to a flag in the sanctuary would be the veils, representing Christ (Hebrews 10:20).

WDYT?

Likewise, the flag of the United States appears to be the most recognizable standard of the beast's image. This flag is a symbol of imperial domination and tyranny to many regions of the world. Canada's flag is sadly earning the same reputation.

Can a church or follower of the meek and lovely Lamb of God display this standard of the beast's image? What message is this sending to the multitudes who have been brutalized by the U.S. regime?

Christ said "my kingdom is not of this world" John 18:36. Thus, He would not fly a Roman flag. Does 'allegiance to the flag' help prepare one to accept the mark of the beast? What are your thoughts Crater?

Gordon

On one occasion, when I accepted an invitation to speak to a large audience on the subject of temperance, the people did me the honor of draping above the pulpit the American flag. My words were received with the deepest attention, and at the close of my talk a hearty vote of thanks was accorded me. I have never, in all my work on this question, had to accept one word of disrespect.--Te 225, 226 (1907).

Can a church or follower of the meek and lovely Lamb of God display this standard of the beast's image?

The "image to the beast" represents that form of apostate Protestantism which will be developed when the Protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas. {GC 445.2}

The "two horns like a lamb" well represent the character of the United States Government, as expressed in its two fundamental principles, Republicanism and Protestantism. These principles are the secret of our power and prosperity as a nation. {ST, November 1, 1899 par. 4}

Perhaps God wanted to avoid having contention over which tribe's flag should be first in line, or something like that....

Numbers 2:3 - And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies....

Numbers 10:14 - In the first place went the standard of the camp of the children of Judah according to their armies....

My own opinion matters little. I repeat what I read in the Bible and SOP regarding the third angel's message. Who dare conceal it?

While the USA will be first to enforce the Sunday law, all other nations (flags) will soon follow with a death decree. ...

The only safe flag is the blood-stained banner of Immanuel.

Revelation 13:11 - And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Revelation 13:14 - And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

It has been shown that the United States is the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns... {GC 578.3}

But what is the "image to the beast"? and how is it to be formed? The image is made by the two-horned beast, and is an image to the beast. {GC 443.1}

Is a nation's moral standing a factor to you whether or not it should plant its flag in the sanctuary?

This has been a most interesting topic.

I am wondering why EGW wasn't given any revelation against displaying flags in the sanctuary.

Were flags displayed in any of our SDA churches during the lifetime of EGW? If no, then that would explain the absence of any writings against it, however, where was she when the USA flag was draped in her honor? Was it in a SDA Church

I also understand from my reading, that the placing of the American flag in the churches began about the time of WWI. Which would have been near the time of or after her death.

I have also read that WWI "started" it, and that flag waving in church generally increases during times of war. It seems that when patriotism rises, we tend to mix it with Christianity.

flag waving in church generally increases during times of war.