Is there a specific point we are disagreeing upon?

Zyph

You make some good points.

The sanctuary "message," is simply wonderful, and wonderfully simple:

Come to Christ, EXACTLY the way you are.

"Thy way, O Lord, is in the sanctuary;" means that we can do this WITH CONFIDENCE.

Hebrews 10:19 "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,"

Dora

What would you class as a "complicated way" to explain the doctrines regarding the sanctuary?

Now look, folks, I have not disagreed with anything. I've pointed out that some things in the sanctuary service are spoken of as if they are foregone conclusions. It's true that the sacrificial lamb is obvious, and there are a plethora of texts that leap to mind to back that up. But it might not be so obvious to someone who has only looked at the topic superficially. And your words and concepts mean nothing if they're not backed up by scripture. I'm not disagreeing. Get it straight. I'm asking for scripture.

If what is being said is scriptural, there will be clear links or relationships with other texts and processes in scripture.

I don't understand how the sanctuary can mean so many different things. Surely it means what it means, and other things are using its processes as a framework for viewing different topics. But does that set the meaning in (God's) concrete?

I understand some of the dual applications - but some of those are a little iffy, I think.

Anyway, if ALL the sacrifices mean Jesus, why are there females of verious animals and birds sacrificed at times? What does that indicate?

Actually, I'm with Zyph. I know that the Sanctuary service is important, but haven't a clue what it all means. Can we study it here from the bottom up - explaining it to us ignorants as to how it applies, perhaps as if we had never studied it before ('cause I actually haven't)!

Thanks!

Zyph:
I don't know what the female animals means, still looking into that one. I know that it means something important and perhaps in this study it will eventually come out. But until then I am open to any study on that one.

The birds still mean Jesus. Especially the leprosy bird sacrifices. One innocent bird dies but the other one takes the blood and flies through the air to cleanse the earth, the water, and the air. All phases of cleansing come from the blood of the innocent sacrifice.

Sister Moss:
Lets get started. I will share what little I know and then if you will specifically respond with questions it will help me to try to answer your thoughts.

The sanctuary service is about several things. It is about building the building, it is about the sacrifices and death of Jesus, and it is about the fact of Jesus living in a human body, His own and in ours, and it is about the plan of salvation, and it is about the condesension of God, and about our revealing God in our hearts and revealing God to others through us. This is why the sanctuary service is so complicated, so big, and so important.

The simplest presentation of the sanctuary service is the wilderness tabernacle. All the other presentations keep adding and developing various themes. (Just to give you a brief list of the sanctuaries there is the wilderness tabernacle, Solomans temple, Ezekiels temple, the temple that was built in Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, and Zechariah, then there is Herods temple, then the temple of Jesus in His human flesh, the temple of the church, the temple of the individual, and the heavenly temple in the new Jerusalem. We could also throw in the temple of the garden of Eden and Noahs ark as well)

Does this make any sense so far.

Again, All who are reading: I posted this so we could study together, not because I knew the answers! I have many questions myself. But, as we each study our resources, then bring them here, we will learn. I learned something today when I was looking for something else! I will post it when it is the time.

David, maybe I should have said that much I have heard about the sanctuary in the past (for I hadn't studied it much for myself, either, until in the past two to three years) left me confused. I think what made it complicated to me, I have heard ministers saying it was so important to us, but, I never quite knew why. Just tonight, I asked my husband, to get another's opinion, what did he think is going on in heaven, is it necessary, and do we have any part to play in it, or can we just leave it all with Jesus, not be concerned about it. His first thought was that we could leave it to Jesus, that was his first thought.......then, we got to discussing why it just MIGHT be important that we are involved in it. I think his thinking began to change!

Mrs. Moss, when you say you have never studied the Sanctuary before, I don't think you are in the minority of SDAs. But, could you tell us, just what do you know about any or all of it, so we can have a starting point?

And, Zyph, those were interesting questions, esp. about the female sacrifices. My mind at once went to the illustration of the red heifer in Deut. 21:1-9. I cannot prove this to be a fact, and if anyone knows any quotes ,references from the SOP, I would like them very much. I have looked everywhere I know for them. Anyway, this comes from the book, "the Cross and its Shadow," by Stephen Haskell. I know he was one of the somewhat younger pioneers, and worked with all of the others. In fact, sometime after the death of Jas. White, Stephen asked Ellen white to marry him, which she kindly declined. So, I know that they knew each other well, whether she agreed with him on these subjects or not, I cannot say.

But, p.146-151 we find the "red heifer." why a "heifer?" I was looking for that, but could not find it. First, we wonder why there was a need for this offering. Why was the place of death, or/and the people who touch the dead considered unclean until purified? this I read: "this was to impress the people with the terrible nature of sin. that death came as a result of sin and was a representation of sin.Jas.1:14,15 the heifer was to be red, without one spot, without blemish, representing Him "who knew no sin."2Cor.5:21 to have always been free (not yoked) Just so, there was no power, only that of supreme heavenly love, that forced Christ toward the cross of Calvary.Jn.3:16

The red heifer was offered without the camp, showing that Christ died for all nations, tribes and people.Heb.13:12,13

The first time I read this next paragraph I cried:"The condescension and love of the Lord is wonderful. Lest some poor forlorn, discouraged soul should think he was not worthy to accept the offered sacrifice, the red heifer was not only taken without the camp, but to a rough valley, so rocky and utterly worthless that it had never even been plowed. No one had ever attempted to cultivate it; and yet here was the place chosen to sprinkle the blood of that special offering which typified Christ in a particular sense...."

Very good study. I was so glad when this topic was started. We are studying Daniel on Sabbaths and we are in Daniel 8 now.

I was sent through the mail a little book called "The Sanctuary Made Simple" by Lawrence Nelson and he does a good, but yet simple study on the sanctuary. He mentions how the sanctuary on earth teaches us how God solves the sin problem from the Heavenly Sanctuary. How the sin has to be separated from the sinner.

quote:

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Great Controversy
Page 489.1}

The intercession of Christ in man's behalf in the sanctuary above is as essential to the plan of salvation as was His death upon the cross. By His death He began that work which after His resurrection He ascended to complete in heaven.

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In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Avalee ]

In Leviticus 4:27-35 it tells us the first step in the process of separating the sin from the sinner:

Leviticus 4:27
And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;

Leviticus 4:28
Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.

Leviticus 4:29
And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

We have sinned..broken one of God's Laws..and we know what the penalty of sin is: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death. But our loving God does not want us to die so He has provided a way for us to become as if we had never sinned....The Holy Spirit convicts me of my sin, I repent and ask for forgiveness..believing in Christ as my Savior. I have to follow this divine plan if I want to be forgiven and have my sin separated from me.

Leviticus 4:31
...priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

In very simple terms here is 3 steps that are taken for the sin to be separated from the sinner:

1. A lamb must be brought to the court of the sanctuary as a sacrifice.(and not just any lamb..has to be without blemish)

The sinner must place HIS hands on the head of the lamb and confess his sin, thus transfering his sins to the lamb..a substitute.

3. The sinner then takes the life of the innocent lamb..taking the lamb's life for his sin instead of dying for his own sin.

4. The blood is then caught in a bowl and the priest takes the blood into the sanctuary's holy place and it is sprinkled before the veil of the sanctuary.

How hard it must have been for Adam to take the life of that first sacrifice?

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Avalee ]

In the construction of the wilderness sanctuary the people had just rebelled against God in the experience of the golden calf. God forgave them and in their gratitude they became willing to bring materials to Moses for the construction of the ark. So an essential component of the sanctuary service is a willing heart and a willingness to give. Exodus 35

Then God poured out His Spirit on Bezaleel and Aholiab, and various other peoples, to give them the skills necessary to build the intricate structure of the sanctuary. This is one of the OT displays of the granting of spiritual gifts. So another component of the sanctuary service is the presence and willingness to use the spiritual blessings granted by God. Exodus 36-39