As I have taught children for most of the years I have been in the church, this form of teaching is very appealing to me. I realize, though, that there is so much more to understand. As we are now living in what is surely very close to the time when the Sanctuary service, as we know it, will be closed, because there will be no more need for it, we are told many times how important is the part we are to play in these closing issues. But, if I don't know and understand my part how can I do it?

In Psalm 77:13, we read, "Thy way, O God is in the Sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

In Jn.14:1-3 Jesus has just told His disciples where He is going, and that he wants them (and us) with Him so much that He is going to prepare a place. Then, in v.4, He tells them that they "know the way." Thomas asks, "how can we know the way?"

And in v.6, "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me."

It seems so often this very important subject is presented in such a complicated way that we as "God's children," have great difficulty in our understanding it. By looking at it as the "sandbox illustration" which was given to the literal Children of Israel, and to us as spiritual Israel, I wonder if it can be made more clear?

[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: Dora ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dora:

It seems so often this very important subject is presented in such a complicated way that we as "God's children," have great difficulty in our understanding it. By looking at it as the "sandbox illustration" which was given to the literal Children of Israel, and to us as spiritual Israel, I wonder if it can be made more clear?

[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: Dora ]

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Dora what you wrote above is so right. It has been presented in such a complicated way sometimes that it is hard for some of us to understand. We are studying Daniel and Revelation every Sabbath afternoon at church. We are on Chapter 8 in Daniel and the last two weeks the person giving the class has been using the felts from Kindergarten to go through the sanctuary service. We have all been blessed by this study. I am looking forward to your study here about this most important subject. Thank you for starting it.

What does it mean, for Christ to be "our High Priest?" "The entire earthly service of the sinner bringing a lamb as a sin offering was again a great kindergarden lesson, making the way of salvation so simple that none could fail to comprehend it. when we remember that we have sinned, we remember our "lamb," confess our sins, and in His name they are forgiven; THEN He offociates as High Priest in our behalf before the Father.......Even the infinite love of the Father for His Son was increased by that act, (of laying down His life for us.)" From the Cross and its Shadow, Stephen Haskell

How humbling to think that jesus was MY forerunner! YOUR forerunner! we are told that when He entered heaven, a mighty Conqueror over death and the grave, before the entire heavenly host and representatives of other worlds, He entered a forerunner for US! He presented the "wave sheaf," those brought forth from their graves at the time of His resurrection, as a SAMPLE of the race He had died to redeem. And, Jesus directed the attention of all the hosts of heaven and other worlds down the road from where He had come...to watch ---for Royalty!! YES, royalty made so by His precious blood. Rev.1:6, 5:10 Poor, frail mortals, stumbling and often falling by the way; but when we reach the heavenly gate, we will enter as "heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ"Rom.8:17

When we are tempted by Satan to doubt God's love and care, remember that because of the great sacrifice made, you are so dear to the Father that "he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of His eye." Zech.2:8 Heaven and earth are closely united since Christ entered within the veil as our Forerunner. The attention of every angel in glory is centered upon those striving to follow in Christ's footsteps.1Pet.2:21

Absolutely amazing!! The heavenly host are watching for US to come over the same road that our Forerunner passed as a mighty conquerer over death and the grave!!

But, we cannot follow in His footsteps in our own strength, and for this reason, "in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God,to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succor them that are tempted. Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus."Heb.2:17,18; 3:1

While I appreciate that spiritual things are spiritually discerned, I don't believe God gave us these symbols with optional meanings. And some of what I've read here and elsewhere gives me an exceedingly uncomfortable feeling, because it isn't backed up with scripture.

You asked: "What does it mean for Jesus to be our High Priest?"

I would be interested to hear from participants in this topic, what, if anything, the following Scripture might have to do with this question, or in general, with the topic of the sanctuary we are discussing here:

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

I wonder if this is speaking of US as priests, called to minister to others, and for others.

You mentioned 1Cor.3:16,17. "We are the temple of
God..If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy." that brings to mind the story in Lev.10:1- of Nadab and Abihu. They were
priests, they defiled the temple of God, and they were destroyed. If the Holy Spirit is really living in us, THAT is what makes us His temple. These young men were openly rebellious, doubtless this wasn't the first time, God already knew that their MINDS were settled to do their own way, disregarding God. The "Shekinah glory" had left their temple, because they had rejected Him.
Does that make any sense to you?

I'm not sure but that many things in the Bible have more than one meaning, but, yes, we do need scripture to cause it to be seen to fit in. (Not US fitting it in, but, the Holy Spirit.) I probably have not made a bit of sense to you on this, forgive me. It isn't easy! How I wish we could sit down together, open the Bible and talk!
But, at noon, I was able to share all this with FT, and, he said, "yes, he understood what we have studied so far." and, he wanted to know more!! I thought that was wonderful, for it is the most he has ever tried to understand the sanctuary! And, you were a help, because of your questions! Isn't that great??

Each element has a specific identification in the Bible. But once you get through the baseline information the process portion takes over. The sanctuary system covers every aspect of the plan of salvation and it goes into more detail than we can grasp on earth. For eternity we can study the sanctuary service, and like the Bible it will eternally give us more and more understanding of God and His love for us.

So as questions are asked then we can go as deep as we need to understand the things of God.

I guess I'm giving you some honest feedback. If you can't demonstrate to me - a pseudo Adventist -the truths, how do you tell someone who is not in sympathy with Adventists? I'm not intentionally being difficult here. I've heard all the sermons, too. But if I see one thing, and you see something contrary - and I mean contrary - isn't there a problem? I've heard some things used to support opposing opinions on this forum. Surely if there is substance, then, like the sacrificial lamb representing Jesus, there will be irrefutable relationships that are clearly understood, and have scriptural support.

I understand that I should study this out for myself.

You make some good points.

The sanctuary "message," is simply wonderful, and wonderfully simple:

Come to Christ, EXACTLY the way you are.

"Thy way, O Lord, is in the sanctuary;" means that we can do this WITH CONFIDENCE.

Hebrews 10:19 "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,"

What would you class as a "complicated way" to explain the doctrines regarding the sanctuary?

If what is being said is scriptural, there will be clear links or relationships with other texts and processes in scripture.

I don't understand how the sanctuary can mean so many different things. Surely it means what it means, and other things are using its processes as a framework for viewing different topics. But does that set the meaning in (God's) concrete?

I understand some of the dual applications - but some of those are a little iffy, I think.

Anyway, if ALL the sacrifices mean Jesus, why are there females of verious animals and birds sacrificed at times? What does that indicate?

Thanks!

The birds still mean Jesus. Especially the leprosy bird sacrifices. One innocent bird dies but the other one takes the blood and flies through the air to cleanse the earth, the water, and the air. All phases of cleansing come from the blood of the innocent sacrifice.

Sister Moss:
Lets get started. I will share what little I know and then if you will specifically respond with questions it will help me to try to answer your thoughts.

The sanctuary service is about several things. It is about building the building, it is about the sacrifices and death of Jesus, and it is about the fact of Jesus living in a human body, His own and in ours, and it is about the plan of salvation, and it is about the condesension of God, and about our revealing God in our hearts and revealing God to others through us. This is why the sanctuary service is so complicated, so big, and so important.

The simplest presentation of the sanctuary service is the wilderness tabernacle. All the other presentations keep adding and developing various themes. (Just to give you a brief list of the sanctuaries there is the wilderness tabernacle, Solomans temple, Ezekiels temple, the temple that was built in Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, and Zechariah, then there is Herods temple, then the temple of Jesus in His human flesh, the temple of the church, the temple of the individual, and the heavenly temple in the new Jerusalem. We could also throw in the temple of the garden of Eden and Noahs ark as well)

Does this make any sense so far.

David, maybe I should have said that much I have heard about the sanctuary in the past (for I hadn't studied it much for myself, either, until in the past two to three years) left me confused. I think what made it complicated to me, I have heard ministers saying it was so important to us, but, I never quite knew why. Just tonight, I asked my husband, to get another's opinion, what did he think is going on in heaven, is it necessary, and do we have any part to play in it, or can we just leave it all with Jesus, not be concerned about it. His first thought was that we could leave it to Jesus, that was his first thought.......then, we got to discussing why it just MIGHT be important that we are involved in it. I think his thinking began to change!

Mrs. Moss, when you say you have never studied the Sanctuary before, I don't think you are in the minority of SDAs. But, could you tell us, just what do you know about any or all of it, so we can have a starting point?

And, Zyph, those were interesting questions, esp. about the female sacrifices. My mind at once went to the illustration of the red heifer in Deut. 21:1-9. I cannot prove this to be a fact, and if anyone knows any quotes ,references from the SOP, I would like them very much. I have looked everywhere I know for them. Anyway, this comes from the book, "the Cross and its Shadow," by Stephen Haskell. I know he was one of the somewhat younger pioneers, and worked with all of the others. In fact, sometime after the death of Jas. White, Stephen asked Ellen white to marry him, which she kindly declined. So, I know that they knew each other well, whether she agreed with him on these subjects or not, I cannot say.

But, p.146-151 we find the "red heifer." why a "heifer?" I was looking for that, but could not find it. First, we wonder why there was a need for this offering. Why was the place of death, or/and the people who touch the dead considered unclean until purified? this I read: "this was to impress the people with the terrible nature of sin. that death came as a result of sin and was a representation of sin.Jas.1:14,15 the heifer was to be red, without one spot, without blemish, representing Him "who knew no sin."2Cor.5:21 to have always been free (not yoked) Just so, there was no power, only that of supreme heavenly love, that forced Christ toward the cross of Calvary.Jn.3:16

The red heifer was offered without the camp, showing that Christ died for all nations, tribes and people.Heb.13:12,13

The first time I read this next paragraph I cried:"The condescension and love of the Lord is wonderful. Lest some poor forlorn, discouraged soul should think he was not worthy to accept the offered sacrifice, the red heifer was not only taken without the camp, but to a rough valley, so rocky and utterly worthless that it had never even been plowed. No one had ever attempted to cultivate it; and yet here was the place chosen to sprinkle the blood of that special offering which typified Christ in a particular sense...."

I was sent through the mail a little book called "The Sanctuary Made Simple" by Lawrence Nelson and he does a good, but yet simple study on the sanctuary. He mentions how the sanctuary on earth teaches us how God solves the sin problem from the Heavenly Sanctuary. How the sin has to be separated from the sinner.

quote:

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Great Controversy
Page 489.1}

The intercession of Christ in man's behalf in the sanctuary above is as essential to the plan of salvation as was His death upon the cross. By His death He began that work which after His resurrection He ascended to complete in heaven.

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In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Avalee ]

Leviticus 4:27
And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;

Leviticus 4:28
Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.

Leviticus 4:29
And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

We have sinned..broken one of God's Laws..and we know what the penalty of sin is: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death. But our loving God does not want us to die so He has provided a way for us to become as if we had never sinned....The Holy Spirit convicts me of my sin, I repent and ask for forgiveness..believing in Christ as my Savior. I have to follow this divine plan if I want to be forgiven and have my sin separated from me.

Leviticus 4:31
...priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

In very simple terms here is 3 steps that are taken for the sin to be separated from the sinner:

1. A lamb must be brought to the court of the sanctuary as a sacrifice.(and not just any lamb..has to be without blemish)

The sinner must place HIS hands on the head of the lamb and confess his sin, thus transfering his sins to the lamb..a substitute.

3. The sinner then takes the life of the innocent lamb..taking the lamb's life for his sin instead of dying for his own sin.

4. The blood is then caught in a bowl and the priest takes the blood into the sanctuary's holy place and it is sprinkled before the veil of the sanctuary.

How hard it must have been for Adam to take the life of that first sacrifice?

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: Avalee ]

Then God poured out His Spirit on Bezaleel and Aholiab, and various other peoples, to give them the skills necessary to build the intricate structure of the sanctuary. This is one of the OT displays of the granting of spiritual gifts. So another component of the sanctuary service is the presence and willingness to use the spiritual blessings granted by God. Exodus 36-39

I would be more inclined to just say that all of the different kinds of sacrifices pointed to Jesus; but not all of them "were Jesus."

DA.029.002
"As they departed from God, the Jews in a great degree lost sight of the teaching of the ritual service. That service had been instituted by Christ Himself. In every part it was a symbol of Him; and it had been full of vitality and spiritual beauty. But the Jews lost the spiritual life from their ceremonies, and clung to the dead forms. They trusted to the sacrifices and ordinances themselves, instead of resting upon Him to whom they pointed. In order to supply the place of that which they had lost, the priests and rabbis multiplied requirements of their own; and the more rigid they grew, the less of the love of God was manifested. They measured their holiness by the multitude of their ceremonies, while their hearts were filled with pride and hypocrisy."

As the Scriptures further explain it: Psalms 77:13 "Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?"

The topic of the red heifer is used as an example of methods used to uncover what the Prophets explained about the Sanctuary service.

First : praying for God’s Spirit & guidance, and tutorship, and directions in which way to go, locate & compile direct Bible Texts upon the topic.
Second : locate & compile indirect Bible Texts and references upon the topic.
Third : locate & compile direct SOP quotes & references upon the topic.
Fourth : locate & compile indirect SOP quotes & references upon the topic.

Then comes the work of reading over the compiled materials, mentally digesting, praying & meditating, and asking God to reveal how to use this information to help and bless and minister to others with.

Remember: The Sea of Galilee has inlets and outlets and supports live in it & around it, the Dead Sea only has an inlet and no outlet and so concentrates it's treasures of minerals as to become fatal to all life. All Learning from the God of Scripture & SOP,is built for sharing. If it is not worth sharing, it's not worth learning. In fact it might not come from the God of Scripture & SOP.

Religious talk about talk, that does the speaker & hearer no good, probably wasn't inspired for that purpose, or from that source.

I compiled 18 & 1/2 pages of Bible & SOP relating to the red heifer - directly & indirectly & applications for modern Israel (The Remnant). I won't promise to post it, I'll have to think about first. Context takes up lots of those pages, and no new understandings are uncovered, but it does explain why's and wherefores. if I post it I will have to add all the ubb codes & seperate it into much smaller parts.

[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: Edward F Sutton ]

So we have found that God has given the directive "Let them make me a sanctuary that I may dwell among them." Exodus 25:8. In addition He gives al the instructions about how to do this. Then the people have to have enough of a converted heart to want to give, then they have to receive the spiritual gifts in order to make and prepare. The next step is to build the sanctuary. The sanctuary is a symbol of a place(s), an event,a process, and a body. John 1:14; Hebrews 10:5-9

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Here's an idea, how about putting the study in finished form in the Library as a resource. Then abridging the study with comments added, to post here & a link added to easily access the original from this thread. What do folks think of the idea ?

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Edward F Sutton ]

In Exodus 40 it appears that Moses set the sanctuary up and then God came and blessed this device. He came in, covered the tent and then filled the tabernacle with His glory. Exodus 40:34-35

Somewhere in the sequence Moses dedicated Aaron and his sons. In Exodus 40 and Leviticus 8 we have a discription of the initial rites of the sanctuary. The priests came in were washed (baptism) were anointed (baptism of the Holy Spirit) and covered with garments (acceptance of the righteousness of Christ.)