Most Adventists seem to think that the prophetic gift will not exist in the end time church apart from the writings of Ellen White. The thinking is that there were no prophets after the death of the Apostles, until Ellen White, and there will be none after her.

Really? Church history records that under the inspiration of the spirit the saints prophesied after the death of the Apostles. For example, accurate prophetic pronouncements were one of the things the persecuted Covenanters of Scotland were known for.

What about scripture? When Paul admonishes the Corinthians to pray for spiritual gifts, does he exclude prophesy. Just the opposite!

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Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather [especially] that ye may prophesy. ICorinthians 14:1

14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. ICorinthians 14:31

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. ICorinthians 14:39

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Apparently some in Paul's day were discouraging speaking in tongues. Today, prophesy is discouraged. Interesting.

But aren't we the church with the Elijah message? Elijah started the schools of the prophets. Prophecy is something to be encouraged, something to be taught and nurtured. When Joshua gave Moses the report that some were prophesying in the camp and asked him to make them stop, Moses said, on the contrary, I wish to God that all his people were prophets!!

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And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, [and] that the Lord would put his spirit upon them! Numbers 11:29

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[ March 30, 2002: Message edited by: Mark Shipowick ]

"...would God that all the Lord's people were prophets, and that the Lord would put His Spirit upon them." Numbers 11:29

"Thus the message of the third angel will be proclaimed. As the time comes for it to be given with greatest power, the Lord will work through humble instruments, leading the minds of those who consecrate themselves to His service. The laborers will be qualified rather by the unction of His Spirit than by the training of literary institutions. Men of faith and prayer will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God gives them..." GC 606

Prophet? In what sense? Like Paul or John? Ellen White was more like Paul than like John. Do we need another prophet like Ellen White? What would they say that she hasn't already said? And do we need another prophet like John? Do we need more symbolic messages portraying the future?

I'm just asking questions. I don't pretend to have the answers.

Paul and John were not only prophets, they were also apostles. As apostles, they were the foundation stones of the early church.

The prophetic gift ranks below apostleship. Whereas apostleship indicates leadership and authority in doctrinal matters effecting the entire body of the church, the prophetic gift is often more of a local matter, bringing comfort to the saints. Philip's four daughters seem to have had just the prophetic gift.

I'm thinking more along those lines when I ask the question of whether the prophetic gift is still alive. Another example of just the prophetic gift would be the many young men from the different schools of the prophets who came to meet Elijah on the day he was translated, all of them supernaturally aware that he would be taken from them shortly.

But will there also be end-time apostles? Aren't the gifts irrevokable, Mike? I'm quite confident there will be apostles because we're told that tremendous new truths will come to us. We need the gift of apostleship because the times require the insight of a John and the decisiveness of a Paul.

Personnally its hard for me to imagine the 144,000 with only a limited number of the gifts. If apostleship was granted with the early rain, how could it be withheld at the more abundant latter rain?

Then it would appear that you have answered your own question.

I can't tell from your comments what you think Greg.

This area scares most of us. How many SDA's are praying 'earnestly' for the prophetic gift? But shouldn't we be?

This is interesting topic. But, frankly, For most part, this church has not heeded the prophet has given to this church.

Mark, you're right. The prophetic gift would certainly be helpful at times. I'm just not sure how it would help me personally? I can't think of any way in which my life would be improved if a prophet lived in my area. We have so much truth recorded in the Bible and the SOP which has not been properly appreciated that I can't imagine God sharing more? Do you have any suggestions?

The Testimonies were given to help us know how to apply simple Bible truths to our lives. God determined that we needed more of the gift of prophecy to help us and assist us in our understanding of truth. We could use it now to assist us again. We have lots of truth but unless the Spirit opens our minds (Luke 24:44-45; John 20:22) we can look at it, read it, and still not understand it enough to put it into action.

Maybe we need a prophet to explain the truth about conversion and rebirth?

Speaking about the gift of prophecy in the church today, Morris Venden writes:

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Certainly Ephesians 4:14 is very meaningful here: “that we . . . Be no more children, tossed to and fro. . . [by] every wind of doctrine”. God had a specific purpose for giving us the gift called the gift of prophecy. He gave it to guide and unify the church. In the history of the Christian church, including the Old Testament, there were prophets available when the church was close to God: and when the church wasn’t close to God, the voices of the prophets ceased. That’s a very interesting trend!. . . . Sometimes we say in the Adventist Church that we have the gift of prophecy. No, we don’t. We had the gift. We used to have it. The gift of prophecy is a present-tense thing, not a past-tense thing. Think about that carefully. This is biblically true. So the absence of spiritual gifts - all of them - really says something to us about our need for revival. Morris Venden God Says, But I Think pages 57 and 58.

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Morris Venden is said to have said:

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In the history of the Christian church, including the Old Testament, there were prophets available when the church was close to God: and when the church wasn’t close to God, the voices of the prophets ceased.

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Is this actually true?

What was the state of the church when Elijah was a prophet?

I think it is nice that MV said things. I think that the basic issue is "do we want the prophet to guide us or do we think we can handle things on our own intellect?" I personally believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the gifts that God longs to give us. Most of us tend to ignore what God's prophet has said. The SOP has said that the last great attack would be to attempt to nullify the SOP. I think he is doing a great job. We certainly have a need for a prophet and it will be interesting to see how God attempts to solve our need and to see how we will treat the prophet when he or she arrives. Always, God has sent a prophet to work with His people. God does not change so the gift will resurrect. We will then see if we will change to embrace the gift.

Hi guys,
I had built this earlier & saved it in WordPerfect & forgot about it. Whoops.

Don't forget the Eskimo prophet or the little bushman in Africa.(see LLT website for history)

Prophets in the Bible are not always of the same stature in their scope of mission or breadth of message.

Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles: (works & words kept in Scripture to guide till Jesus Comes again.)
Agabus the local prophet: (works & words largely hidden from view.)

Acts 21:
10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul’s girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Moses leader out of Egypt:(sent & trained from childhood to lead Israel {overcomers} to the Promised Land.)

John the Baptist: (sent & trained to prepare a people to receive Christ @ His First Coming.)
Matthew 11:
7 ¶ And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses.
9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Elijah : ( sent to reform a backslidden nation to prepare the way for the lineage of Jesus, in the fullness of time.)

EGW: Notice the similarity to EGW’s mission - to Paul, Moses, Elijah, John the Baptist. Will another come of that stature of mission ? No evidence of that in the published SOP, or Scripture.

We as a people were supposed to finish the work before the American Civil War. See 1844 era {Ev 695.3, EGW would have been alive to lead till Jesus came.

Will other minor, local prophets come, possibly. Since the Eskimo prophet and the little bushman in Africa came in the 20th Century. How many even know about them ?

If any claim to have messages they will have to face the scrutiny of Scripture & SOP. 1 Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Since EGW was a prophet & her work involved more than commonly associated with a prophet, what the Holy Ghost revealed through also becomes a bench-mark to test “new messengers” by.

Not a difficult chore for God, but impossible for phonies.

Maybe we need a prophet to clarify certain unresolved issues, i.e., the ordaination of women, divorce, remarriage, and the truth about conversion. Anybody and everybody can quote the Bible and the SOP to prove their point. So maybe it's high time for a new prophet or two or three?

Yes, I think we do need a prophet to help us. We didn't grow when we had the prophet among us and hopefully in this generation we would cherish the gift if it were to walk among us again. We could use some help to get some of these issues solved and settled. But I am sad to say that most people would ignore it and that is one of the reasons that it is not as manifest as it has been in the past. But when the shaking is finishing we will be in a state to praise God for His gracious gift and all the other gifts will follow.

I'm glad to see people are willing to entertain the idea. I hope a large number are also willing to take the admonition "earnestly desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy" at face value. Elijah wasn't satisfied with one or two. He wanted schools full of them.

It would be nice if we had schools of the prophets today. I suppose that seminaries are the general idea but I think that the book Education and Prophets and Kings would create schools that would look and sound significantly different than what we have now. But the same issue would be present and that would be would we, the church, listen to sons of the prophets? Or would we pat them on the head, say that they were sincere and then ignore them?

I wonder if the shaking can happen without a prophet to solve and settle our unresolved issues, especially the truth about conversion? Since both liberals and conservatives alike disagree among their respective groups what is the truth about rebirth - can we really expect the shaking to happen? What would shake the church if we don't have the truth about conversion?

As God continues to develop our thinking and experience sooner or later people will be shaken out. The shaking out is occurring right now and is occurring on this board. Opposing concepts are developed and then presented and each person will read and then decide what they are to do with these thoughts. Their decisions will either bring them closer to Jesus or farther away. That is a shaking.
A true prophet would initiate a major shaking in the church today. We would no longer be able to hide behind political correctness and niceness. Just like the people wanted to stone Moses so they would want to stone the prophet or draw closer to the truth and to Jesus. The "middle ground" would disappear and the shaking will have accomplished its purpose.

Amen! And yet it is very sad when members refuse the truth as it is in Jesus because it cuts across one of their favorite sins. I do not look forward to the major shaking EGW was shown in vision. But on the other hand I realize it must come before Jesus can return. But... God help us!

Let us pray that we get shaken before probation closes. Let us pray that we get shaken in and not out! "For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel(the SDA church) among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the LEAST GRAIN fall upon the earth." Amos 9:9