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Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
#91664
09/03/07 06:14 AM
09/03/07 06:14 AM
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OP
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I had some time. Hope you don't mind me starting the topic this week. Here is the link to the Sabbath School lesson study and discussion material: http://ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/07c/less10.html (NIV) http://ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/07c/less10kjv.html (KJV) http://ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/07c/less10nkjv.html (NKJV)
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: crater]
#91678
09/03/07 11:08 PM
09/03/07 11:08 PM
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SDA Active Member 2014 Retired Pastor
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What kind of a prophet was Nathan?
Last edited by Johann; 09/03/07 11:09 PM.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: Johann]
#91682
09/04/07 12:59 AM
09/04/07 12:59 AM
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: crater]
#91690
09/04/07 01:55 PM
09/04/07 01:55 PM
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David pronounced judgement on himself. 2 Sam 12: 5, 6. This was fulfilled in the death of four of his sons. Bathsheba lost the one child.
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: crater]
#91697
09/04/07 04:28 PM
09/04/07 04:28 PM
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David pronounced judgement on himself. 2 Sam 12: 5, 6. This was fulfilled in the death of four of his sons. Bathsheba lost the one child. Does this lesson deal with the relationship between forgiveness and the consquence of sin?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: crater]
#91702
09/04/07 10:10 PM
09/04/07 10:10 PM
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Crater,
You touched an important point.
"David had committed a grievous sin, toward both Uriah and Bathsheba... Though there would be found none in Israel to execute the sentence of death upon the anointed of the Lord, David trembled, lest, guilty and unforgiven, he should be cut down by the swift judgment of God. But the message was sent him by the prophet, 'The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.' Yet justice must be maintained. The sentence of death was transferred from David to the child of his sin. Thus the king was given opportunity for repentance; while to him the suffering and death of the child, as a part of his punishment, was far more bitter than his own death could have been. The prophet said, 'Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die'" (PP 722).
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: Rosangela]
#91704
09/05/07 04:42 AM
09/05/07 04:42 AM
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I mean, he was not a canonical prophet (nothing he wrote was included in the biblical canon), but it's interesting that he brought a message of rebuke to a canonical prophet. Yes I agree, that is interesting. Apparently like some of the other OT prophets, Nathan didn't take up the pen and write, yet some of his spoken words were recorded in scripture.
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: crater]
#91705
09/05/07 09:14 AM
09/05/07 09:14 AM
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I mean, he was not a canonical prophet (nothing he wrote was included in the biblical canon), but it's interesting that he brought a message of rebuke to a canonical prophet. Yes I agree, that is interesting. Apparently like some of the other OT prophets, Nathan didn't take up the pen and write, yet some of his spoken words were recorded in scripture. Neither did Jesus. Is He canonical? He wrote in the sand, but we do not have the words He wrote.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: crater]
#91708
09/05/07 12:40 PM
09/05/07 12:40 PM
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Apparently like some of the other OT prophets, Nathan didn't take up the pen and write, yet some of his spoken words were recorded in scripture. In fact, he produced writings (1 Chron. 29:29, 2 Chron. 9:29), but they apparently weren't included in the canon. So he and other prophets, like Gad, Ahijah, and Iddo are literary but non-canonical prophets. Ellen White is also included in this category. The fact that a non-canonical prophet brought a message of God to a canonical prophet shows that there are no degrees of inspiration or authority.
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: Rosangela]
#91715
09/05/07 04:59 PM
09/05/07 04:59 PM
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Yet justice must be maintained. The sentence of death was transferred from David to the child of his sin. Does this mean that the sentence of death, in general, can be passed around?
By God's grace, Arnold
There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: asygo]
#91722
09/05/07 08:15 PM
09/05/07 08:15 PM
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Yet justice must be maintained. The sentence of death was transferred from David to the child of his sin. Does this mean that the sentence of death, in general, can be passed around? This is a good question, Arnold. Did the young child become David´s savior? A substitute or a peace offering?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: Daryl]
#91730
09/06/07 01:49 AM
09/06/07 01:49 AM
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When I was a youngster a medical doctor had utmost authority. This has changed.
I noticed at 3ABN that the "President" yielded a final authority on most issues - when I was working there.
Did any woman living under king David dare not yielding to his wishes? Didn't the king have absolute power over his subjects? She might not have been unfaithful to her husband if it had been anyone else, but wasn't the king just like a god to her?
Just asking. . .
Last edited by Johann; 09/06/07 01:51 AM.
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: Daryl]
#91731
09/06/07 06:06 AM
09/06/07 06:06 AM
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We not only need to focus on what David, the king did, but also on what Bathsheba, the then wife of Uriah, did.
Why did she come in to him?
Wouldn't you say that it takes two to tangle? My observance of scripture as well as Ellen's writings; It is David's sin, that is the focus. I failed to find any condemnation toward Bathsheba. "David had committed a grievous sin, toward both Uriah and Bathsheba, and he keenly felt this. But infinitely greater was his sin against God." Patriarchs and Prophets (1890), page 722, paragraph 1 Why did she come? She was summoned by the king. As far as two to tango. One person held all the power. A bit lopsided, "dance"? "His crime in the case of Uriah and Bath-sheba was heinous in the sight of God." Spiritual Gifts. Volume 4A (1864), page 86, paragraph 2 "As time passed on, David's sin toward Bathsheba became known, and suspicion was excited that he had planned the death of Uriah. The Lord was dishonored. He had favored and exalted David, and David's sin misrepresented the character of God and cast reproach upon His name. It tended to lower the standard of godliness in Israel, to lessen in many minds the abhorrence of sin; while those who did not love and fear God were by it emboldened in transgression. Conflict and Courage (1970), page 179, paragraph 2 I find the following statement of Ellen to show how far reaching the sin of David has effected the cause of God. His crime in the case of Uriah and Bath-sheba was heinous in the sight of God. A just and impartial God did not sanction or excuse these sins in David, but sends a reproof, and heavy denunciation by Nathan, his prophet, which portrays in living colors his grievous offense. David had been blinded to his wonderful departure from God. He had excused his own sinful course to himself, until his ways seemed passable in his own eyes. One wrong step had prepared the way for another, until his sins called for the rebuke from Jehovah through Nathan. David awakens as from a dream. He feels the sense of his sin. He does not seek to excuse his course, or palliate his sin, as did Saul; but with remorse and sincere grief, he bows his head before the prophet of God, and acknowledges his guilt. Nathan tells David that 87
because of his repentance, and humble confession, God will forgive his sin, and avert a part of the threatened calamity, and spare his life. Yet he should be punished, because he had given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme. This occasion has been improved by the enemies of God, from David's day until the present time. Skeptics have assailed christianity, and ridiculed the Bible, because David gave them occasion. They bring up to Christians the case of David, his sin in the case of Uriah and Bathsheba, his polygamy, and then assert that David is called a man after God's own heart, and if the Bible record is correct, God justified David in his crimes. Spiritual Gifts. Volume 4A (1864), page 86, paragraph 2
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: crater]
#91733
09/06/07 06:27 AM
09/06/07 06:27 AM
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In reading about conflict with Absalom, I discovered that, an important member of David's court was a wily political leader named Ahithophel, the thing is, he was the grandfather of Bathsheba. "Ahithophel is among the conspirators with Absalom." Again David was forced to recognize in his calamities the results of his own sin. The defection of Ahithophel, the ablest and most wily of political leaders, was prompted by revenge for the family disgrace involved in the wrong to Bathsheba, who was his granddaughter. Patriarchs and Prophets (1890), page 735, paragraph 3
Last edited by crater; 09/06/07 02:14 PM. Reason: grammar
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: asygo]
#91734
09/06/07 12:14 PM
09/06/07 12:14 PM
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Does this mean that the sentence of death, in general, can be passed around? I think God, who instituted the death penalty, had the authority to alter the rules which regulated it. This is a good question, Arnold. Did the young child become David´s savior? A substitute or a peace offering? Not David’s savior, but David’s punishment, and it was worse than a personal capital punishment could have been. “While to him the suffering and death of the child, as a part of his punishment, was far more bitter than his own death could have been" (PP 722).
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: Rosangela]
#91735
09/06/07 01:18 PM
09/06/07 01:18 PM
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My observance of scripture as well as Ellen's writings; It is David's sin, that is the focus. I failed to find any condemnation toward Bathsheba. I read an article by Dr. Richard Davidson (chair of OT studies at the Andrews seminary) who came to the same conclusion you have, on the basis of Scripture (and also concluded that EGW saw it the same way). There's quite a lot of clues in the Hebrew; it was an interesting article.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: Tom]
#91738
09/06/07 04:13 PM
09/06/07 04:13 PM
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Hey Tom, thanks for the clueing me in on the article. I just did a search, found, and read the article; Did King David Rape Bathsheba? A Case Study in Narrative Theology. I think this must be the one that you are referring to. I found it an interesting article as well. First he gives his "Narrative Analysis of 2 Samuel 11-12" then follows it with, "The Narrative of David and Bathsheba in the Adventist Tradition" and finally Conclusion. Interesting, that Dr. Richard M. Davidson points out that "Ellen White, in harmony with the portrait that has emerged from our close reading of Scripture, clearly implicates David in his grievous sin against the innocent victim Bathsheba." He points out that Ellen stands out from the "prevailing trend of mostly-male interpretations of the Bathsheba-David narrative in her generation." This includes the SDA BC. The Narrative of David and Bathsheba in the Adventist Tradition
Seventh-day Adventist commentators, like many other Christians in the history of interpretation, have not been immune from placing at least part of the blame upon Bathsheba in the narrative of 2 Sam 11-12. For example, the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary states: “There is no indication that David’s messengers took Bath-sheba by force. Bath-sheba was beautiful, and she was not beyond temptation. Possibly she was flattered by the overtures made to her by the king, and yielded herself to David without resistance.”[35]
However, there is an exception to this line of Adventist interpretation implicating Bathsheba. Nineteenth-century Adventist interpreter Ellen White, standing over against the prevailing trend of mostly-male interpretations of the Bathsheba-David narrative in her generation, unequivocally points the finger of guilt solely at David, and not Bathsheba, as the one who committed great injustice and sinned against Bathsheba just as surely as he did against Uriah her husband. In her various references to this OT event, White consistently presents the grievous sin of David as toward Bathsheba, not with her. According to White, Bathsheba is wronged by David, and not one word of condemnation goes toward Bathsheba, who is presented as the victim of David’s great injustice against her. Furthermore, White describes Bathsheba in her later life as David’s wife and Solomon’s mother not as a sinister person, but as one of the faithful remnant in David’s kingdom.
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: crater]
#91740
09/06/07 04:39 PM
09/06/07 04:39 PM
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I also find it interstesting as Davidson points out, that both Bathsheba's father and husband were part of David's intimate, "band of brothers", "listed among the select group of soldiers called David’s "Thirty Mighty Men"." 2 Samuel 23:13; 2 Samuel 23:34; 2 Samuel 23:39 (King James Version) He must have know these men very well. When he was told who she was, he would have know who's wife and daughter she was before he even sent for her. Yet he called for her anyway.
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: Rosangela]
#91772
09/07/07 08:53 PM
09/07/07 08:53 PM
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Bathsheba had to forgive David. This must have been very difficult for her. David used her. David killed her husband. Interestingly, many Christians express their inability to forgive David. Why was David forgiven so often, and not King Saul and others? Was DAvid more popular in spite of his wickedness?
"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
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Re: Lesson Study # 10 - David and Bathsheba: Adultery and AFTER
[Re: crater]
#91780
09/08/07 07:24 AM
09/08/07 07:24 AM
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Apparently David had four sons with Bathsheba, this seems to be more then with any other wife.
1 Chronicles 3 (King James Version)
1Now these were the sons of David, which were born unto him in Hebron; the firstborn Amnon, of Ahinoam the Jezreelitess; the second Daniel, of Abigail the Carmelitess:
2The third, Absalom the son of Maachah the daughter of Talmai king of Geshur: the fourth, Adonijah the son of Haggith:
3The fifth, Shephatiah of Abital: the sixth, Ithream by Eglah his wife.
4These six were born unto him in Hebron; and there he reigned seven years and six months: and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty and three years.
5And these were born unto him in Jerusalem; Shimea, and Shobab, and Nathan, and Solomon, four, of Bathshua the daughter of Ammiel:
6 Ibhar also, and Elishama, and Eliphelet,
7And Nogah, and Nepheg, and Japhia,
8And Elishama, and Eliada, and Eliphelet, nine.
9These were all the sons of David, beside the sons of the concubines, and Tamar their sister.
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