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Re: "My Grace is Sufficient for You"
#9190
04/13/02 05:11 AM
04/13/02 05:11 AM
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Charter Member Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Avalee wrote. Not a Substitute for the Law What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Rom. 6:15 {AG 144.1} It is the sophistry of Satan that the death of Christ brought in grace to take the place of the law. The death of Jesus did not change or annul, or lessen in the slightest degree, the law of ten commandments. That precious grace offered to men through a Saviour's blood, establishes the law of God. Since the fall of man, God's moral government and His grace are inseparable. They go hand in hand through all dispensations. {AG 144.2} Unquote. This verse is not saying that because we are not under the law, we might keep on sinning in the meaning of breaking the 10 commandments. It is saying, that since we are not under the law (to keep and obey the law that will judge us and condemn us if we break the law), we are not allow to live in SIN, that is to live for SELF since SIN is love for self that is against the love of God that seeks no self. By your thoughts, how can we sin in breaking the law of the 10 commandments if we are not under it, if we are not under it jurisdiction and have not the obligation to keep and to do it? As an American you are not under the jurisdiction of the Indonesian law, so am I, as an Indonesian I’m not under the jurisdiction of the American law. So, if you are not under the law, means you are not oblige to keep and do what the law says and will not be judge by this law and also not under it condemnation. You are under grace where God “will remember your sins and iniquities no more.” In His love James S.
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Re: "My Grace is Sufficient for You"
#9191
04/14/02 04:42 PM
04/14/02 04:42 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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If you were visiting America or lived in America you would be obligated to obey her laws. The law of God encompasses the entire Universe, thus everyone everywhere falls under its jurisdiction, and are obligated to obey it. How can you say God empowers us to obey the law therefore we are no longer under its jurisdiction?
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Re: "My Grace is Sufficient for You"
#9192
04/27/02 05:04 AM
04/27/02 05:04 AM
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Charter Member Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Mike. The bible clearly told us that believers are not under the law. The law still exist but they that live by faith in Christ and according to the Spirit are not under the law, to obey and do the letter of the law, because the Spirit in them will made them live in harmony with the intent of the law “love that seeks no self” so that they may love their fellow man. According to Romans 6:14 and Galatians 5:18; if you keep the law and obey it as a standard for living righteously, you are under the law jurisdiction, judgment and condemnation. And if some one is under the law, SIN will be his master or he is under dominion of SIN. This SIN is his nature or character that love for self, which stands against God’s love that seeks no self. Thus, all law keeper could never be justified by the law and stand righteous before God, because through keeping the law their SIN is revealed and become more sinful (Romans 3:19,20; 7:13). Christ died on the cross to redeem us from the wages of SIN (that is not our own fault), and through a life led by the Spirit, released us from the dominion of SIN, so that we might have “love of God” in our heart as our new character and made us FIT for heaven. This would never happen if you keep and obey the law, as SIN will be your master, dominate you and made you a slave of SIN. It is not Christ intention at all to order His believers to keep and obey the letter of the law and made the 10 Commandments an obligation to do. If this is the case, it is not a “life by faith”. If a believer still needs the law to rule him and supervise him, he is not living by faith. “The law is not of faith” and “whatever is not of faith is SIN”. To live by faith means we must focus our eye on Christ, who will lead our faith and bring it to perfection. By keeping and obeying the 10 Commandments, we have proved our self that we have no faith in Christ. And the Spirit could not work in us, as only those who live by faith will be sealed by the Spirit (Ephesians 1:13) and bore fruit of the Spirit, which is love. So, being under SIN, the fruits are only deeds of the flesh. In His love James S.
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Re: "My Grace is Sufficient for You"
#9193
04/28/02 03:53 AM
04/28/02 03:53 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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James, I think I finally understand what you're saying, and if you're saying what I think you're saying - then I agree with you. And here's what I think you're saying: Anyone who obeys the law outside a saving relationship with Jesus is a law breaker, because any so-called obedience generated apart from Jesus is tainted with selfishness, and really isn't obedience in the truest sense of the word. But anyone who maintains a vital connection to Jesus is in harmony with the principles of the law because all his obedience is the result of being in relationship with Jesus. But his experience is not technically "law keeping" because his obedeince is the fruit of faith and love, and not the law. Is that what you're saying?
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Re: "My Grace is Sufficient for You"
#9194
04/28/02 10:25 AM
04/28/02 10:25 AM
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Charter Member Active Member 2014
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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Very well put Mike..which is what we are all saying, although some might not read it that way..Everything must come from a saving relationship with Jesus. Without that nothing matters..it would be just a form of religion. And I might add a very unhappy form of religion. True happiness comes from that relationship with Jesus that is formed within. Praise God for His love to us.
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Re: "My Grace is Sufficient for You"
#9195
04/28/02 07:53 PM
04/28/02 07:53 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Avalee, thank you. Jesus is everything and all things. I love Him with all my heart.
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Re: "My Grace is Sufficient for You"
#9196
04/28/02 08:22 PM
04/28/02 08:22 PM
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Two of my favorite EGW passages on this subject: "Faith and works are two oars which we must use equally." -- Review & Herald, June 11, 1901. "The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted. The first is our title to heaven, the second is our fitness for heaven." -- Review & Herald, June 4, 1895. (both of these appear on the title page of Faith and Works)
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Re: "My Grace is Sufficient for You"
#9197
04/28/02 08:55 PM
04/28/02 08:55 PM
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Charter Member Active Member 2014
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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quote: Originally posted by John: Two of my favorite EGW passages on this subject:"Faith and works are two oars which we must use equally." -- Review & Herald, June 11, 1901.
John thank you so much for that Spirit of Prophecy quote. I have not read that before. What a wonderful illustration God has given us.
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Re: "My Grace is Sufficient for You"
#9198
04/29/02 12:15 PM
04/29/02 12:15 PM
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Charter Member Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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Mike. I am happy that you agree with my thoughts. I am sure that I'm not telling something that is against the gospel of Christ. It is difficult to explain some people that are so "law oriented." Even my family can't take my messages, but it is my duty and responsiblity to reveal to them the true gospel of Christ. If there is something we may still differ, it doesn't matter. I believe that we will all come to union of our faith "in Christ". In His love James S.
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Re: "My Grace is Sufficient for You"
#9199
04/29/02 01:25 PM
04/29/02 01:25 PM
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Charter Member Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
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John. Two of my favorite EGW passages on this subject: "Faith and works are two oars which we must use equally." -- Review & Herald, June 11, 1901. "The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted. The first is our title to heaven, the second is our fitness for heaven." -- Review & Herald, June 4, 1895. (both of these appear on the title page of Faith and Works Unquote. This will help me to explain the gospel of Christ to my family. It is true, that we are justified by faith but judge by works. Our faith in Christ accepts God’s free gift of “the righteousness of God apart from the law for those who has faith in Christ” (Romans 3:21), which is our title to heaven. But God’s judgment is based on our ‘works” or “deeds”, is our works the works of the flesh or is it the fruit of the Spirit from a life by faith? Only those who have fruit of the Spirit as the works of living by faith (faith that works by love) are granted to enter heaven, as they are FIT to live in the Kingdom of God where love that seeks no self is the law of heaven. Self-loving believers has no place in heaven, they are not FIT to stay in heaven, their works are just deeds of the flesh, and their faith is a death faith. All and all, it is not our “works” that saved us, but our faith, because these ‘works” are fruit of the Spirit, fruits of a life by faith, evidence of true faith. In His love James S.
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