2 Peter 1
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

What does "perfecting holiness" mean? Does it mean becoming less and less imperfect? or does it mean becoming more and more mature in the fruit of the Spirit?

Is it instanteous, or the work of a lifetime?

Or do you think the two happen simultaneously? That is, do you think the Bible and the SOP teach the Spirit of God empowers us to perfect holiness by laying aside our defects of character? In other words, is laying aside sin and perfecting holiness one and the same thing? or are they two separate aspects of salvation?

If we read 2 Cor 7:1 and 2 Peter 1:4 exactly the way they're written it is clear that the Holy Spirit first influences us to lay aside our moral defects of character and then we experience the miracle of rebirth. Our old man habits of sin must first die before we can be born again a new man in Christ Jesus. We cannot be both at the same time. "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Mat 6:24. "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom 8:9.

2 Cor 7:1 says "let us cleanse ourselves" and then we can begin the process of "perfecting holiness." By the way, it is important to notice that the promise involves perfecting "holiness." It does not involve becoming less sinful. Perfecting holiness has nothing to do with sin. Jesus is the best example of perfecting holiness. It has to do with maturing in the fruits of the Spirit. Perfecting holiness is perfecting "holiness," just like righteousness by faith is "righteousness" by faith. Neither have anything to do with sin.

And 2 Peter 1:4 says "having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." In other words, born again believers partake of the divine nature after the Spirit has influenced them to lay aside their old man habits of sin. It doesn't say we partake of the divine nature and then we will be able to crucify self. Rather it says "having escaped" - which is past tense. First the Spirit influences us to lay aside our imperfections and then we can start partaking of the divine nature to perfect holiness in the same way Jesus did.

How long does it take? The part about perfecting holiness is the work of a lifetime (including eternal life). But the part about the Spirit influencing us to cleanse ourselves from all our defects of character can happen in a matter of months, depending on how sincere and devoted we are. Jesus promised - "According to your faith be it unto you." Mat 9:29.

If you understand these texts in a different way, please explain.

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

Jesus Himself perfected holiness, thus it is very clear that it has nothing to do with sinning or gradually out growing known or unknown defective traits of character. Instead the Bible talks about born again believers living from "faith to faith" and from "glory to glory" and "grace for grace" - and not from sin to sin until we cease to sin.

It's an upward way, not a downward path. Self is first gradually laid aside (as fast as the Spirit leads) until we are born again, and then we begin growing in grace just like baby Jesus. It is plain to see that perfecting holiness has to do with maturing in the fruits of the Spirit "as a light that shineth more and more unto the perfect day." Prov 4:18.

Romans
1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

2 Corinthians
3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

John
1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

If this is true, then why doesn't the Bible and SOP make it clear? Please, would someone please show from the Bible or SOP this view of salvation and sanctification!

Sometimes I wonder if members and visitors on MSDAOL confuse temptation with sinning. But this need not be the case. Rightly understood being tempted is not sinning. First of all, it's not a sin to be tempted. Right!

Now, how can we tell the difference between being tempted and actually committing sin? Since temtpation begins as a sinful thought and/or feeling, how can we be sure we're not actually guilty of sin?

Again, it's not a sin to be tempted, and since temptation begins as a sinful thought and/or feeling the initial sinful thought or feeling is not a sin. But here's where I believe so many people fail to make the distinction between sin and temptation.

People assume they are guilty of sin because they have a sinful thought or feeling in their mind. When in reality it is only a temptation. It does not become a sin until we indulge it. Until then it is only a temptation. But many people think it is a sin to have a sinful thought or feeling in their mind, and they seem to forget that that's how temptation begins.

Based on this misunderstanding I believe people reject the truth about conversion and rebirth. They misidentify the presence of these tempting thoughts and feelings as a defect of character. And they also mistakenly assume that when they are perfect they will not experience tempting sinful thoughts and feelings.

To justify this obvious discrepancy, they conclude that it is not possible to be morally perfect now. Why? Because they are still experiencing sinful thoughts and feelings - which they believe constitutes a moral imperfection. It is this error that prevents them from experiencing the promises of perfection now. And I believe many of the MSDAOL members and visitors are guilty of this doctrinal error.

[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

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In Heavenly Places
Page 159, paragraph 6
Building with God

The precious graces of the Holy Spirit are not developed in a moment. Courage, fortitude, meekness, faith, unwavering trust in God's power to save, are acquired by the experience of years. By a life of holy endeavor and firm adherence to the right the children of God are to seal their destiny.

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I ran across this while doing a search on meekness.

What amazes me is how people can turn this quote around and make it say that it takes time for God to influence us to lay aside our unknown defects of character. I'll never understand how they can twist quotes like this in that way?

Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2 Samuel 22:33
God is my strength and power: and he maketh my way perfect.

1 Kings 8:61
Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.

Job 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Psalm 18:32
It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.

Ezekiel 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Luke 6:40
The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Corinthians 13:9
For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.

2 Corinthians 13:11
Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Colossians 4:12
Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Hebrews 13:21
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

James 3:2
For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

1 John 2:5
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

I am also including my web page I have started on thoughts..it is not finished yet as I am always adding to it. I even have to add this quote to it.

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Harnessing the Mind

All are free moral agents, and as such they must bring their thoughts to run in the right channel. Here is a wide field in which the mind can safely range. If Satan seeks to divert the mind to low and sensual things, bring it back again and place it on eternal things; and when the Lord sees the determined effort made to retain only pure thoughts, He will attract the mind, like the magnet, purify the thoughts, and enable them to cleanse themselves from every secret sin. "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:5). {2MCP 595.2}

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http://www.geocities.com/midnightcry1950/Thoughts.html

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Duty to Control Imagination

Few realize that it is a duty to exercise control over the thoughts and imaginations. It is difficult to keep the undisciplined mind fixed upon profitable subjects. But if the thoughts are not properly employed, religion cannot flourish in the soul.

The mind must be preoccupied with sacred and eternal things, or it will cherish trifling and superficial thoughts. Both the intellectual and the moral powers must be disciplined, and they will strengthen and improve by exercise.--CT 544 (1913)

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