Some say Jesus came forth from the Father so long ago that He is essential as eternal as the Father. But considering the nature of eternity what this means is the Father was alone for a very long time, for an eternity.

Is it true? Was there an eternity when the Father was alone, when Jesus did not exist? If Jesus is not as eternal as the Father is He qualified to be our Savior?

What does Christ's eternal pre-existence have to do with Him qualifying to be our Savior? I'm not seeing the issue here. Well, that might be a side point.

If there were a time when Jesus did not exist, say some time so long ago that we can't fathom it, would that have a practical impact on us? If so, how?

It seems to me that if Christ created all things, then He must have created space-time, so I wonder how there could be a time when He didn't exist, if time didn't exist. These are deep waters.

Another question that comes to mind is that those who believe that there was a time when Christ did not exist seem to invariably believe that the Holy Spirit is not a person. Is there a link here? Or is it possible to believe that the Holy Spirit is not a person, yet Christ has always existed. Or that there was a time when Christ did not exist, yet the Holy Spirit is a person. (I see a logical problem with this one).

TE: What does Christ's eternal pre-existence have to do with Him qualifying to be our Savior?

MM: If Jesus is "begotten" (as if it means something significantly different than created or procreated) He would be disqualified for reasons very similar to why holy angels are not qualified to be our Savior.

You're sentence is difficult to understand. I think what you are saying is that if Jesus were a creature, He would be disqualified on the same grounds as other creatures are disqualified.

Close. If Jesus were less eternal (i.e., begotten or procreated) than the Father, He would be disqualified to be our Savior for reasons similar (not the same) to why holy angels are not qualified.

Hello Mountain Man,

Does it then follow that you do not believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God?

For, contrary to what you have suggested would disqualify Christ as Saviour - a begotten Son - I believe this is the central reason He is qualified.

This is how I read John 3:16. God gave His only begotten Son. This means he had a Son to give, ..so believers might have everlasting life. How could we have everlasting life if we doubt God's gift of John 3:16? We would not be believers, but doubters.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." The gospel in one verse.

Do you have scripture or inspired evidence to prove that being begotten disqualifies Christ from being our Saviour, or is this an opinion?

Gordon

G: Does it then follow that you do not believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God?

MM: Not in the same sense you do. I believe Jesus is as eternal as the Father. Jesus was neither begotten (mitosis) nor procreated (meiosis). He has always been, has always existed, the same as the Father. Jesus has no beginning.

However, 2,000 years ago (or so) Jesus became the incarnate Son of God. He was begotten like you and me. Mary "begat" Jesus like my mother begat me. I use the word "like" because of the obvious dissimilarities.

In the same way Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of world, He is also the eternal begotten Son of God. Although Jesus did not die on the cross from the foundation of world, His sacrifice is eternal and therefore dates from eternity.

Whatever Jesus did, does, or will do is eternal in that He is not bound by space and time as we know it. As such, He always been the begotten Son of God. Because Jesus is eternal whatever will be has always been. Thus, that's how He can be referred to as the begotten Son of God even before His incarnation.

G: Do you have scripture or inspired evidence to prove that being begotten disqualifies Christ from being our Saviour, or is this an opinion?

MM: Scripture? I don't know. However, it is based on what God shared with Sister White about it. Here it is again:

MM, how are you getting from this text that Jesus Christ has to be as eternal as the Father?

Any being not equal to the Father cannot be as sacred as the Law and cannot, therefore, save sinners. Angels are not equal to the Father because they are created, they are not as eternal as the Father, they are not as sacred as the Law. The only way Jesus can be as sacred as the Law is if He is as eternal as the Father.

Why?

It seems to me the message from the text you quoted is that the angels could not atone for man because they were created beings, not one who created man. Christ, in unison with the Father, created man. So the qualification stems from His being the Creator, not from being co-eternal.