The following two Bible texts refer to the day-year principle in relation to time prophecies:

I have two questions:

1 - Are there any other Bible texts that substantiates the day-year principle in relation to time prophecies?

2 - Does this cover ALL the time prophecies?

Daryl,

I would have to give more thought to question #1, but #2 is easy to answer: the millennium is a time prophecy, but it is believed to be a literal thousand years rather than symbolic. If it were symbolic, it would represent 360,000 years. As a result, I think it safe to say that the year-day principle does not cover every time prophecy.

Using the 1,000 years (millennium) as an example, if the day-year principle doesn't cover all of the time prophecies, which the example shows that it doesn't, then how do we know when to apply it and not to apply it?

By the way, I think I heard Pastor Doug Batchelor give a third Bible text to substantiate the day-year principle, however, I can't remember what text he used.

What right have we to apply these texts to the time prophecies in Daniel and the Revelation?

Why not apply these texts to the time prophecies in Daniel and the Revelation?

Where do we get the permission?

What do you mean by that?

Where in the Bible does it say to apply the day-year principle to the time prophecies in Daniel and the Revelation?

Answering with the question, Where does it say we can't, assumes biblical approval isn't necessary, that absence of a prohibition is all that is required. This is a tenuous position.

So the question should be, why do we think we can use the day-year principle at all?

If there is evidence that someone inspired by God applied it to the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation then we would have the approval and authority we need. Is there any evidence Jesus, the author and originator of inspiration, did so?

I think using the day-year principle in relation to the 70 Week Prophecy should be enough to know that those two texts and possibly another one substantiates doing this.

So, if it works it must be the right approach?

Jesus associated Daniel’s prophecy with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Considering the time aspect of his prophecies it seems evident the day-year rule was applied. Otherwise, the time periods do not add up.

Daniel
8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake, How long [shall be] the vision [concerning] the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel
11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel
12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Matthew
24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mark
13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

GC 25
And the Saviour warned His followers: "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains." Matthew 24:15, 16; Luke 21:20, 21. When the idolatrous standards of the Romans should be set up in the holy ground, which extended some furlongs outside the city walls, then the followers of Christ were to find safety in flight. When the warning sign should be seen, those who would escape must make no delay. {GC 25.4}

Hmm, didn't the Romans use standards for the garison they had in Jerusalem? For the soldiers who crucified Jesus and jailed Paul?

There are two clues that help us discern that the day-year principle should be applied to a prophecy.
First, the time elements in the prophecy are often expressed in unusual ways:
2300 evenings and mornings, or evening-mornings (Dan. 8:14)
A time, two times and half a time (Dan. 7:25, 12:7).

Second, the word "years" is avoided. Either the word "days" (Rev. 11:3, 12:6), or "months" (Rev. 11:2, 13:5), or "weeks" (Dan. 9) is used, or the word "years" is disguised, like in Dan. 7:25, 12:7 mentioned above.

Thanx, Rosangela.

Thomas, did either of those times fulfill the prophecy in Daniel?

Does this following tell us anything about prophecy in general or prophecy specifically?

28"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe.

Yes, one of the purposes of prophecy is to encourage us to believe when it happens. But in the case of the Ninevites it was to their advantage to believe before it happened. The same thing applies to certain end-time prophecies.

What did you have in mind?

Because it is so that apocalyptic prophecy is one of the things in theology that divides christianity the most. And we know that division between diciples was never God's intention.

Is prophecy to blame for divisions?

In an attempt to get to the bottom of the question regarding the day-year principle, I am going to quote the following:

-----beginning of quote-----

PAGE 54. PROPHETIC DATES.--AN IMPORTANT PRINCIPLE IN PROPHETIC INTERPRETATION IN CONNECTION WITH TIME PROPHECIES IS THE YEAR-DAY PRINCIPLE, UNDER WHICH A DAY OF PROPHETIC TIME IS COUNTED AS A CALENDAR YEAR OF HISTORIC TIME. BEFORE THE ISRAELITES ENTERED THE LAND OF CANAAN THEY SENT TWELVE SPIES AHEAD TO INVESTIGATE. THE SPIES WERE GONE FORTY DAYS, AND UPON THEIR RETURN THE HEBREWS, FRIGHTENED AT THEIR REPORT, REFUSED TO GO UP AND OCCUPY THE PROMISED LAND. THE RESULT WAS A SENTENCE THE LORD PASSED UPON THEM: "AFTER THE NUMBER OF THE DAYS IN WHICH YE SEARCHED THE LAND, EVEN FORTY DAYS, EACH DAY FOR A YEAR, SHALL YE BEAR YOUR INIQUITIES, EVEN FORTY YEARS." NUMBERS 14:34. A SIMILAR METHOD OF COMPUTING FUTURE TIME IS INDICATED THROUGH THE PROPHET EZEKIEL. FORTY YEARS OF PUNISHMENT FOR INIQUITIES AWAITED THE KINGDOM OF JUDAH. THE LORD SAID THROUGH THE PROPHET: "LIE AGAIN ON THY RIGHT SIDE, AND THOU SHALT BEAR THE INIQUITY OF THE HOUSE OF JUDAH FORTY DAYS: I HAVE APPOINTED THEE EACH DAY FOR A YEAR." EZEKIEL 4:6. THIS YEAR-DAY PRINCIPLE HAS AN IMPORTANT APPLICATION IN INTERPRETING THE TIME OF THE PROPHECY OF THE "TWO THOUSAND AND THREE HUNDRED EVENINGS AND MORNINGS" (DANIEL 8:14, R.V.) AND THE 1260-DAY PERIOD, VARIOUSLY INDICATED AS "A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME" (DANIEL 7:25), THE "FORTY AND TWO MONTHS" (REVELATION 11:2; 13:5), AND THE "THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND THREESCORE DAYS" (REVELATION 11:3; 12:6). {GC 681.1}

-----end of quote-----

The above quoted is obviously affirming the validity of the day-year principle in relation to time prophecies in both Daniel and Revelation. It also includes the two Bible texts I have been asking about, namely Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6 bolded in the above quote.

It still doesn't answer my question in relation to whether or not this day-year principle should apply in relation to all time prophecies.

What I quoted from the Appendix of the GC by EGW was from what EGW said in page 54 of the GC (1911) which I am also now quoting below:

-----beginning of quote-----

Protestants now urge that the resurrection of Christ on Sunday made it the Christian Sabbath. But Scripture evidence is lacking. No such honor was given to the day by Christ or His apostles. The observance of Sunday as a Christian institution had its origin in that "mystery of lawlessness" (2 Thessalonians 2:7, R.V.) which, even in Paul's day, had begun its work. Where and when did the Lord adopt this child of the papacy? What valid reason can be given for a change which the Scriptures do not sanction? {GC 54.1}

In the sixth century the papacy had become firmly established. Its seat of power was fixed in the imperial city, and the bishop of Rome was declared to be the head over the entire church. Paganism had given place to the papacy. The dragon had given to the beast "his power, and his seat, and great authority." Revelation 13:2. And now began the 1260 years of papal oppression foretold in the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation. Daniel 7:25; Revelation 13:5-7. (See Appendix.) Christians were forced to choose either to yield their integrity and accept the papal ceremonies and worship, or to wear away their lives in dungeons or suffer death by the rack, the fagot, or the headsman's ax. Now were fulfilled the words of Jesus: "Ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake." Luke 21:16, 17. Persecution opened upon the faithful with greater fury than ever before, and the world became a vast battlefield. For hundreds of years the church of Christ found refuge in seclusion and obscurity. Thus says the prophet: "The woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and three-score days." Revelation 12:6. {GC 54.2}

-----end of quote-----

EGW, consequently, affirms the day-year principle in relation to the 1,260 day prophecy.

This, however, still doesn't yet answer my question, which is the reason why I created this topic in the first place.

Is not text written all in capital letters usually editors notes?

Not prophecy in itself, but apocalyptic prophecy which lends itself to many different and sometimes outlandish interpretations is, if not to blame, even a fertile growing ground for divisions.

The passages I quoted a few posts back make it clear to me that Jesus applied Daniel's prophecy in a way that requires the day-year principle.

Oops!

I must have somehow missed that one!

I will take another look, as that would be in addition and supportive of the two Old Testament references.

Would you guys believe it if I told you that I actually somehow missed reading a few posts in page 2 of this thread which were posted after my post there, which, in light of what was posted in page 3, makes sense?

Now to go and reply directly to some of those posts I missed in page 2 of this topic.

This was an excellent post containing information that I was actually looking for, however, it still doesn't answer my question in relation to whether or not the day-year principle can be used for other and all time prophecies.

Now to read Rosangela's post in relation to the question I am asking.

Now we are getting somewhere in relation to the question that I asked.

Again, how and why I missed this post is beyond my understanding!

In relation to what Rosangela posted, the wording of the following wouldn't use the day-year principle for the reason that it is expressed in years rather than in days, months, etc.

The prophecy in Daniel 4:25 mentions "seven times" but it is to be interpreted literally. Nebuchadnezzar did not live for 7 prophetic times.

True, but the word "times" is an unusual way to express "years," and it's used only in apocalyptic books. The point is not that it can never be used to mean literal years (as you pointed out, it's used with that meaning in Dan. 4:16, 23, 25, 32; also in 11:13). The point is that the term is used in day-year prophecies in order that the word "years" may be avoided, since it would be confusing to use it. You will notice that Revelation uses the plain word "years" in the prophecy about the millennium, but it uses the expression "a time, and times, and half a time" for the prophecy about the woman/church in the wilderness (Rev. 12:14), expressing the same time period alternatively with the expression "1260 days" in Rev. 12:6.
So, all these elements combined are, in my opinion, indicators that the period referred to should be understood symbolically and not literally.

Yes. I agree that the DYP should be used for the 2300-day & 1260-day prophecies.

But the answer to the thread's question and #2 in the OP is No.

Why? Why literally?

I believe this is the closest match for the question I have and believe it does apply here. A certain religion takes Daniel 4:25 and interprets it as 7 prophetic years (2520), then applies it in a way which seems disconnected to me.

Without getting into the appropriateness of such application, how can one say the seven times means 7 years, but 3.5 times means 1260 years? As pointed out, Nebuchadnezzar did not live that long, but what keeps the prophecy from having a dual meaning?

I don't believe it does, that it was specific for Nebuchadnezzar, but what is the principle, how does one explain it to others?

kland,

You may be interested in the topic of the "Longest Time Prophecy in Scripture -- 7000 Years" (in the New Light forum). The prophecy regarding Nebuchadnezzar is discussed in full detail within that thread.

As for the specific word "times" as used here, a "time" is a solar period. Most frequently, of course, we think of one year. But one day is also a time, for it is measured by the sun as well.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

The proof is in the fulfillment, isn't it? It was fulfilled within Neb's lifetime. The same can be said of the Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy. Not all prophecies, therefore, require the day-year application or interpretation.

The truth is, this prophecy requires both the day-year (one time being a day) and the day-millennium of 2 Peter 3:8. Read the aforementioned thread for the details.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.